Ultimate TRF election special in HD thread

[shtove]

Was interesting to read about some of the possible deals made on the BBC earler before the announcement of Cameron as PM. They suggested that the Torries will have to abandon their policy of increasing the amount a person can inherit without being taxed (yay!), and that Lib Dems policy on increasing the non-tax bracket to £10,000 will be approved (again yay! Although the lost tax needs recouping somewhere).

Agreed with Cameron's speach though. He talked about creating a pro-work society, where working people are rewarded. I cannot agree with this more. Benefits are all well and good for the people who actually need them, but there are just too many scumbag scrougers abusing the system in order to sit on their fat asses smoking fags and drinking their benefit money away.

Anyway, will be interesting to see what happens now. Are we going to end up with the best of both sides, or the worst of both? Will the two actually be able to work together, or will everything important just get stuck along the way?

I only caught the few minutes he gave outside No.10 - all I could hear was, "I'm slashing benefits. Suck it up, chavs! And Scotland - look after your own Neds." Obviously I'm biased.

Some reporter said they won't deliver the full £10k on tax allowance, but it will be getting there. Interesting to see how they deal with tax credits, which in my view were NuLab's masterplan for bribing voters. Can't wait to see people who work for less than average wage doing better than dole professionals - it should remove state-subsidised competition in certain areas and reduce the prices they have to pay, like rents that are propped up by housing benefits. Hopefully they will feel happy to plan families, instead of envying single mums on income support with their well fed herds of chipopotami.

Could be a stable government. Irish coalitions always start off with alot of tut-tutting, but last for donkeys years - so this partnership will probably surprise UK people who hear the press saying that coalitions are always a bit cuckoo.

The big problem is how bond markets treat UK gilts for the rest of the year. Not hopeful, but panic may recede and give Cameron a chance. Otherwise, Meryvn King's "out of power for a generation" may come true.

Now, which party said that the bankers will finally be prosecuted? Oh ... none! We'll have to wait for the final crash before anyone realises that runaway monetary policy is a disaster and that the German way is the right way.

 

[shtove]

The Conservative Party in the UK, much like the Republican Party in the US, are committed to safeguarding the capitalist system that has made them rich. Their essential argument is that those who have 'earned' their wealth should not be asked to help those who haven't. They would prefer to see people homeless, poor healthcare and low standards of education than pay more tax. Due to the fact they will spend huge sums of money on private education and healthcare for their own families, it is pretty clear that the real issue for them is the idea of having to pay for someone else. I believe the whole right-wing ideology can be reduced to selfishness.

Ridiculous generalisations.

The Tories would obviously prefer to see people who don't work able to outbid people who do work for housing, education and health services. And if the ******* Thatcherites can't swing that on benefits and tax credits, then they will just borrow £100000000000000000000000000 so they can employ everybody in pretend jobs. Tory snobs!

I don't know where you're from, but in large parts of the UK this is what has happened in the past ten years. Everybody I know has a story about this kind of injustice - but it just results in a shake of the head and a vote for ... the LibDems.

 

[shtove]

Thats quite a strange attitude to have. I can understand some people don't care but at this moment in time with the way the economy is, but I believe it is very important that everyone takes notice. How old are you? Im 20 and im at University with another year left to do. Then after that I have a training course that is £10k before I can even start doing my career. Problem is will there acually be any jobs actually going in my profession? With £30k worth of debt coming out of my pocket every month (at roughly around £180 p/m on top of tax + NI) I am severely worried what the future holds.

I have loads of friends who graduated Uni last year with some great degree unable to the jobs. Now they're literally making ends meet by stacking boxes in warehouses and may as well be using their degree as a blanket.

This is sad. Seems to have happened to many people, and the options are so limited in the UK.

Debt is not wealth. Debt is not an investment. It's the bank's way of stealing productive people's future earnings.

