Wales v Fiji

[TRF_Cymro]

Not this bloody residency thing again. Why is the country you were born in so important to most people? Surely, where you grow up has more influence on your identity? For instance, if someone is born in England, but moves to Wales at a young age, grows up to speak Welsh with Welsh friends, who should tell them that they are then English and not Welsh? Dispute the length of time it takes to gain residency by all means, but it's stupid to dispute it alltogether!

Back to the game. A also agree that the penalty try was unrightly given based on that particular scrum. However it should have been given on the previous scrummage. The ref probably bottled it initially, then decided he had to give it the next time. Overall, the ref handleing of the scrum was abismal, not sure what the totall scrummaging time ended up at, but about 3/4 of the way through the game it was standing at over 10mins. Wales obviously had the upper hand scrum time, the Fijians were constantly going down and wheeling the scrum. This is a general complaint though, it had no baring whatsoever on the final result. Gatland probably made too many changes, but even then the players he brought in are regional players, many of them with plenty of experience.

Mehlor Time made some good points on the last page, but I don't agree that Wales should have played their strongest team. We HAD to make some changes and see how some of the fringe players went. Injuries happen, and they certainly will during the world cup with SA, Samoa and Fiji in our group, so Gatland needed to run the rule over some players against a strong nation. As Gatland said in his post match interview, he found out alot about some players yesterday, and it sounded like it will cost some players their positions in future squads.

Gatland has already said that Matthew Rees will regain the captaincy next week against the All Blacks. Considering the performances of Deiniol and Gough, I'd have Ryan Jones on the bench to cover second row, with a starting backrow of Lydiate-Williams-Powell.

Agree, but what concerned me last night was with Gatland. Lost for answers and his public hanging of Ryan Jones was disgusting. Jones himself said that he was poor and blamed the defeat on himself yet he was not the only man on that pitch last night, it was the entire 22 that let themselves down last night. The attitude was not there and the simple thing was Fiji upped their game.

However back to Gatland, his hanging of Jones was one shocking and two completely unprofessional. Got to admit JT has done nothing in his last set of outings for Wales and to be honest Ryan Jones was not as poor as what is being made out to be. He conceded that penalty but up till then he was doing better than the rest. Public doing that sent a message to me that he has sort of lost the plot. Jones was not accountable for what happened last night, before him you could blame it on Bennett, Deiniol Jones and Ian Gough before Jones.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

@ Cymro: My point was towards players who only play in a different country for a couple of years like for instance Brad Barritt and Fourie. If someone grows up in a country where they have lived since they are 2 or 5 for instance, that's a different story.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Oh okay! No sorry I genuinely thought you said months ago you were 16 or 18 or something. No harm done.

Haha. In that case it's okay haha.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

@ Cymro: My point was towards players who only play in a different country for a couple of years like for instance Brad Barritt and Fourie. If someone grows up in a country where they have lived since they are 2 or 5 for instance, that's a different story.

He got the wrong man no need to jump at me! Case of mistaken identity!

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Haha. Apologies from my end then.

 

[Prestwick]

Lost for answers and his public hanging of Ryan Jones was disgusting. Jones himself said that he was poor and blamed the defeat on himself yet he was not the only man on that pitch last night, it was the entire 22 that let themselves down last night.

That was hilarious, Gatland banging on about not blaming anyone and reviewing videos and how nobody was to blame...except for that ******* Ryan Jones who will SWING from the nearest lampost! :lol:

Cymro: You know full well that we were talking about players who either had family in England or came here on residency!!! Get your facts right!!!!


















:lol:

 

[TRF_Cymro]

That was hilarious, Gatland banging on about not blaming anyone and reviewing videos and how nobody was to blame...except for that ******* Ryan Jones who will SWING from the nearest lampost! :lol:

Ye was a :lol: he singled out the one player that actually played well.

If McBryde and co, spent longer watching the game instead of the laptops then something might be done, serious case of wtf are the backroom staff doing.

 

[alexrugby]

Very good match played by both games

I like Wales mostly from European teams

But also admired by Fiji play, very aggressive in rucks and good passing and etc.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

Prestwick, that little George Bush thing is absolutely great.

 

[dullonien]

I didn't see Gatland's remarks on Ryan Jones. What was said, the program ended on BBC2 for me with no post match interviews other than Lydiates straight after the match. I know Gatland said straight away that he will be reinstating Rees as Captain next week, and I don't find anythign wrong with that. Although Ryan Jones played reasonably last night, his captaincy seemed non-existant. Although I maybe feel a little sorry for Ryan Jones, at least it finally looks like Gatlands woken up to the fact that Ryan's game has turned to ****. Jones is a lead by example captain, if he can't lead, he's got nothing!

