Under 20 Six Nations

[big ginger 8]

With the Irish squad announced today I thought I may as well start this thread, don't know if any of the others have been announced yet.

Props: Michael Lagan (Ballymena/Ulster), Conan O'Donnell (Sligo/Connacht), Oisin Heffernan (Terenure/Leinster)*, Jeremy Lougman (UCD/Leinster)
Hookers: Zac McCall (Queens University/Ulster), Sean McNulty (UCD/Munster)*
Locks: Jack Dwan (Leinster), Josh Murphy (UCD/Leinster)*, David O'Connor (St. Mary's/Leinster), Cian Romaine (Buccaneers/Connacht), Alexander Thompson (Queens University/Ulster)
Back rows: Lorcan Dow (Queens/Ulster), Stephen McVeigh (Buccaneers/Connacht), Rory Moloney (Buccaneers/Connacht)*, Conor Oliver (St. Mary's/Leinster), Nick Timoney (St. Mary's/Leinster)
Half-backs: Jack Cullen (Shannon /Munster)*, Nicolas McCarthy (UCD/Leinster)*, Ross Byrne (UCD RFC/ Leinster)*, Joey Carbery (UCD/ Leinster)
Centres: Samuel Arnold (Ballynahinch/Ulster), Harrison Brewer (Terenure/ Leinster)*, Fergal Cleary (Lansdowne / Leinster), Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)*, Jacob Stockdale (Queens University/Ulster)
Back threes: Billy Dardis (UCD/Leinster)*, Stephen Fitzgerald (Shannon/ Munster), Ciaran Gaffney (Galwegians/Connacht)*, Greg O'Shea (Shannon/Munster), Jack Owens (Queens University/Ulster).

Talking points are probably no O'Hagan or Power. McCarthy is captain. It's a strong team especially in the backs. The big question as usual will be the setpiece.

I'd imagine the team will look something like:

1. Loughman
2. McNulty
3. Heffernan
4. Thompson
5. Murphy
6. Timoney
7. Oliver
8. Dow
9. McCarthy
10. Bynre
11. O'Shea
12. Arnold
13. Ringrose
14. Gaffney
15. Dardis

16. McCall
17. Lagan
18. O'Donnell
19. O'Connor
20. McVeigh/Moloney
21. Cullen
22. Carbery
23. Stockdale

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wales Under 20 Six Nations squad:
Forwards:
Luke Garrett (Dragons), Harrison Walsh (Ospreys), Dillon Lewis (Blues), Alex Jeffries (Dragons), Joe Jones (Blues), Ryan Elias (Scarlets), Liam Belcher (Blues), Torin Myhill (Scarlets), Joe Davies (Dragons), Rory Thornton (Ospreys), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Seb Davies (Blues), Tom Phillips (Scarlets), Ollie Griffiths (Dragons), Harrison Keddie (Dragons), Jordan Viggers (Blues), Rory Bartle (Gloucester)

Backs:
Tom Williams (Blues), Kieran Hardy (Scarlets), Owen Davies (Dragons), Daniel Jones (Scarlets), Callum Sheedy (Bristol), Garyn Smith (Blues), Tyler Morgan (Dragons), Owen Watkin (Ospreys), Danny Cross (RGC), Barney Nightingale (Dragons), Joshua Adams (Scarlets), Rhys Williams (Leicester), Elis-Wyn Benham (Blues), James Whittingham (Blues), Dafydd Howells (Ospreys)

Don't know much about the except Rhys Williams who has looked very dangerous on the wing for Leicester academy and the A team.

 

[Irishkid]

lorcan Dow has come a seriously long way.

 

[Conal]

mon the boys from queens

 

[Draggs]

Wales Under 20 Six Nations squad:
Forwards:
Luke Garrett (Dragons), Harrison Walsh (Ospreys), Dillon Lewis (Blues), Alex Jeffries (Dragons), Joe Jones (Blues), Ryan Elias (Scarlets), Liam Belcher (Blues), Torin Myhill (Scarlets), Joe Davies (Dragons), Rory Thornton (Ospreys), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Seb Davies (Blues), Tom Phillips (Scarlets), Ollie Griffiths (Dragons), Harrison Keddie (Dragons), Jordan Viggers (Blues), Rory Bartle (Gloucester)

Backs:
Tom Williams (Blues), Kieran Hardy (Scarlets), Owen Davies (Dragons), Daniel Jones (Scarlets), Callum Sheedy (Bristol), Garyn Smith (Blues), Tyler Morgan (Dragons), Owen Watkin (Ospreys), Danny Cross (RGC), Barney Nightingale (Dragons), Joshua Adams (Scarlets), Rhys Williams (Leicester), Elis-Wyn Benham (Blues), James Whittingham (Blues), Dafydd Howells (Ospreys)

Don't know much about the except Rhys Williams who has looked very dangerous on the wing for Leicester academy and the A team.