 

[dullonien]

Would be nice if they could do something to drive house prices down to an acceptable level where people in their mid to late twenties with a decent job can actually aford to buy something small. Just getting the banks to offer mortgages is not enough.

I worked in a small architect practice in Aberystwyth for a number of years (still do over summer), and saw first hand the reasons for the high house prices. The simple fact is that developers cannot sell a new house for less than £150+ thousand and expect to make a profit. This is all down to the rediculous prices building plots now go for. A single small plot surrounding Aberystwyth costs upwards of £100,000! This has all come about due to the green belts introduced to try and reduce load on the planning departments, where houses are only allowed to be built within a certain small band surrounding existing villiages, towns and cities.

My dad knows a few fellow farmers who were lucky enough to own a farm within these 'belts', one of them just sells another plot of land when we feels he needs more money. Roughly 10 plots are usually squeezed into an Acre. That means land with planning permission is worth ~ £1 million per Acre. Compare that with arable land, which according do dad sells for roughly £10,000 per Acre (depending on location and quality of course). 100 times less!!!!!!

Sorry, but this is just stupid. The farmers lucky enough to have owned a farm within these belts are laughing all the way to the bank, becoming instant multi millionares, yet the developers aremaking less and less profit tryign to keep prices down (even making losses on some of the affordable homes required within larger developments), and no-one can afford the bloody things!

I say, cap the price of land to say 100,000 and Acre (that's still a ten times increase over arrable land prices), then all of a sudden developers can start knocking anywhere between 70-90 thousand off the prices of hew houses (in an ideal world I know), which will in turn drive down the prices of the entire housing market.

 

[Versus]

I've had enough of career politicians who don't know jack about real life, Ed Balls, David Cameron, Miliband brothers, Cleggie and such. Far too young to be politicians and some don't even look old enough to buy alcohol, none of them have outside jobs like Brown, Darling and Cable. You can't have a 40 year old running the country, who has never worked outside of politics, it just doesn't work.

Clegg is a two faced *******, I wish the Tories didn't do a deal with him and told him to **** off, as soon as Brown quits he immediately makes a deal with the Tories after saying he would join Labour if Brown quits and also mucked around the Tories.

I just wish we had a hung parliament and the Tories were in control, none of the parties are fit to make any sort of decisions, nothing would be done which would mean no **** ups.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't really see a problem about someone who's dedicated their lives to politics, being a politician.
It's like saying you don't like someone who studied medicine at 18, because they'll have no real world experience when they're 50

Also, a quick peruse of the internet shows that Brown lectured in politics before being a politician, and Cameron worked for Carlton Media for 7 years, so it's Brown that's never worked outside politics

 

[Teh Mite]

I've had enough of career politicians who don't know jack about real life, Ed Balls, David Cameron, Miliband brothers, Cleggie and such. Far too young to be politicians and some don't even look old enough to buy alcohol, none of them have outside jobs like Brown, Darling and Cable. You can't have a 40 year old running the country, who has never worked outside of politics, it just doesn't work.

Clegg is a two faced *******, I wish the Tories didn't do a deal with him and told him to **** off, as soon as Brown quits he immediately makes a deal with the Tories after saying he would join Labour if Brown quits and also mucked around the Tories.

I just wish we had a hung parliament and the Tories were in control, none of the parties are fit to make any sort of decisions, nothing would be done which would mean no **** ups.

What a ******* load of utter ******** you regularly spout.

 

[Saints1]

They can't just cut tax credits, they need to consider the alternative very carefully or people will go past the poverty line.

 

[Teh Mite]

This is the best that corrupt, morally bankrupt government could come up with? Labour's big advertisement for the election was a mock-up of David Cameron in the guise of Gene Hunt. They were apperently warning the British public not to go back to the 'brutal' days of the Thatcherite 1980s.

