The Lions squad for 2021 prediction

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Te'o and VDM. Wuss really trying hard to kill what the Lions stand for... My new second team.


I'd back being a citizen of one of the 2 countries to be an Irish and British Lion tbh. It still means guys like Stander can play which isn't ideal for everyone but both countries have a requirement of living and working for five years to gain citizenship so it's a fair rule for all.

That acc seems like the most sensible solution!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Pretty sure if someone is eligible for any of B&I Lions countries who was not selected on these ground due to an actual policy would have a field day. Not only would the legal battle be expensive but they'd also have took out things like potential future earnings. If it were found out Gatland and his team had any discussion along these lines and then didn't select VDM they'd also be opening themselves up for litigation.

There's an entirely difference discussion about if VDM should be selected on talent.

The problem is with international eligibility levels and those have to apply to B&I Lions like any other national team unless you want tons of litgation costing the sport and tour.

They'd probably have to class themselves as something other than an international side, which I'm all for, you shouldn't get international test caps for playing when not playing for a country. While playing as an international side they're subject to all the rules that come with it.

Sma change that would legitimise the thing a whole lot more for me.

 

[ncurd]

They'd probably have to class themselves as something other than an international side, which I'm all for, you shouldn't get international test caps for playing when not playing for a country. While playing as an international side they're subject to all the rules that come with it.

Sma change that would legitimise the thing a whole lot more for me.

Even if they did I imagine they'd still have a legal battle on their hands once any international player isn't eligible on those grounds. I'm not a lawyer so I have no idea of their chance of success but I can't imagine there isn't a legal case to fight and someone would definitely bring it, Bosman and Kolpak prove that.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Even if they did I imagine they'd still have a legal battle on their hands once any international player isn't eligible on those grounds. I'm not a lawyer so I have no idea of their chance of success but I can't imagine there isn't a legal case to fight and someone would definitely bring it, Bosman and Kolpak prove that.

I think they'd be fine to be honest. Athletic Club have only ever played players from the Basque region and most club sides have policies restricting foreign player numbers even within the EU free travel area and then you have examples like the Maori outside EU jurisdictions, which is the main barrier here with Ireland's inclusion. It would be a bit of a test case so I couldn't say for sure but I'd be surprised if they couldn't.

I don't see it happening because the blazers won't want to give up the "prestige" of international caps but I think it'd go a long way to giving fans what they want from the Lions.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yeah I appreciate that and I didn't mean to imply that was his position I'm just trying to get to what his actual views are or better put, what are his limits for what is ok and what is not ok. Where does he draw the line?

I'm not massively keen on Van de Merwe but I don't think he should be lumped in with people like Stander. Basically it's quite hard and I don't think it's black and white. As I say, I think most people would be happy if they just raised the residency rule to 5 years.

I think any kid under the age of majority should be okay. Unless he's emancipated, then he didn't really have a choice of moving to the country, and is only going there because his parents got a job there, or are fleeing their own home country.

Same issue can be said for Beast and the springboks. I think many people like to use beast as the prime example that SA are also using "imports", but then they don't consider the severe poverty, mass killings, and their people seeking asylum and fleeing to SA on a daily basis. It was even worse when Mugabe was their president. And their total control of the country's media, has been ideal in blocking out the situation to the general public.

My issue, is with guys from lets, use the age of majority (18 or 21, depending on the country) who make the choice to pick money over country and to go to a country they have no personal ties with, nor visited at any point in their lives prior to making this choice because money is being thrown at them.

They are not loyal, and they are only in it for the money.

 

[McTallshort]

I think any kid under the age of majority should be okay. Unless he's emancipated, then he didn't really have a choice of moving to the country, and is only going there because his parents got a job there, or are fleeing their own home country.

Same issue can be said for Beast and the springboks. I think many people like to use beast as the prime example that SA are also using "imports", but then they don't consider the severe poverty, mass killings, and their people seeking asylum and fleeing to SA on a daily basis. It was even worse when Mugabe was their president. And their total control of the country's media, has been ideal in blocking out the situation to the general public.

My issue, is with guys from lets, use the age of majority (18 or 21, depending on the country) who make the choice to pick money over country and to go to a country they have no personal ties with, nor visited at any point in their lives prior to making this choice because money is being thrown at them.

They are not loyal, and they are only in it for the money.

You are absolutely correct and yes the residency rule has been exploited. Do you think any Englishman is happy seeing Brad Shields turn up with an English relative and move straight into the England squad having spent years trying to be capped by NZ? or seeing Riki Flutey playing for the Lions in 09 having once played against them with the NZ Mori?