Elias and Myhill have both seen gametime recently for the Scarlets due to their hooking crisis. Joe Davies and Rory Thornton were the locks last year as well, both big lads (finally!)
In the backs, Tyler Morgan is a dual squad member, being named yesterday in the Senior side. Owen Watkin is highly regarded by a few as well. Nightingale played a few games earlier in the season when Newport had a centre issues, and did pretty well. Elis-Wyn Benham is apparently small and rapid. Dafydd Howells was capped 18 months ago on the Japan tour.

 

[profitius]

Irelands backline will be their best ever at this age level. Not so sure about the forwards though.

 

[ruggabee]

So Garry Ringrose has been praised following the last under 20s junior world championship, however I didn't get to see him play. Going by the images I see of him he looks fairly lanky, and the only YT videos I can find of him are the close range tries he scored in that tournament. I'm not able to get a sense of what makes him special so to those who have watched him, what are his strengths? Why was he nominated as a junior player of the year?

Also, I've heard some good things regarding Jacob Stockdale, Billy Dardis, and Greg O'Shea. Again I know nothing about what upholds their reputation, and am keen to hear some insight from people in the know. Feel free to add others who you feel may be special in years to come!

We apparently have an experienced unit with members transferring from the previous squad, so hopefully our performances are clinical. But you know, there are new players we have never heard of that could light up from other countries. I'm not sure how beneficial under 20s experience is at this level when raw talent is concerned. At this age group I tend to look for those who have athleticism that can't be taught, or/and those who have a natural deftness in their skill that again can't be taught. I hope we find someone special like that in this Ireland squad. We rarely find a freak specimen and it would be great to have one out wide for once. We have enough in the back row and front row!

 

[profitius]

Ruggabee, Ringrose is a lovely balanced runner ie with good footwork. He also has excellent skills and awareness. Gaffney, Heffernan, Ross Byrne and McCarthy are other to watch out for. Stockdale and Owens are 2 big Ulster backs. Fitzgerald played a few games for Munster last summer, straight from school. Sam Arnold could be the surprise package.

 

[Peat]

England U20 Six Nations Squad:
Forwards
Seb Adeniran-Olule (Harlequins)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)
Jake Farnworth (Leicester Tigers)
Joe Batley (Gloucester Rugby)
Charlie Beckett (Leicester Tigers)
Lewis Boyce (Yorkshire Carnegie)
James Chisholm (Harlequins)
Ellis Genge (Bristol Rugby)
Paul Hill (Yorkshire Carnegie)
Jack Innard (Exeter Chiefs)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints)
Will Owen (Leicester Tigers)
Ciaran Parker (Sale Sharks)
Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs)
Huw Taylor (Worcester Warriors)
Kieran Treadwell (Harlequins)
Jack Walker (Yorkshire Carnegie)
Will Witty (Newcastle Falcons)

Backs
Max Clark (Bath Rugby)
Tom Fowlie (London Irish)
Rory Jennings (Bath Rugby)
Harry Mallinder (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marchant (Harlequins)
James Mitchell (Sale Sharks)
Aaron Morris (Saracens)
Tom Morton (Sale Sharks)
Piers O'Conor (Wasps)
Howard Packman (Northampton Saints)
George Perkins (Saracens)
Taylor Prell (Yorkshire Carnegie)
Nick Tompkins (Saracens)
Stuart Townsend (Exeter Chiefs)

Some serious, serious talent there.


---

Stockdale scored a ton of tries for Ireland Schools earlier in the year. Both he and Owens have already been involved with Ulster in pre-season friendlies despite both being just out of school. As far as I'm aware, both have played centre/wing/full-back. There's been a lot of excitement about them and Arnold among Ulster fans.

I think O'Hagan's had some injuries and maybe had some form issues too. Hasn't always got past Bingham for the Ravens.

 

[ratsapprentice]

English lads to look out for IMO:

Charlie Ewels
Lewis Boyce
James Chisholm
Ellis Genge
Paul Hill
Tom Fowlie
Joe Marchant
Nick Tompkins

 

[Irishkid]

Fowlie is playing tommorow and has some serious talent he is the next one off the production line.

 

[Peat]

Definitely add Jack Walker to the "Look out for list".