Oh, so what 'brutality' are we talking about, Sluggy? The days when this country's population was still overwhelmingly and recognisably British? The days when Islamisation and unfettered multiculturalism were not even on the social radar? The days when union militancy had been well and truly tamed? The days when this country was not on the verge of bankruptcy as it is today? The days when immigration was kept in check? The days when the social nightmares of teenage pregancy, drug abuse, social breakdown, unruly youth and crime were mere shadows of what they have become under this government? The days when we were in the European Community as a member state instead of a client county of a putative European supranational entity? The days when the Union with Scotland was not in any danger from the rise of separatism? On and on it goes.

It was a government which presided over the greatest loss and/or adulteration of the things that made this country great. It has not come by chance, either. Faced with shrinking poll ratings once again and the rebuke of the NI increase by noted business figures, it resorted to nothing more than the tactics of the schoolground pranksters. We may return to some of the ideas of the 1980s under a Cameron Conservative administration. Give me that over a return to the 1970s under a re-elected Gordon Brown anytime.

 

[shtove]

Would be nice if they could do something to drive house prices down to an acceptable level where people in their mid to late twenties with a decent job can actually aford to buy something small. Just getting the banks to offer mortgages is not enough.

I worked in a small architect practice in Aberystwyth for a number of years (still do over summer), and saw first hand the reasons for the high house prices. The simple fact is that developers cannot sell a new house for less than £150+ thousand and expect to make a profit. This is all down to the rediculous prices building plots now go for. A single small plot surrounding Aberystwyth costs upwards of £100,000! This has all come about due to the green belts introduced to try and reduce load on the planning departments, where houses are only allowed to be built within a certain small band surrounding existing villiages, towns and cities.

My dad knows a few fellow farmers who were lucky enough to own a farm within these 'belts', one of them just sells another plot of land when we feels he needs more money. Roughly 10 plots are usually squeezed into an Acre. That means land with planning permission is worth ~ £1 million per Acre. Compare that with arable land, which according do dad sells for roughly £10,000 per Acre (depending on location and quality of course). 100 times less!!!!!!

Sorry, but this is just stupid. The farmers lucky enough to have owned a farm within these belts are laughing all the way to the bank, becoming instant multi millionares, yet the developers aremaking less and less profit tryign to keep prices down (even making losses on some of the affordable homes required within larger developments), and no-one can afford the bloody things!

I say, cap the price of land to say 100,000 and Acre (that's still a ten times increase over arrable land prices), then all of a sudden developers can start knocking anywhere between 70-90 thousand off the prices of hew houses (in an ideal world I know), which will in turn drive down the prices of the entire housing market.

Good post. My uncle in Ireland had his farmland zoned years ago, value €10m. Some of his neighbours got theirs, but he was still in the queue when the credit crunch hit. Will never see the money. And the stuff that got sold? Valued at 20% purchase price, and 20% of Ireland's housing stock is vacant. That's not just stupid - it's INSANE. At least he has farmland - good value when people start begging for food in our post-socialism hell.

Zoning has an affect on supply, but the biggest factor in land prices was easy credit from the bankers. So they should be bankrupt now, with their lenders taking 80% haircuts on development land - right? No, they passed the losses onto the taxpayer. We live in a dictatorship without jackboots.That goes for UK as well - huge price declines coming. ******* genius - fleece the people, then get them to pay for the bailout by jacking up taxes, move to Monaco/Antigua/Seychelles. Actually, the Square Mile is the biggest tax haven in the world - all those non-doms. The UK has nukes, yeah? Just one of those babies on Threadneedle St, problem solved.

I disagree with price fixing of land. Never works. Let the lenders go bust along with their amateur developers, prices adjust, way cleared for proper investors.

BTW - is the architect's firm still in business? I spoke to a plasterer the other day who said there is more construction work in Dorset, but at very low prices. Doesn't expect improvement for two years. Alot more construction around my area, white vans clogging up the pavements on small suburban renovations. And gubmint throwing money at roadworks as well - the endless ******* roadworks!

 

[shtove]

They can't just cut tax credits, they need to consider the alternative very carefully or people will go past the poverty line.