 

[Prestwick]

Prestwick, that little George Bush thing is absolutely great.

Aaaahhh cha cha cha! Two Step Dubya!

 

[Draggs]

With Goughy and Deiniol being passed it, Ian Evans being injured all the time and Charteris never having it, who are our 3rd and 4th choice second rows?
Lou Reed?

Paul ***io did say he'd play if we were in "dire need"...

 

[TRF_Cymro]

With Goughy and Deiniol being passed it, Ian Evans being injured all the time and Charteris never having it, who are our 3rd and 4th choice second rows?
Lou Reed?

Paul ***io did say he'd play if we were in "dire need"...

To be honest Charteris has played better for Wales in recent times than Gough and Deiniol Jones has, you have to look at Ryan Jones and JT filling in there and the next generation in James Down!

 

[Draggs]

To be honest Charteris has played better for Wales in recent times than Gough and Deiniol Jones has

Agreed, but I still don't think he is international standard.

Ryan and JT both aren't second rows either.
Ryan is off form badly, and JT should not be near Millennium Stadium for a while.

Is James Down promising?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Lou Reed

Don't let cyRil see that! :lol:

I think Jones could be good there, he's had his best game for a while playing lock for the 'spreys

 

[TVH11]

well well what i thought almost came true. Was such a poor performance from the team, but all credit to Fiji for giving a good game. It was the same old same old story really, which is soooo annoying
I just never understood a coach's motives when playing the "pacific island" sides. Every 3rd test in the autumn, Wales field an extremely experimental side, with no real (set in stone) combinations - I know there was Hook and Bishop (ospreys partnership), but all in all there weren't any noticeable combinations, with past experience playing with each other.
I'm all for developing strength in depth, and playing an experimental side against the "so called smaller nations" is possibly the only opportunity Wales have seeing as there isn't an "A" side anymore. But when your "Strongest 15" hasn't won in 5 games, surely your main concern is to try and promote a winning mentality.... I knew that changing 9 or so players against a side we have past troubles with would be a big mistake, especially when some of the players playing were lacking game time at regional level, let alone at international stage .
Its so frustrating for me being a stubborn patriot, that I enjoyed watching england play today and last week, more than what i do wales. Its as if our styles of play have been switched... They are playing some great attacking rugby and martin johnson and his team should be applauded (it sucks to admit it )
ah well bring on the AB's i guess.... at least i've got a load of tries to look forward to

 

[Nate Dizzle]

OF course there are a lot of examples, I was just disproving Cyril's idiotic post saying NZ steal the pacific islands best players.

He's never walked through South Auckland or Porirua obviously hahaha

 

[dullonien]

Lou Reed may not have what it takes for international level, as Cyril and Cymro suggest, but tbh I'd prefer that he got a shot that playing Deiniol Jones who's proven time and time again that he certainly doesn't have what it takes! There's a reason Deiniol has played more Magners League/Celtic League games than anyone else, and that's because he's never been deemed good enough for Wales, so has always been in the Blues matchday 22.

Damien Welch has also had a decent run of games recently, and also seems to offer something a little different with his pace. Very early days for him though.

To be honest though, I still think Ian Evans and Charteris are the two second rows who will be back in the Welsh squad come the WC, if not the 6 nations. I can also see Ryan Jones being converted to a lock permanently. The Ospreys have already been quoted as saying they're gonna be playing him there in the near future more often, and considering his recent Welsh performaces Gatland may follow suit if the experiment works well in he long run. He's basically been playing a second-row kinda game for the last couple of years anyway, so may as well make room for the likes of Powell, Faletau, Ben Morgan, Turnbull etc. in the backrow who have actually been playing well in their positions for their regions recently.

I have no idea what has happened with Ryan Jones in the past two seasons, It's a sad thing really, because he really is a top bloke. But he should be left to find form in whatever position the Ospreys feel suits him best before he get's back in the Welsh 22. This is a very similar position to the one England found themselves in with Borthwick really. Martin Johnson tried to be faithfull to his captain, even though his form wasn't worthy, but he eventually dropped him from the squad and England really seem to have kicked on sinse then. Their change in performances hasn't been due to just dropping Borthwick, but because Johnson finally started picking the form players. This Welsh team is a little like the England one for the past few seasons, too many players there on reputation. However England had some real form players to come in, such as Foden at fullback. Who the hell have we got to come in for Lee Byrne who was woefull last night?

 

[smartcooky]

So how many tests have the All Blacks played in Apia, Suva and Nuku'alofa?

And do you know why that is genius, because the Pacific Island National Unions want it that way!! The last three matches between All Blacks and PI teams staged in NZ has seen the NZRU give the "after expenses" revenue to the PI unions.

