Transfers rumours

[munstermuffin]

1 try every 4 games with the most dominant team in the Premiership supplying you isn't what most people would call scoring tries for fun.

But if you look at his record in big games it was superb. When you look at only Luke I think of all Leinsters wingers is 1 in 4 games or better. I think it's good record he had there.
For what it worth in 99 appearances he scored 29 tries which averages 1 try every 3.41 games. Not saying Johnes great but just to compare your 1 in 4 is poorish.
Trimble has 1 every 2.98 games (179)
Bowe 1 every 2.5 games (115)
Both are over Ulster careers

Luke Fitz: 1 every 4 games (124)
Dave Kearney 1 every 5.23 games (68)
McFadden 1 every 6.63 games (106)
Earls 1 every 3.39 games (95)
Zebo 1 every 2.38 games (62)
Gilroy 1 every 4.05 games (81)

Caps in brackets

Compared with now Johne has 1 in every 6.5 games for Munster

 

[ratsapprentice]

To compare him with other Leicester wingers:

Nikki Goneva has scored 15 tries in 26 games - a try every 1.7 games.
Alesana Tuilagi scored 46 tries in 109 games - a try every 2.3 games.
Tom Varndell scored 45 tries in 81 games - a try every 1.8 games.

The latter two are his contemporaries at the Tigers.

 

[munstermuffin]

To compare him with other Leicester wingers:

Nikki Goneva has scored 15 tries in 26 games - a try every 1.7 games.
Alesana Tuilagi scored 46 tries in 109 games - a try every 2.3 games.
Tom Varndell scored 45 tries in 81 games - a try every 1.8 games.

The latter two are his contemporaries at the Tigers.

My friend Tuilagi had 63 tries in 162 appearances averaging 1 every 2.57 games
Varndell had impressively 65 in 112 appearances which is apparently 1 every 1.6/1.7

Murphy never had Tuilagis power which was an asset and he was good player. Or Varndells speed. Varndell could've be a star of game if not cursed with injuries
Goneva has 22 tries in 41 appearances which is 1 every 1.86 games. All better players than Johne but my original point is that either all Irish wingers are crap or it's a lot harder to get them in Pro12. For some Irish guys in UK they may look good to very good but they come to Pro12 and get exposed to more frequent viewings and a lot of time they're nothing better than squad players.
Only genuine guys I can think off top of my head are Cullen Reddan and Jennings that came back as "vital" players.

 

[lynam1104]

Add Rossy to that list MM.

 

[munstermuffin]

Add Rossy to that list MM.

Can agree. He slipped my mind but after that I can't think of many

 

[ratsapprentice]

My friend Tuilagi had 63 tries in 162 appearances averaging 1 every 2.57 games
Varndell had impressively 65 in 112 appearances which is apparently 1 every 1.6/1.7

That's in all competitions, not solely in the premiership.

I can't think of any Irish wingers who have been anything more than squad players in the premiership.
I'm not sure why you'd think they were ever anything more than that in the first place?
Particularly in the case of Leicester who are well known for being an absurdly dominant team (particularly at that time).
Tom Varndell's try scoring rate went from a try every 1.8 games at Leicester to a try every 2.6 games at Wasps.
I don't think Johne's try scoring rate at Leicester was particularly impressive in the first place, but it would have been significantly less so if he played at a different club.

Unless you're saying that people look at the try scoring rates of someone playing in the premiership and directly compare them to guys in the pro12?
But from a cursory glance the try scoring rates looks quite similar?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Always like Johne Murphy when he was at Leicester, He played the typical 2nd fullback mold that Leicester like to do. (Morris, Scully, Hamilton, G.Murphy) the recent players to be used in this role.

Tigers game plan usually involved a skilful attacking Fullback (Murphy, Tait, Stimpson), an out and out finisher (Goneva, Varndell, A.Tualgi) and a solid 2nd winger who could both cover fullback and finish when needed (Morris, Hamilton, Scully, J.Murphy) so if you were to compare try ratios it should be with those players imo.

I think if Murphy had carried on at Leicester it may have helped his Ireland career more as he was established if you compare the fact he has been at Munster the same amount of time as he was at tigers.

Murphy was underrated by a lot of people but he did his job at tigers very well.

Just out of interest Tigers have a very good track record with Irish players coming over to them and improving and becoming fan favourites.
G. Murphy (Tigers Legend no more needs to be said),
Eric Miller (Got his first irish cap while playing for Leicester and was also in the B&I lions whilst playing for us),
Shane Jennings (Was playing well for Leinster but was behind Gleeson, and Backy convinced him to come to Tigers played extremely well, went back to Leinster as a starter replaced the legendary Neil Back),
Jeremy Staunton (Was getting a bad track record at other clubs became a journeyman, Tigers needed a Fly half to cover internationals and he was available and he did very well helping us win some key games and was well liked by tiger fans, now is a regular at tiger games)
Leo Cullen (My second favourite Irish import behind G.Murphy came when our leader retired and we had a huge hole in the 2nd row to fill he came over and steadied what could have been a bumpy ride but despite only being at Tigers for 2 seasons he had 56 caps and 15 of which he was captain, he brought into the Tigers environment and I would like to think he brought some of it back to Leinster, a great player in his short spell at us).
Nail Morris (been a tigers favourite for a bit now signed a new deal in 2013, hopefully he is here for the long run)

 

[Groundhog]

He's not been a try machine but Johne has been great for us this season. Arguably our best back in the pool stages

 

[munstermuffin]

@Rats my point is Johne is only squad player but people do look at try scoring rates but in England it seems easier to look better as defenses aren't as great as Pro12.

