Transfers rumours

[Peat]

I don't regard players moving abroad to attend schools for rugby reasons as not poaching. I don't think picking such players represents the moral high ground. Its probably better than Thomas Waldrom, but neither strikes me as a case for genuine national affiliation if we're getting all pure about players representing countries.

But I don't really care, the rules aren't getting changed because more countries benefit than don't, and I find dictating to people what nationality they are, or what they should believe about it, pointless. The main point is that the NZ union is clearly happy to take players of less than unblemished Kiwi'ness, and would probably take more if there were more worth taking, and therefore accusing us of a lack of shame is a cool story.

Tbh England should probably go for it, less of the not very good flash in the pan Kiwis our coachs seem enamoured of and in return we stop our Celtic cousins skimming our talent pools, but there we go.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Beno Obano: Wasps Academy --> Bath
George Wacokecoke: Saints Academy --> Bath

Both have been named in the Bath United squad to play the Army tonight.
I've not seen anything saying they've been released by Wasps or Saints and the team announcement doesn't shed any light on their situation other than the fact that they're playing for us.
Great bit of business if they are in fact permanent.

 

[profitius]

Darren O'Shea from Munster to Gloucester.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Beno Obano: Wasps Academy --> Bath
George Wacokecoke: Saints Academy --> Bath

Both have been named in the Bath United squad to play the Army tonight.
I've not seen anything saying they've been released by Wasps or Saints and the team announcement doesn't shed any light on their situation other than the fact that they're playing for us.
Great bit of business if they are in fact permanent.

Bath the stealers of young talent from other clubs.

Makes an unwelcomed change to the bath we all loved the Leicester tigers semi retirement home.

 

[Thingimubob]

Born in a country or have lived there for 5+ years.

People can talk BS about being born in England but feel more Irish because of grandparents...fine, they should live 5 years in Ireland.

The big problem with taking out the ancestry rule, is that it just wouldn't work in a place like the UK. Taking out all non-UK born players currently playing for the four home nations, I'd wager that there's certainly plenty of players who weren't actually born in the country they represent, but in another one of the home nations. This is because while we are 4 separate nations, the "United" part of the UK means that the lines are increasingly blurred as to where people actually live.
Take Alex Cuthbert, has a Welsh mum, has said in interviews that he grew up supporting Wales and dreamed of playing for Wales. However he grew up over the border in Gloucestershire and went to Hartbury College, before transferring to UWIC and the Blues development structure in 2008. This means by your criteria he wouldn't have been eligible for Wales when he made his senior debut in 2011, let alone his Sevens appearances from 2009 onwards!
I know it's a completely different situation to that of Anscombe, but seeing as the two qualify for Wales the same way, just thought I'd point out a big flaw in cutting that out.

Anyway, as Bluemoon said, this would be a cracking signing for the Blues, as the squad has pretty much been running on one flyhalf since Patchell got ruled out for the season. That flyhalf is also leaving for London Welsh, so they badly need another quality no.10 in the squad as a new option, and to help Patchell develop too. Being able to play 15 certainly doesn't hurt considering the sizeable hole Halfpenny leaves in the squad.

For Wales though, do we really need him? We have two fly halves player excellently atm in Dan Biggar and Owen Williams, another two coming along nicely development wise in Patchell and Sam Davies, add to that James Hook, and the possibility of Priestland somehow rediscovering his RWC 2011 form, then I'd imagine we're relatively set!
However, if he decides he wants to come over and try his luck playing for Wales, then he's more than welcome as he's Welsh qualified, whether you like the rules or not.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Take Alex Cuthbert, has a Welsh mum, has said in interviews that he grew up supporting Wales and dreamed of playing for Wales. However he grew up over the border in Gloucestershire and went to Hartbury College, before transferring to UWIC and the Blues development structure in 2008.

I know I've said it before but this is BS. I know people who went to hartpury in his year and he was an England fan up until Wales 7s held trials at UWIC.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'm calling ******** on that too - talk is cheap.

 

[Thingimubob]

Fair, I've been proven wrong!
Point still stands though, taking out the ancestry rule completely means he would've been ineligible, which just seems a bit odd considering (no matter who he supported as a kid) that he still would have had a very strong link to Wales through his mum. I know plenty of people who have one Welsh parent and one English parent, and the banter is always phenomenal come 6 Nations time, be hard to imagine that Cuthbert's family were any different (again, speculating a bit here I guess).

 

[Draggs]

Haha - I'd be suprised if Anscombe could find Wales on a map. People who think he considers himself Welsh are kidding themselves - it wasn't longer than 2012 than Gareth Anscombe said he was going to stay in New Zealand because he said he was a kiwi and didn't want to play elsewhere.