But thats the selection criteria for International teams and it needs to be consistent. If you qualify to play international rugby for England, Ireland, Wales or Scotland then you qualify for Lions selection. That's the facts.

Also many SA players can to the Uk and Ireland for similar reasons to the ones the Beast left Zimbabwe for.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think any kid under the age of majority should be okay. Unless he's emancipated, then he didn't really have a choice of moving to the country, and is only going there because his parents got a job there, or are fleeing their own home country.

Same issue can be said for Beast and the springboks. I think many people like to use beast as the prime example that SA are also using "imports", but then they don't consider the severe poverty, mass killings, and their people seeking asylum and fleeing to SA on a daily basis. It was even worse when Mugabe was their president. And their total control of the country's media, has been ideal in blocking out the situation to the general public.

My issue, is with guys from lets, use the age of majority (18 or 21, depending on the country) who make the choice to pick money over country and to go to a country they have no personal ties with, nor visited at any point in their lives prior to making this choice because money is being thrown at them.

They are not loyal, and they are only in it for the money.

Thanks for clarifying. People do come to the UK to escape extreme poverty and violence though. Just as people come to the UK (mainly England) in search of a better job or
Life prospects.

For me I'm less concerned about what age they were when they moved here but how long they have spent in the country.

 

[MACCA]

I think any kid under the age of majority should be okay. Unless he's emancipated, then he didn't really have a choice of moving to the country, and is only going there because his parents got a job there, or are fleeing their own home country.

Same issue can be said for Beast and the springboks. I think many people like to use beast as the prime example that SA are also using "imports", but then they don't consider the severe poverty, mass killings, and their people seeking asylum and fleeing to SA on a daily basis. It was even worse when Mugabe was their president. And their total control of the country's media, has been ideal in blocking out the situation to the general public.

My issue, is with guys from lets, use the age of majority (18 or 21, depending on the country) who make the choice to pick money over country and to go to a country they have no personal ties with, nor visited at any point in their lives prior to making this choice because money is being thrown at them.

They are not loyal, and they are only in it for the money.

I don't have any issues with any of the players involved and I think that it is poor to pick on any one of them. I do not think it is fair to criticise the player when the real complaint is with the rule maker. I believe that is where complaints should be aimed. To be vitriolic towards VDeM is patently unfair. He has no right of reply. There have been other Lions in the past whose circumstances are similar. Also Aki from this tour. These players have done nothing wrong.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I don't have any issues with any of the players involved and I think that it is poor to pick on any one of them. I do not think it is fair to criticise the player when the real complaint is with the rule maker. I believe that is where complaints should be aimed. To be vitriolic towards VDeM is patently unfair. He has no right of reply. There have been other Lions in the past whose circumstances are similar. Also Aki from this tour. These players have done nothing wrong.

Nobody is saying they are?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I think it's fair game.
Not like the other players didn't get it either lol
Te'o and Flutey especially.

At least Aki has been in Ireland for 7 years (Will be 9 years end of this contract) and never played age grade rugby for NZ.

Duhan left South Africa for France, then left for Scotland played for Edinburgh 3 years got capped and not even 1 season after getting capped goes for the big money move to Worcester, and has South Africa U20 caps.

Not like he cares what we say he's going to make 450K next season and play International rugby.
But find the comparison with Aki laughable.

 

[MACCA]

Nobody is saying they are?

Just look at Akker van der Tigs comments to see the personalisation of the issue. The players are not fair game. The rules are fair game. It's a short career and the players surely can't be criticised for making the most for themselves and their family.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Just look at Akker van der Tigs comments to see the personalisation of the issue. The players are not fair game. The rules are fair game. It's a short career and the players surely can't be criticised for making the most for themselves and their family.

The players are fair game if they want to be mercenaries. He's not attacking their character

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Why not?

As Mike Brown smelly socks said I'm not going after VDM personally.

You are just assuming that.

 

[MACCA]

Why not?

As Mike Brown smelly socks said I'm not going after VDM personally.

You are just assuming that.

"I think it's fair game." is what you said

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yeh it's fair game to criticize players using the system so to the unions

Still isn't a personal attack on their character

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Duhan reading Tigs' posts

 

[MACCA]

Yeh it's fair game to criticize players using the system so to the unions

Still isn't a personal attack on their character

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

 

[MACCA]

I think that should you consider what you said and the meaning of mercenary and you will find it was a personal attack.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I think that should you consider what you said and the meaning of mercenary and you will find it was a personal attack.

Do you believe he is not a mercenary?