@Tigs I'd agree with all that and Johne is superb for us as squad man as he covers 15,14,11,13 and now is playing 10 too with JJ out and us having no other 10 registered for HEC.

@Ground I'd agree he's been our best back in pools and if I be fair I'd say Johne has it harder than most as he doesn't get string of games consistently and never seems to be kept in same position either

 

[ratsapprentice]

@Rats my point is Johne is only squad player but people do look at try scoring rates but in England it seems easier to look better as defenses aren't as great as Pro12.

Don't know how you've come to that conclusion...

As I've pointed out Murphy was playing for one of the most consistently dominant teams in English domestic rugby's history - and even then his try scoring record wasn't particularly impressive.
The try scoring stats on the pro12 website suggest that the number of tries scored in the pro12 and Premiership are extremely similar - with the top ten scorers generally being in the 6-13 range.

 

[munstermuffin]

Don't know how you've come to that conclusion...

As I've pointed out Murphy was playing for one of the most consistently dominant teams in English domestic rugby's history - and even then his try scoring record wasn't particularly impressive.
The try scoring stats on the pro12 website suggest that the number of tries scored in the pro12 and Premiership are extremely similar - with the top ten scorers generally being in the 6-13 range.

Just in general most tries scored in Pro12 are extremely harder work. It's just an opinion as I said

 

[goodNumber10]

Just in general most tries scored in Pro12 are extremely harder work. It's just an opinion as I said

I'm struggling to see how you have come to that consusion... the general opinion is that Aviva is far more physical defence orientated rugby than the Pro12 which was always waved as an example of running rugby.

 

[goodNumber10]

*Edit, this was in reply to Rats

average trys in Aviva:
542 (average 4.015 per match)

average in Pro12:
536 (average 3.97 per match)

which would back you're point somewhat.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm struggling to see how you have come to that consusion... the general opinion is that Aviva is far more physical defence orientated rugby than the Pro12 which was always waved as an example of running rugby.

Maybe he means because the standard of rugby is lower teams struggle to score tries because of poor handling and a lower attacking skillset.

:lol:

 

[munstermuffin]

Maybe he means because the standard of rugby is lower teams struggle to score tries because of poor handling and a lower attacking skillset.

:lol:

I suppose that's backed up by the English teams record in HEC. So good they forget to easily dispose of Pro12 and incidentally a lot of Pro12 teams have BP wins in Europe away to English teams.

My point is simply yes the styles are different and for some backs like Sheridan at LI or Morris at Leicester that while being very good players
they wouldn't be as high up pecking order here

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I suppose that's backed up by the English teams record in HEC.

What, better than the Irish? :huh:

My point is simply yes the styles are different and for some backs like Sheridan at LI

Starting for the Not Nots isn't exactly setting the world ablaze, and he's not been that great there either - he's benefited massively from Guy Armitage's injury.

 

[munstermuffin]

What, better than the Irish? :huh:


Starting for the Not Nots isn't exactly setting the world ablaze, and he's not been that great there either - he's benefited massively from Guy Armitage's injury.

Olyy no my point was a reply to previous comment that was said Pro12 defences are so poor but Ospreys have got a try scoring BP as have 3 Irish provinces I think in recent times.

Regards Sheridan my point is exactly that. Some Irish guys go over and look the good and some think they're excellent. I'm not slamming the Premiership as there are some superb players. But it's same as maybe a English guy coming toPro12 and looking great. Maybe systems suit

 

[ratsapprentice]

The point that's being made is that the players that you're saying have come over and look "great" simply don't.

 

[munstermuffin]

Olyy no my point was a reply to previous comment that was said Pro12 defences are so poor but Ospreys have got a try scoring BP as have 3 Irish provinces I think in recent times.

Regards Sheridan my point is exactly that. Some Irish guys go over and look the good and some think they're excellent. I'm not slamming the Premiership as there are some superb players. But it's same as maybe a English guy coming toPro12 and looking great. Maybe systems suit

And for what it's worth Ireland has same record as English in Europe and Pro12 has same as English league in finals

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The point that's being made is that the players that you're saying have come over and look "great" simply don't.

Yeah, that was my point.
MM named Sheridan but he looks average at best and wouldn't be playing if Armitage was fit. It's not like he's come over and looks great - I know LI fans aren't happy with the amount of game time he's getting.