Fowlie is playing tommorow and has some serious talent he is the next one off the production line.

I'm sure he'll do really well for Bath in a couple of seasons ^_^

 

[big ginger 8]

So Garry Ringrose has been praised following the last under 20s junior world championship, however I didn't get to see him play. Going by the images I see of him he looks fairly lanky, and the only YT videos I can find of him are the close range tries he scored in that tournament. I'm not able to get a sense of what makes him special so to those who have watched him, what are his strengths? Why was he nominated as a junior player of the year?

Also, I've heard some good things regarding Jacob Stockdale, Billy Dardis, and Greg O'Shea. Again I know nothing about what upholds their reputation, and am keen to hear some insight from people in the know. Feel free to add others who you feel may be special in years to come!

We apparently have an experienced unit with members transferring from the previous squad, so hopefully our performances are clinical. But you know, there are new players we have never heard of that could light up from other countries. I'm not sure how beneficial under 20s experience is at this level when raw talent is concerned. At this age group I tend to look for those who have athleticism that can't be taught, or/and those who have a natural deftness in their skill that again can't be taught. I hope we find someone special like that in this Ireland squad. We rarely find a freak specimen and it would be great to have one out wide for once. We have enough in the back row and front row!

https://irishunderagerugby.wordpress.com/2014/12/30/ireland-under-20-2015/

That's a decent if light overview.

Ringrose is as described by Profitus but also an accomplished goalkicker at schools level getting 27/28 kicks in the Senior Cup when he was in 6th year. He didn't do it too much last year though and seems to not have done it at all this year.

Although he describes Timoney as unimpressive physically I'm guessing he's talking in terms of stature. At around 6'1" he's probably a bit short for 8 but he's a physical freak otherwise. He's 107kg is the second strongest in the sub academy including the group of u19s that train with them and is also the fastest over 10 and 20m.

Stockdale is a big lad with good pace and an eye for the try line as well as a lot of versatility. From what I've heard he's also definitely got the confidence to back himself. Dardis received a huge amount of hype at schools level but didn't really live up to it last year. Does have a great turn of pace and excellent ball skills so hopefully he can show that this year. O'Shea reportedly has a 100m time that Carlin Isles wouldn't be too disappointed with also seems to be able to use it well.

We have excellent depth in the backs but not so much in the pack. Set peice will be a worry as I said but there are some physically very talented players with good handling in the pack. The 6N may not go well enough due to the weather (although we are playing at least one match on Donnybrook's new 4G pitch) so as seems the pattern with our 20s I'd say we won't peak until the JWRC.

 

[profitius]

https://irishunderagerugby.wordpress.com/2014/12/30/ireland-under-20-2015/

That's a decent if light overview.

Ringrose is as described by Profitus but also an accomplished goalkicker at schools level getting 27/28 kicks in the Senior Cup when he was in 6th year. He didn't do it too much last year though and seems to not have done it at all this year.

Although he describes Timoney as unimpressive physically I'm guessing he's talking in terms of stature. At around 6'1" he's probably a bit short for 8 but he's a physical freak otherwise. He's 107kg is the second strongest in the sub academy including the group of u19s that train with them and is also the fastest over 10 and 20m.

Stockdale is a big lad with good pace and an eye for the try line as well as a lot of versatility. From what I've heard he's also definitely got the confidence to back himself. Dardis received a huge amount of hype at schools level but didn't really live up to it last year. Does have a great turn of pace and excellent ball skills so hopefully he can show that this year. O'Shea reportedly has a 100m time that Carlin Isles wouldn't be too disappointed with also seems to be able to use it well.

We have excellent depth in the backs but not so much in the pack. Set peice will be a worry as I said but there are some physically very talented players with good handling in the pack. The 6N may not go well enough due to the weather (although we are playing at least one match on Donnybrook's new 4G pitch) so as seems the pattern with our 20s I'd say we won't peak until the JWRC.

Timoney sounds like a David Wallace type of athlete. His height isn't really relevant unless he plays in a team with a short backrow ie no lineout options.
I am cautiously optimistic that this years pack will be a bit more physical than previous years. The last time Ireland had a big pack was in the South African JWC in 2012.