What is the poverty line? Is that where they say someone is earning £6k a year without pointing out all the benefits received from the state? Housing benefit is worth £7k a year minimum. Income support. Disability benefit. Carer's benefit. Child benefit AND child tax credit (with 2 kids, usually about £400 a month). Working tax credit. My-feet-are-too-swollen-from-junkfood-diabetes-to-press-the-accelerator-so-I-need-an-adapted-car-for-free benefit. Council tax benefit. Don't-have-to-pay-tax benefit. What about right to buy for council tenants? Many of them did buy, and some sold into the height of the property bubble - £100k tax free profit, thank you very much, and they returned to council accomodation. I've seen it! Sweet jesus.

That's not including "free" health and education, because those are shared by the average worker (although it does show up in his tax bill). But it adds up. National average wage - about £25k, outside London probably under £20k. How much do you take home? And do you really want to subsidise others who can't be bothered, people who actually compete with you for the basics?

 

[dullonien]

BTW - is the architect's firm still in business?

Yup, will hopefully be going back over summer. Went in to talk with them over Easter and they had plenty of work, although contracts from Aberystwyth University and the National Library of Wales had dried up. Alot of small stuff to do though, extensions, small builds etc.

 

[Versus]

What is the poverty line? Is that where they say someone is earning £6k a year without pointing out all the benefits received from the state? Housing benefit is worth £7k a year minimum. Income support. Disability benefit. Carer's benefit. Child benefit AND child tax credit (with 2 kids, usually about £400 a month). Working tax credit. My-feet-are-too-swollen-from-junkfood-diabetes-to-press-the-accelerator-so-I-need-an-adapted-car-for-free benefit. Council tax benefit. Don't-have-to-pay-tax benefit. What about right to buy for council tenants? Many of them did buy, and some sold into the height of the property bubble - £100k tax free profit, thank you very much, and they returned to council accomodation. I've seen it! Sweet jesus.

That's not including "free" health and education, because those are shared by the average worker (although it does show up in his tax bill). But it adds up. National average wage - about £25k, outside London probably under £20k. How much do you take home? And do you really want to subsidise others who can't be bothered, people who actually compete with you for the basics?

How about the, I'm too drunk that I can't go to work tomorrow or, I drink myself silly that I will live on disability due to liver disease. Heaps of people have addictions and problems, like I'm sure you have alcohol dependency. Fact is, people pay taxes on fatty foods, just like you pay tax on alcohol so the NHS gets money from it all so does DWP.

I'm sorry you haven't got any real problems, but my brother has type 1 diabetes and do your ******* research before you do labelling it off, it is type 2 diabetes that is from ''junk food''. If you really want to get down to it, both are genetic, type 2 is only activated by alcohol and junk food, but mostly alcohol, so it is the genetic lottery.

My main gripe is people with ''back problems'', I've got back problems, hell I've got arthritis but I still play rugby, work and university. It bothers me sometimes but you just have to get up and live, yet most people **** about and use it as an excuse not to work.

 

[Versus]

What a ******* load of utter ******** you regularly spout.

I'm sorry, can't hear nothing but **** coming from your <s>mouth</s> ass.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Heaps of people have addictions and problems, like I'm sure you have alcohol dependency.

What the?
How'd you jump to that conclusion?

 

[Versus]

 

[Versus]

What the?
How'd you jump to that conclusion?

I'm sorry, because the British don't like drinking, my mistake. Must have mistaken all those pubs on every corner for candy stores.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm sorry, because the British don't like drinking, my mistake. Must have mistaken all those pubs on every corner for candy stores.

Not debating that, you just said shtove was alcohol dependent, i was just wondering why you thought that?

 

[Versus]

Well, not dependent, but I bet the majority of people couldn't go a year without touching alcohol. Generalising like he was, because at the end of the day, it is a stupid comment, like his.

 

[Teh Mite]

Versus acusing other people of generalisations... That's the funniest thing I've read all day.