(Very) early thoughts on the 2017 Lions

[Leonormous Boozer]

Accepting your pecking order for the sake of argument, we had our fifth choice loosehead on tour last time round and still ended up needing Tom Court for a cameo. Five different outside backs got called up. We've had the 4th choice hooker out there two tours in a row etc.etc. Talking about the potentially 5th place guy is still relevant.

But while you might disagree with Jackson as 3rd best fly-half available, its not an outrageous opinion to have. Hence him being in the conversation.

My opinion would be that saying Ford is better than Sexton is more outrageous than saying Jackson's third choice... This partly comes from me having a relatively low opinion of Ford.

My pecking order would be Sexton, Russell, Farrell (to cover centre too) and then your pick of Ford, Jackson or Biggar if Outhalf fli breaks out it'd be time to call Carbery or Cips then.

 

[TW27BA]

Every fly half mentioned in the previous 45 pages should be ahead of Biggar. His game has gone backwards at a huge rate since 2014.

Oh,and I'm another who thinks George North should have the summer off.

 

[munstermuffin]

Is there any hope for Andy Goode he consistently keeps a level of fitness

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Goode says he will come out of retirement of his podcasts hits number one so I think he ha as chance TBH

 

[Peat]

My opinion would be that saying Ford is better than Sexton is more outrageous than saying Jackson's third choice... This partly comes from me having a relatively low opinion of Ford.

My pecking order would be Sexton, Russell, Farrell (to cover centre too) and then your pick of Ford, Jackson or Biggar if Outhalf fli breaks out it'd be time to call Carbery or Cips then.

Since I think the only thing Sexton really has on Ford is more proof of his ability, goal kicking aside, I'd call that a very low opinion of Ford.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Are we talking about Scottish Jackson or the ALLEGEDLY sex pest one?

 

[corny]

Paddy Jackson doesn't kick well enough out of hand to be considered. His Garryowens routinely go places he didn't intend them to go.

 

[munstermuffin]

Goode says he will come out of retirement of his podcasts hits number one so I think he ha as chance TBH

The man is a legend and he got critics for his weight etc but Tigs was he probably the best 10 ye had the last 15 years?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The man is a legend and he got critics for his weight etc but Tigs was he probably the best 10 ye had the last 15 years?

Yeh I would say so.

Flood was brilliant but Goode was a perfect manager of the backs and his kicking was second to none he was a forwards 10 aswell something that the likes of Cips are not, which for Tigers was huge.

Stransky was here 17 years ago but he was prob the best 10 I have ever seen live the guy was brilliant.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Since I think the only thing Sexton really has on Ford is more proof of his ability, goal kicking aside, I'd call that a very low opinion of Ford.

I don't rate Ford's game management whatsoever to be honest. I've seen him falter under the slightest pressure far too often, anytime he comes to Dublin it happens, he's had such a dominant team this year that doing the right thing at the right time doesn't matter all that much which is good for you lads because when he has to he rarely does in my opinion. His defence is greatly inferior to Sexton's too purely due to not being big enough for test level rugby unfortunately, I think protecting him is what's causing your weak defence out wide. He has all the skills Sexton has but comes up short both in his physicality and mentally, if the Lions knew they'd bully NZ Ford's your man, they won't though.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I don't rate Ford's game management whatsoever to be honest. I've seen him falter under the slightest pressure far too often, anytime he comes to Dublin it happens, he's had such a dominant team this year that doing the right thing at the right time doesn't matter all that much which is good for you lads because when he has to he rarely does in my opinion. His defence is greatly inferior to Sexton's too purely due to not being big enough for test level rugby unfortunately, I think protecting him is what's causing your weak defence out wide. He has all the skills Sexton has but comes up short both in his physicality and mentally, if the Lions knew they'd bully NZ Ford's your man, they won't though.

Yeah that's where I was coming from....he's pretty lucky to be behind the current England pack and h'es untested insofar as with the Jones regime we haven't seen him under particular pressure.. I don't know that he can take a game by the scruff of the neck and turn a 50 / 50 game into a 55 / 45 game and although it's pretty obvious that most 10's prefer an armchair ride, there are a couple out there like Sexton who will control the game without that.

 

[Which Tyler]

I... don't know what to say about those 2 comments. They just sound like they're made by people who've never actually watched GF play, but know he's up against their man.
Questions over GF's game management? Really?
Might as well questionnaire Barritt' defence or Halfpenny's kicking

 

[Saint4805]

I just wonder how Hogg will work in the team, he has previously come out and complained about the English so if the team if largely English, especially either of the wingers, will he be unwilling to work with them? You only have to look at Brown and May to see what a mess it can be when the FB and winger clearly aren't on the same page. Funny really, him singling the English out as not respecting Scotland says a lot more about his attitude towards the English than the English attitude to Scotland. It's extremely unprofessional to go to the media and start bleating like that.