 

[big ginger 8]

For anyone with the time are inclination this is a link to the 2013 Senior Cup final. It's got Loughman, Timoney, O'Connor, Ringrose, Dwan, Byrne, McCarthy and Murphy on show. It also has Ross Moloney and Cian Kelleher who both played in last years team and are playing Leinster A, Oliver Jaeger who is with the Crusaders academy, Denis Coulson who is playing for Grenoble and James Ryan and Jack Power who will both likely be stars of next years team.

http://youtu.be/_J3ISma_s20

 

[ruggabee]

Ruggabee, Ringrose is a lovely balanced runner ie with good footwork. He also has excellent skills and awareness. Gaffney, Heffernan, Ross Byrne and McCarthy are other to watch out for. Stockdale and Owens are 2 big Ulster backs. Fitzgerald played a few games for Munster last summer, straight from school. Sam Arnold could be the surprise package.

Stockdale scored a ton of tries for Ireland Schools earlier in the year. Both he and Owens have already been involved with Ulster in pre-season friendlies despite both being just out of school. As far as I'm aware, both have played centre/wing/full-back. There's been a lot of excitement about them and Arnold among Ulster fans.

I think O'Hagan's had some injuries and maybe had some form issues too. Hasn't always got past Bingham for the Ravens.

https://irishunderagerugby.wordpress.com/2014/12/30/ireland-under-20-2015/

That's a decent if light overview.

Ringrose is as described by Profitus but also an accomplished goalkicker at schools level getting 27/28 kicks in the Senior Cup when he was in 6th year. He didn't do it too much last year though and seems to not have done it at all this year.

Although he describes Timoney as unimpressive physically I'm guessing he's talking in terms of stature. At around 6'1" he's probably a bit short for 8 but he's a physical freak otherwise. He's 107kg is the second strongest in the sub academy including the group of u19s that train with them and is also the fastest over 10 and 20m.

Stockdale is a big lad with good pace and an eye for the try line as well as a lot of versatility. From what I've heard he's also definitely got the confidence to back himself. Dardis received a huge amount of hype at schools level but didn't really live up to it last year. Does have a great turn of pace and excellent ball skills so hopefully he can show that this year. O'Shea reportedly has a 100m time that Carlin Isles wouldn't be too disappointed with also seems to be able to use it well.

We have excellent depth in the backs but not so much in the pack. Set peice will be a worry as I said but there are some physically very talented players with good handling in the pack. The 6N may not go well enough due to the weather (although we are playing at least one match on Donnybrook's new 4G pitch) so as seems the pattern with our 20s I'd say we won't peak until the JWRC.

Thanks a lot guys for the info. Timoney sounds interesting. A low centre of gravity but powerful individual. All the backs mentioned also draw attention. Hopefully we find some long term pros, not just guys who are good for their age.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

U20s have generally been good for England, I hope to see a continuation of good youth coming through the system. God knows if the next few years go as the previous few have and it gets translated to the senior squad, England will be a force to be reckoned with.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Harry Mallinder (Northampton Saints)

Here's my fun fact of the day:
It was due to Harry Mallinder that Andrew Sheridan got his "Big Ted" nickname. Back when Jim was coaching at Sale he was on the phone to Sheridan and Harry thought he was on the phone to "Sheringham" as in Teddy Sheringham - this led to everyone at Sale calling him Big Teddy Sheringham, and it's stuck from then.

 

[big ginger 8]

Team for Friday:

15 – Billy Dardis (UCD/ Leinster)*
14 – Greg O'Shea (Shannon/ Munster)
13 – Garry Ringrose (UCD/ Leinster)*
12 – Fergal Cleary (Lansdowne / Leinster)
11 – Jack Owens (QUB/ Ulster)
10 – Ross Byrne (UCD / Leinster)
9 – Nick McCarthy (UCD/ Leinster) (Capt)*

1 – Jeremy Loughman (UCD / Leinster)
2 – Zack McCall (QUB/Ulster)
3 – Oisin Heffernan (Terenure/Leinster)*
4 – David O'Connor (St. Mary's/Leinster)
5 – Alex Thompson (QUB/Ulster)
6 – Josh Murphy (UCD/Leinster)*
7 – Rory Moloney (Buccaneers/Connacht)*
8 – Lorcan Dow (QUB/Ulster)

Replacements

16 – Adam McBurney (Ballymena/Ulster)
17 – Michael Lagan (Ballymena/Ulster)
18 – Conan O'Donnell (Sligo/NUIG/Connacht)
19 – Cian Romaine (Buccaneers/Connacht)
20 – Nick Timoney (St. Mary's/Leinster)
21 – Jack Cullen (Shannon/Munster)*
22 – Joey Carbery (UCD/Leinster)
23 – Sam Arnold (Ballynahinch/Ulster)

Gaffney, Dwan, Stockdale and McNulty all injured.

 

[Peat]

Bah. Decent rake of Ulster players to watch and I won't be able to see it.