(Very) early thoughts on the 2017 Lions

[RedruthRFC]

Love to know where you're getting those numbers from. According to http://www.goalkickers.co.za/, since 2012 (they don't seem to go back further than then, and Halfpenny wasn't Wales' kicker prior to then anyway, only taking the difficult long-range shots at goal), halfpenny leads the kicking stats at international level with a 84.5% success rate. Barrett and Cruden don't appear in the top 10. Cruden has a percentage of around 73.4%, whilst Barrett has a rate of 69.5%.

Evidence that you can prove anything you want with statistics!

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Evidence that you can prove anything you want with statistics!

 

[Peat]

I watched twenty minutes of the spring test between England-Ireland - the twenty after half-time, where Ireland took the lead and then surrendered it - then most of the autumn test between us and Australia.

I can see a bit of what the critics are saying. You don't see a lot of Ford executing game management. Ben Youngs is the man doing most of the execution. Ford's undoubtedly communicating with him but when it comes to exiting territory? Ben Youngs. Running the close in game? Ben Youngs. Ford mostly gets on the ball when he's got a chance to hurt people. Now, its a small sample with England spending little time in the middle of the pitch and I know you'll see him managing the game there but its not the majority of what he does.

But then, what fly-halves are doing more game management than their scrum-halves? Not Sexton, that's for sure. He does more than Ford - because Ireland spend more time in the middle of the park in the sample, but I think possibly more in general - but Murray's on the ball more.

So... I dunno. I would like to see Ford really take games by the scruff of the neck more as the guy doing everything. But if Ben Youngs has his hand there and is doing great, its not gonna change. And he has demonstrated a lot of talent in executing the options. So yeah, I still think he's up there.


As for Sexton/fly-halves and injuries - I don't think he injures himself making the tackles (or that guys like Wilkinson or Carter did) but those collisions are all wear and tear. Sexton's routinely getting involved in some really big ones where he's the smallest guy there (and he's pretty big for a fly-half). Will be interesting to see where Farrell's career goes. Since by and large, the fly-half is the player you least want to lose, I'm increasingly okay with fly-halves not being big defenders as long the defence as a whole works. And since England concede less points when Ford's in charge than with Farrell - or Ireland do with Jackson in charge - I think it works.

 

[Jockstap]

O'Brien needs to start, ask any Southern Hemisphere rugby fan who is the best forward in NH rugby in my experience it's nearly always that SOB.

 

[Saint4805]

I wonder if Ford would be getting so much air time on here if he were playing in the Pro12 and for one of the other home nations.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I wonder if Ford would be getting so much air time on here if he were playing in the Pro12 and for one of the other home nations.

More to the point, if Ford was Irish and was playing for an Ireland team that had just done everything England had done, he'd likely be the first name on people's sheets to play at 10. The staggering thing is that, despite all the successes he has had for Bath and England, he gets barely a look in for the Lions.

 

[Blindside]

More to the point, if Ford was Irish and was playing for an Ireland team that had just done everything England had done, he'd likely be the first name on people's sheets to play at 10. The staggering thing is that, despite all the successes he has had for Bath and England, he gets barely a look in for the Lions.

He was only about 19 at the time of the last Lions Tour and this one hasnt been selected yet.

 

[Jockstap]

More to the point, if Ford was Irish and was playing for an Ireland team that had just done everything England had done, he'd likely be the first name on people's sheets to play at 10. The staggering thing is that, despite all the successes he has had for Bath and England, he gets barely a look in for the Lions.

I think it's more to do with Ireland having recently beaten the All Blacks, besides it's mostly English guys on here picking Farrell over Ford. Injuries permitting, when each 10 play to their full potential who would you pick? Sexton by a country mile for me, but I'm a biased Paddy.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

More to the point, if Ford was Irish and was playing for an Ireland team that had just done everything England had done, he'd likely be the first name on people's sheets to play at 10. The staggering thing is that, despite all the successes he has had for Bath and England, he gets barely a look in for the Lions.

Not if Ireland had played like England, Ford would be mussed less in the English set up than about three second rows, Dan Cole, Vunipola, both centres and Mike Brown. He's against Johnny Sexton who was the best player in the deciding match of the last Lions tour and is frankly a superior player and leader. Russell and Jackson are tearing it up in European club rugby while Ford is not.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Not if Ireland had played like England, Ford would be mussed less in the English set up than about three second rows, Dan Cole, Vunipola, both centres and Mike Brown. He's against Johnny Sexton who was the best player in the deciding match of the last Lions tour and is frankly a superior player and leader. Russell and Jackson are tearing it up in European club rugby while Ford is not.

