(Very) early thoughts on the 2017 Lions

[Gavin]

Every time Ford defence comes up I ask the simple question "When was the last time Ford's defence directly lead to a try?" Yeah he's not knocking down trees with his ability but it's good enough

I do think for a smaller lad Ford's tackling is pretty good actually. He isn't putting people on their arses like Wilkinson did for England, or Farrell can do as well, but he doesn't shy away from contact now the way he used to

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Trouble is mistake last longer in the memory I remember when Hughes ran over ford like 10 times in one game last season in the champions cup.

Things like that don't help impressions.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't think Sexton's injuries are owed to his defence Peat, he's just been severly overplayed since the last tour. He'd gone four years before that pretty much injury free.

Every time Ford defence comes up I ask the simple question "When was the last time Ford's defence directly lead to a try?" Yeah he's not knocking down trees with his ability but it's good enough.

As to game management.....uh yeah I think you guys haven't watched anywhere near enough if him. As to his three trips to Dublin.....not sure Fords game management was the reason we lost those games. In fact part of the problem against Ireland was him trying to chuck the everything and the kitchen sink at trying to get England back into the game. It looked poor at times but he was bloody well giving it everything behind a beaten pack. All fly halves look poor in that situation. I can't think of a single instance where fly halves look good in that situation and magically resurrect the game from nothing.

- - - Updated - - -

Peat look at the first Australia game for Ford's impact. England were all at sea until he came on (I still think Jones started with Farrell due to pressure from media and he rates Ford better at 10).

Not exactly great game management that is it? There's ways to ressurect a beaten pack and going for broke like Ford did that game isn't how to do it Sexton was at least one step ahead of him for that entire game, I seem to remember him being absolutely awful in the ERCC QF a couple years ago when Bath really should have won handy. I'm always very strict in rating game management and all but ignore what a player does in a dominant side because it's hard for a 10 to do wrong given an armchair ride. Ford has failed the test for me multiple times when he's behind a struggling pack and I could never see him drag a result out of a game like Sexton can, Leinster would been to one less HEC final with Ford instead of Sexton, Ireland would have lost to Wales this year etc...

His defence may be good enough but in comparison to Sexton, which is what I thought this was, its weak. We are talking about the best defensive 10 in the world here but when he's the other guy and the only area where I'd really rate him as worse than Ford is kicking accuracy from hand its a fair comparison to make. Russell, Farrell, Biggar and Jackson are all better defenders too which would make me suggest that while Ford's D might be adequate in the current England set up it isn't to the standard of a tier 1 international.

A 92% success rate helps as well. I know, I know, stats don't show everything,candidates don't show context, or metres lost etc etc. They do though, absolutely counter an argument of "poor defence"

It most certainly does not, Ireland had their unbeaten year with RO'G at 10. Bath don't win 92% of their games...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Trouble is mistake last longer in the memory I remember when Hughes ran over ford like 10 times in one game last season in the champions cup.

Things like that don't help impressions.

I know what you mean. It's like with Hartley, people remember the one incident and think he's had lots of bans.....oh wait bad example

 

[Which Tyler]

It most certainly does not, Ireland had their unbeaten year with RO'G at 10. Bath don't win 92% of their games...

I have literally no idea what you're trying to say here.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I have literally no idea what you're trying to say here.

Were you trying to say a 92% win rate counters the argument of poor defence or have I misunderstood you?

 

[ncurd]

Were you trying to say a 92% win rate counters the argument of poor defence or have I misunderstood you?

Psssttt I think he's referring to international matches.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Were you trying to say a 92% win rate counters the argument of poor defence or have I misunderstood you?

Bro you're not going to change the opinions of the bath/England lot before he announces his move to sale......

 

[Which Tyler]

You've both misunderstood, sorry, I should have been clearer (though I thought my bit about yeah, yeah, stats etc made it fairly clear).

In direct relation to Ford's defence, his tackle success rate is 92%, which absolutely counters arguments that his defence is poor.

 

[ncurd]

Bro you're not going to change the opinions of the bath/England lot before he announces his move to sale......

la La La it's not happening and I'm not listening....

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

You've both misunderstood, sorry, I should have been clearer (though I thought my bit about yeah, yeah, stats etc made it fairly clear).

In direct relation to Ford's defence, his tackle success rate is 92%, which absolutely counters arguments that his defence is poor.

Ok, yeah, I don't think his defence is poor but some of the competition he has are better purely due to being bigger men to be fair.