That's a bit of a misrepresentation. It's the media who approach the players for interviews looking for some content that will give them a headline, often mischievous and unrepresentative of the content. I remember seeing some VT from the last Lions tour which revealed that Hogg and Farrell had become good friends during the tour being the two youngest players in the group. From what I remember Hogg really enjoyed the tour and so your suggestion that he might not gel with players from other home nations has very little foundation.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I... don't know what to say about those 2 comments. They just sound like they're made by people who've never actually watched GF play, but know he's up against their man.
Questions over GF's game management? Really?
Might as well questionnaire Barritt' defence or Halfpenny's kicking

I don't have 'a man'! Just an England fan who sees Ford as a super talented player who has played superbly under Jones and papered over most of the concerns I had with him during the Lancaster years but in my opinion needs to be further tested and put under the cosh to prove that he has a world class level of game management in him. I don't think that's unfair since we're talking about the lions and I think you need a lot of experience to handle that.

 

[Saint4805]

My opinion would be that saying Ford is better than Sexton is more outrageous than saying Jackson's third choice... This partly comes from me having a relatively low opinion of Ford.

My pecking order would be Sexton, Russell, Farrell (to cover centre too) and then your pick of Ford, Jackson or Biggar if Outhalf fli breaks out it'd be time to call Carbery or Cips then.

+1

Russell is in the form of his life and will hopefully get a chance to showcase his talent at the 6N. His game management and overall performances against Racing were exceptional.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I... don't know what to say about those 2 comments. They just sound like they're made by people who've never actually watched GF play, but know he's up against their man.
Questions over GF's game management? Really?
Might as well questionnaire Barritt' defence or Halfpenny's kicking

No man for me either, I hope Sexton rejects a call up. I've seen the guy play horribly under the sort of pressure Sexton can handle and thrive under. Most people rate Ford pretty low over here due to the three howlers he's had in Dublin. Can't say I've watched him in the premiership but he hasn't done anything to show me he's learnt to think under pressure since the RWC, not that he's had the chance.

 

[Which Tyler]

HenryC
That doesn't sound as close to "I don't rate Ford's game management whatsoever to be honest" as " Yeah that's where I was coming from" made it sound.
Of course, he's done what you want plenty at club level, but I agree that he hasn't had the chance for England (excepting the first match in Australia). Of course, he's also part of England not ring put under much pressure for him to come back from as well, not to mention a factor in not having many caps.

 

[Peat]

England's wide defence has looked absolutely balls without Ford in the team. I think its fair to say that one's definitely not on him.

Tbh, I don't really care that much about fly-halves' defence these days as long as they're not cowards. I used to, but then I looked at how many teams were doing just fine with indifferent tacklers there and how many robust defensive fly-halves spend a lot of time on the side line. Sexton's a good example; he's gone missing for Ireland at very bad times twice in the last four windows and missed one altogether. Its a lot easier for a team to shield a fly-half in defence than it is in attack.

I think people are also overstating England's dominance levels this year. We've put ourselves in a hole a few times through indiscipline or a slow start and the pack's carrying has been fairly anaemic at times too. We've won everything but that doesn't mean a succession of pressure-free easy games or games where the pack won it and all the backs had to do was collect. I'd have to rewatch some of them to be sure of how much part Ford played but one look at the stats for the matches suggest he must have done something.

 

[ncurd]

Every time Ford defence comes up I ask the simple question "When was the last time Ford's defence directly lead to a try?" Yeah he's not knocking down trees with his ability but it's good enough.

As to game management.....uh yeah I think you guys haven't watched anywhere near enough if him. As to his three trips to Dublin.....not sure Fords game management was the reason we lost those games. In fact part of the problem against Ireland was him trying to chuck the everything and the kitchen sink at trying to get England back into the game. It looked poor at times but he was bloody well giving it everything behind a beaten pack. All fly halves look poor in that situation. I can't think of a single instance where fly halves look good in that situation and magically resurrect the game from nothing.

- - - Updated - - -

Peat look at the first Australia game for Ford's impact. England were all at sea until he came on (I still think Jones started with Farrell due to pressure from media and he rates Ford better at 10).

 

[Which Tyler]

A 92% success rate helps as well. I know, I know, stats don't show everything,candidates don't show context, or metres lost etc etc. They do though, absolutely counter an argument of "poor defence"