Yet it's when Farrell was at the helm that England had their humiliating defeats. 30-3 to Wales, Farrell. Loss to Wales in the world cup? Farrell. Being obliterated by Australia? Farrell. When we toured Australia with Farrell starting at 10 it was a mess. On the flip side with Ford we have never lost to Australia and really only had a bad game against Ireland. I find it a bit too much of a coincidence to ignore this. Ford hasn't been tearing it up at Bath because Bath have been woefully mismanaged recently. We have lost lots of good players due to stupid decisions, had the whole Burgess fiasco and this year have played most games with a 2nd string team due to injuries. Add to that the problems with Ford Senior and the obvious effect it had on Junior and I don't think it's fair to judge Ford on Bath performances when the club as a whole as been in a terrible way. It's only just recovering.

Also Ford has been directly instrumental in a fair few of England's tries. I mean for god sake, some put Dan Biggar ahead of Ford at 10. How can that be justified apart from kicking and size? He is the least creative 10 with a **** attitude and yet is better rated than the 10 who has helped guide the side to all England have achieved. If anything Ford is being under-estimated by everyone due to going through a rough patch with Bath, in the same way England were under-estimated after having a bad patch in the world cup.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I thought you were joking in saying Jackson would be ahead of ford - are you actually being serious?
I've never been massively on the Ford bandwagon but he's comfortably top 5, probably top 3, I'm Europe.
I'd take sexton over him but some of the other names bandied around are laughable.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I thought you were joking in saying Jackson would be ahead of ford - are you actually being serious?
I've never been massively on the Ford bandwagon but he's comfortably top 5, probably top 3, I'm Europe.
I'd take sexton over him but some of the other names bandied around are laughable.

Olyy is only saying this due to the Ford to sale link, remember when cips was at Sale and Olyy thought he should of been ahead of Ford.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

May back to his crabbing best

 

[valley commando]

I thought you were joking in saying Jackson would be ahead of ford - are you actually being serious?
I've never been massively on the Ford bandwagon but he's comfortably top 5, probably top 3, I'm Europe.
I'd take sexton over him but some of the other names bandied around are laughable.

Ford scrapes into my top 10 European 10s, none of the English 10s will start in a Lions test, Jackson is better than Ford so is Russell and Sam Davies, the England 10s have been playing behind a decent pack for much of the last year making them look better than they are. The best English 10 at the moment is Cips.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Ford scrapes into my top 10 European 10s, none of the English 10s will start in a Lions test, Jackson is better than Ford so is Russell and Sam Davies, the England 10s have been playing behind a decent pack for much of the last year making them look better than they are. The best English 10 at the moment is Cips.

Lol back to your best wind ups. Fords poop is a better flyhalf than Sam Davies.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I thought you were joking in saying Jackson would be ahead of ford - are you actually being serious?
I've never been massively on the Ford bandwagon but he's comfortably top 5, probably top 3, I'm Europe.
I'd take sexton over him but some of the other names bandied around are laughable.

I think they're at the same level, Ford scrapes it with ball in hand but Jackson's leadership and place kicking catch him up. For a guy who wasn't on our bench in the 6nations Jackson has improved immensely playing 80 mins in wins over SA and Australia. Give him the England team and I think you'd see more linebreaks too, his flat pass to a hard runner is arguably the best in the NH.

I don't think anyobe is remotely close to Sexton, Russell, Ford and Jackson are in a group behind him with Russell the form guy right now and if Biggar could capture his form of 12 months ago he'd be thereabouts too, Farrell is a 12, Carbery and Davies too inexperienced and not quite good enough yet, no one else is a viable option.

 

[munstermuffin]

I thought you were joking in saying Jackson would be ahead of ford - are you actually being serious?
I've never been massively on the Ford bandwagon but he's comfortably top 5, probably top 3, I'm Europe.
I'd take sexton over him but some of the other names bandied around are laughable.

Not really swayed either way but would argue Ford hasn't done much lately to be a top 3 10 lately being fair. The form 10 at moment is Russell.

 

[valley commando]

Lol back to your best wind ups. Fords poop is a better flyhalf than Sam Davies.

You are a 1st class wind up merchant

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not really swayed either way but would argue Ford hasn't done much lately to be a top 3 10 lately being fair. The form 10 at moment is Russell.

Done much lately?
Other than start at 10 in an unbeaten year for England and lead his club to (currently) 3rd?

I like Russell but don't understand the sudden clamour for him to go.

10. Sexton 12/22 Farrell/Henshaw (flip a coin), Ford in the extended squad, Russell next in line in case of injury. Big fan of Biggar but he needs a big 6N to be in the mix.

 

[corny]

if Biggar could capture his form of 12 months ago he'd be thereabouts too,

Recapturing form for Biggar is making more tackles and catching more aerial bombs. He's good at both but a more varied game should be required of him to get picked ahead others.

No problem with Ford being picked ahead of Sexton if they both go and his form is superior at the time.

Last time it was 2 outhalves and Hogg. This time it'll be 2 outhalves and Farrell as cover. Two of Biggar, Sexton, Ford, Russell will go. I think its going to be real easy for Gatland to leave Ford at home. Taller, more physical lads get picked. Thats the kicker for Gatland. Always has been.