 

[Which Tyler]

Oh yes, and I'd never claim his defence as a strength; it was just a comment on claims (not made in this thread) about his defence being poor - usually based on his size, and a couple of months when daddy had him tackling high (to cut off the offload), and getting bounced all the time.

 

[westernforce]

l

 

[Zootalaws]

...Halfpenny's extra 10 yards of range is a pretty huge boost over Farrell for me. Would need to find his best form again but in it, he's the best goal kicker in the world with no question.

With no question? Sorry, but there's a lot of question.

His goal kicking percentage over 66 tests is only just north of 50%. Beauden Barrett, not ranked the best kicker in NZ, is at over 92% in 49 tests. Aaron Cruden at over 93% and while he's warming the bench to current golden boy Barrett, is still one of the best in-play and tactical kickers,as well as the one of the most accurate place kickers in the SH.

And there's some keen talent in the Boks.

I really like Halfpenny, personally. He's a friend of my daughter and a cracking young bloke, but I doubt he himself would rank himself the best in the world. Knowing his modest nature, he probably doesn't rank himself the best in Wales, but he probably is.

At the same level of experience, Farrell and Sexton have much better figures and would be in form right now.

 

[Zootalaws]

I think my money's pretty safe in calling Best most likely to be the captain. Gatland rates him, publicly, as a hooker and as a captain.

His performance against NZ has shown he will not take a step back, which can't be said of previous Lions captains against NZ.

Given the 'midweek' games, if you take anyone not 100% fit or a bit light weight, they will not be completing the tour. The schedule is brutal, the teams that will be softening them up for the tests will be out to show just how good the level of play in the Supers is and the Provincial IV and Maoris will be out to take scalps.

What I'm hoping for is a great tour, free from all the shenanigans that played so badly in the media last time. Hopefully they have some smart people ensuring the boys have a good time, without feeling the need to get completely slaughtered in public.

Keep it till the end of the tour, have a few days off and see the fleshpots and bars to your heart's content, but respect the honour you've been given to be a Lion and don't let yourself and your team down.

If Best's in charge, I suspect discipline will be demanded.

I hope Hartley is left at home, he's a disgrace that no amount of form can overcome.

 

[dullonien]

With no question? Sorry, but there's a lot of question.

His goal kicking percentage over 66 tests is only just north of 50%. Beauden Barrett, not ranked the best kicker in NZ, is at over 92% in 49 tests. Aaron Cruden at over 93% and while he's warming the bench to current golden boy Barrett, is still one of the best in-play and tactical kickers,as well as the one of the most accurate place kickers in the SH.

And there's some keen talent in the Boks.

I really like Halfpenny, personally. He's a friend of my daughter and a cracking young bloke, but I doubt he himself would rank himself the best in the world. Knowing his modest nature, he probably doesn't rank himself the best in Wales, but he probably is.

At the same level of experience, Farrell and Sexton have much better figures and would be in form right now.

Love to know where you're getting those numbers from. According to http://www.goalkickers.co.za/, since 2012 (they don't seem to go back further than then, and Halfpenny wasn't Wales' kicker prior to then anyway, only taking the difficult long-range shots at goal), halfpenny leads the kicking stats at international level with a 84.5% success rate. Barrett and Cruden don't appear in the top 10. Cruden has a percentage of around 73.4%, whilst Barrett has a rate of 69.5%.

 

[Which Tyler]

Equally, statbunker : http://rugby.statbunker.com/players...23785&comps_type=1111111&dates=-1&comps_id=-1
Have his international stats at 86.2% including his time as a long distance pot-shot kicker.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

With regards to the Ford-Sexton matchup, I find it weird how Ford gets lots of criticism for England failing in 2015 and Sexton is hailed as having the better of him but 2016 where Ford had the better of Sexton and it is just ignored... Sexton may tackle harder than Ford but he is notoriously a bad tackler ie he gets the technique spectacularly wrong and injures himself.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

If I remember that game correctly the only place Ireland had parity was at 10 and 13.

- - - Updated - - -

Sexton hasn't injured himself in a tackle since Basteraud headbutted him, think that was 2014 or 15, he's been concussion free for a while now. His problems are primarily hamstring issues these days.

 

[Timbo]

Sexton was poor at Twickenham this year, Ford outplayed him no contest. Contrarily, Ford was the only Bath player who played well in the European QF a couple of years ago. Scored a brilliant individual try and also did fantastically well to set up another, all behind a beaten pack.