Even after the stadium expenses, travel costs and accommodation expenses are deducted, The SRU/FRU/TRU can make four times as much from an All Blacks test staged in New Zealand than they can in the Islands, and would you like to know why? Well, lets take Samoa as an example.

1. The Samoan descendant population living in Auckland is over 160,000 (the population of Samoa itself is only 180,000!!), and they are on average a lot better off financially than their counterparts living in Samoa. Many of them send money back to their families in the Islands.

2. Apia Park has a capacity of only 15,000. Both Eden Park and North Harbour Stadium have much higher capacities. Even New Plymouth (where the last Samoa test was) has a bigger capacity.

3. Ticket prices in NZ are much higher they are in Apia. A typical test rugby ticket at Apia Stadium is about 20 Tala (NZ$11.80). If they charge more than that, people wont go because they simply cannot afford it.. A typical Test Match ticket for a All Blacks v Samoa test in NZ is about NZ$40 (74 Tala). Its a simple equation...

Apia.....15,000 tickets @ T$20 = T$....300,000 (maximum)
NZ.......20,000 tickets @ T$74 = T$ 1,480,000

Which one do you think the SRU would rather have?

4. Every NZ dollar that they make in NZ exchanges for about T$1.85

When you look at it financially....bigger attendance, paying more per attendee, with a very favorable exchange rate, you can see why they would rather play here.

In 2005, the NZRU offered to play the All Blacks v Fiji match in Suva. The FRU requested the match be played in New Zealand. Same in 2008 v Samoa.

You're right. The Celtic nations are a disgrace and you have single-handedly unveiled us for the frauds and charlatans we truly are.

I have single handedly done nothing of the sort. Wales, Scotland and Ireland have helped to vote down every assistance initiative put up by New Zealand, Australia and the Pacific Islands. They even voted against the iRB funding for the Pacific Nations Championship. This is common knowledge, and a simple fact. They have two votes each on the iRb council, Fiji Tonga and Samoa have one vote.... between them!! (in fact they have only part of one vote!!). How democratic is that?

Instead, we should adopt New Zealand's more subtle but direct approach of stifling their rugby development by just stealing all of their best players.

The "poaching" myth is just that, a myth, generated mostly by the British media. There are in fact just four members of the current touring party (Muliaina, Toeava, Rokocoko and Kaino) who were born in the Islands. All four moved to NZ with their parents (hardly their choice really), three of them when they were infants or preschoolers, and the other as a ten year-old. To suggest that the NZRU "poached" them because of their rugby talent would be to attribute a level of fortune-telling that would make them not out of place in the company of Sally Morgan!!

 

[Draggs]

Ben Morgan has been solid for the Scarlets, but will not be Welsh qualified until January 2012. Ryans form has dropped noticeably, so SR might be his only option.
A back row of Lydiate, Warburton and Powell/Delve would be handy next year.

World cup squad is restricted to 30, so it will probably have to be 4 second rows: Bradley, Alun Wyn, Ian and Luke perhaps.

Lou Reed may not have what it takes for international level, as Cyril and Cymro suggest, but tbh I'd prefer that he got a shot that playing Deiniol Jones who's proven time and time again that he certainly doesn't have what it takes! There's a reason Deiniol has played more Magners League/Celtic League games than anyone else, and that's because he's never been deemed good enough for Wales, so has always been in the Blues matchday 22.

Damien Welch has also had a decent run of games recently, and also seems to offer something a little different with his pace. Very early days for him though.

To be honest though, I still think Ian Evans and Charteris are the two second rows who will be back in the Welsh squad come the WC, if not the 6 nations. I can also see Ryan Jones being converted to a lock permanently. The Ospreys have already been quoted as saying they're gonna be playing him there in the near future more often, and considering his recent Welsh performaces Gatland may follow suit if the experiment works well in he long run. He's basically been playing a second-row kinda game for the last couple of years anyway, so may as well make room for the likes of Powell, Faletau, Ben Morgan, Turnbull etc. in the backrow who have actually been playing well in their positions for their regions recently.

I have no idea what has happened with Ryan Jones in the past two seasons, It's a sad thing really, because he really is a top bloke. But he should be left to find form in whatever position the Ospreys feel suits him best before he get's back in the Welsh 22. This is a very similar position to the one England found themselves in with Borthwick really. Martin Johnson tried to be faithfull to his captain, even though his form wasn't worthy, but he eventually dropped him from the squad and England really seem to have kicked on sinse then. Their change in performances hasn't been due to just dropping Borthwick, but because Johnson finally started picking the form players. This Welsh team is a little like the England one for the past few seasons, too many players there on reputation. However England had some real form players to come in, such as Foden at fullback. Who the hell have we got to come in for Lee Byrne who was woefull last night?