Okay, I'll say it. Does no one in the NH have any shame? The eligability rules really need to be revised...

NH? Look at Samoa, worst of them all.

ignoring eligibility, I don't think Anscombe is better than Biggar or possibly Williams.

 

[Thingimubob]

After reading a few of the Welsh and NZ articles about Anscombe, they all seem to mention Wales' "fly half woes". Since when did we have fly half woes :huh: Only woe is that Priestland keeps getting selected, Biggar has played well in pretty much every game he's been picked for in the past 2 years, and we have plenty of back up waiting in the wings.

 

[lynam1104]

Anscombe isn't the answer to Wales FH issues, however he looks like a good FB who can fill in at 10.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Bath the stealers of young talent from other clubs.

Makes an unwelcomed change to the bath we all loved the Leicester tigers semi retirement home.

As far as I am aware you cannot approach academy members - so either they've been released or they're just on loan.
Athough I can't see why academy players would be loaned out to another premiership club (particularly when said club's training base is Farleigh!).

 

[Draggs]

After reading a few of the Welsh and NZ articles about Anscombe, they all seem to mention Wales' "fly half woes". Since when did we have fly half woes :huh: Only woe is that Priestland keeps getting selected, Biggar has played well in pretty much every game he's been picked for in the past 2 years, and we have plenty of back up waiting in the wings.

Yep, completely agree. Have we forgotten Patchell and Sam Davies? Owen Williams looks promising too, really a coming along nicely.

 

[ruggabee]

National identity is a very grey area these days. In Anscombe's case I have a feeling he sees this Welsh venture as an opportunity for international due to high competition for the AB 10 jersey but he does have Welsh blood. I'm sure having a Welsh mother would very much have given him some close ties to family back in Wales and he'll understand/feel what it's like to be Welsh. However, we can't go ruling out eligibility rules because they weren't born there or didn't live there a certain amount of years. Families are on the move all over the world and there are many who identify themselves with a country they were not born in nor lived in just due to their cultural upbringing within a family who did come from there. To discount people due to location of birth or upbringing is backward and doesn't have a place in the globalised world we live in today. A personal example is that I have an Irish mother and passport but was born in England, never grew up in Ireland (apart from the yearly holidays visiting family), and don't even sound Irish yet I identify myself as Irish because that's how my family brought me up as we moved from place to place. I can tell you it would be heart breaking to be told that you can't play for the country you identify with because of such narrow ruling. In Anscombe's case lets see if it's made official and I'm sure then we will get a more in depth view from him. I don't think Wales neeed him but it's always good to have more players to pick from!

 

[Peat]

As far as I am aware you cannot approach academy members - so either they've been released or they're just on loan.
Athough I can't see why academy players would be loaned out to another premiership club (particularly when said club's training base is Farleigh!).

The likelihood of Wakokecoke being released seems pretty small from the buzz and Obano's name is one I've heard a few times as well. Odd one this.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Wasps fans seem to think it's plausible Obano's been released/not-renewed because they haven't seen him play since last season's u18 games.
That and a promo video of him was put on YT recently.

Wacokecoke's dad seems to be in the Army so that could be why he's playing - tenuous but that's all I can find.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Could they be going to Bath uni next year?
Henry Thomas switched from the Bath academy to ours when he joined Manchester Uni

 

[Peat]

The video on YT sounds like new club hunting sure enough.

There's people making longer commutes than Bath to Northampton amongst students (I think) for pro rugby - and closer unis as well.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Born in a country or have lived there for 5+ years.

People can talk BS about being born in England but feel more Irish because of grandparents...fine, they should live 5 years in Ireland.

I was born in England and have lived there my whole life, but was raised by Welsh parents and bullied as the Welsh kid in school. The rugby and sense of identity it gave me was my salvation through all of this. Under your rules, I would not be eligible to play for what I consider my country. None of pain and misery during childhood would have been worthwhile.

However, the difference here is that I, whilst I shall never get the chance, would be passionate about playing for Wales. Anscombe would simply want to play test rugby. Personally, I don't want anyone playing for Wales who wouldn't give anything and everything for the shirt and the flag. That doesn't just include Andries Pretorious or possibly Gareth Anscombe (We'll see how he really feels if he arrives), but the likes of Lou Reed who are clearly too lazy to put the effort in when given the chance. Hanno Dirksen, on the other hand, strikes me as genuinely passionate about Wales, despite only being qualified on residency, so I am all for him playing for us.

I don't think the rules need revising, I just think coaches need to be sensible.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

To qualify for Wales you must be willing to sign a 5yr contract at Newport.