Test Match 2: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Wellington)

[Truth]

If I was to pick an area for the Lions to attack, it would be the All Black midfield. I'm not convinced that Laumape and Fekitoa can deliver like they do in Super. Both look like the best in the world at times in Super but each player may take a bit of time to transfer their line-breaking best to the test arena. Im going to say Fekitoa is nothing like the player he was initially picked for. Laumape hasn't really stood out for me in his toughest games this year (i.e Canes vs Crusaders, Canes vs Lions, ABs vs Lions) and its his experience that concerns me. Sexton/Farrell/Davies/Teo/Joseph will be a huge defensive test for our midfield should the Lions get the oppertunity to use them. Just look at Davies, he gets through us quite a bit.

 

[ALJ]

My God there is a lot of ignorance on this forum regarding citings, red cards etc. I suggest some of you need to read Regulation 17 from the WR website...

Link here : http://www.worldrugby.org/handbook/regulations/reg-17/reg-17

....so that, instead of spouting off stuff you know crap all about, you will be able to proceed from a position of actually knowing what you are talking about

I've explained it all several times before, I can't be bothered doing it again

SC - Why do you think Vunipola avoided citing?

I must admit, I didn't think his 'clear out' was worthy of a red card but am conscious that I have my Lions tinted glasses on and (I think) you were pretty unquivocal about it being deserving of a red (apologies if I've got that wrong) so keen to understand what you think might have influenced the decision.

 

[Ground We Won]

Fekitoa has definitely become the most underrated player in world rugby.

I'm simply baffled by this.

I'm even willing to bet he will put in a close to MotM performance on Saturday if given the opportunity.

 

[McTallshort]

SOB not cited

 

[RedruthRFC]

So was the threat of bans for discussing refereeing decisions outside the refereeing thread a hollow one? It's going to be a quiet week on here if the mods are true to their word!

 

[ncurd]

So was the threat of bans for discussing refereeing decisions outside the refereeing thread a hollow one? It's going to be a quiet week on here if the mods are true to their word!

To be a pedant we weren't discussing a referee decision but the citing...

 

[RedruthRFC]

To be a pedant we weren't discussing a referee decision but the citing...

I didn't say who I was referring to. As a fellow pedant, I take your point, no mention was made of citing / disciplinary decisions, although it ignores the spirit of the refereeing decisions thread.

FWIW, the biggest problem appears to me to be people restating the same thing time and time again and a vocal faction with a tenuous grasp of English / comprehension to match their grasp of the laws / regulations of the game (not that I'm levelling any of these accusations at you).

 

[Larksea]

Bottom line if Sean's incident was reviewed in-game it would be a yellow card for unintentional contact to the head. Never a red in any situation.

direct contact to the head with force is a red card, intentional or not. Neither SBW or SOB's contact was "intentional" but they were both Red Card offenses.

unfortunately the fact that SBW's was picked up and SOB's wasn't pretty much decided the game.

 

[ncurd]

direct contact to the head with force is a red card, intentional or not. Neither SBW or SOB's contact was "intentional" but they were both Red Card offenses.

unfortunately the fact that SBW's was picked up and SOB's wasn't pretty much decided the game.

According to the citing commission SBW was a red card (which he plead guilty to) and was adjudged a to mid-level offence and he's copped a ban for it.

SOB's was cited then dismissed so didn't warrant an in-game red card.

@smartcooky can you weigh in in why you think Mako wasn't cited? I'm surprised SOB was and he wasn't.

 

[mania]

omg what a painful game.
i'm not an SBW hater but he def cost us this game. whats really annoying is (just as in league or gridiron) SBW had a clear shot at the ball. if he dropped his shoulder 10-15 cm's he wouldve dislodged the ball and been a hero.
poor kaino. so playing a team renowned for forward play so we take off our biggest hitting forward? ABs shouldve forced the lions to move it through the backs. the weather was on our side for a forward arm wrestle. kaino was screwed over.
i am a laumape fan but cant understand why he got on nor can i understand why ALB packed down in the scrum. why use the smallest player to pack down at 6? what was the point of that? ALB doesnt know anything about packing down in the scrum. his first scrum he had to be told not to bind to the props. furthermore laumape is a converted loosie and used to be an 8.
whilst the ref was a bit odd, he wasnt why the ABs lost.
lions defence was awesome, tho their discipline attrocious. beaudy really needed to make his kicks.

also when vunipola got sent off why didnt the ABs call a scrum on the penalty? forcing another forward to go off for a front row to come on? and then ABs shoulda started moving the ball around like they usually do? that yellow card wasnt capitlised on.

oh well sht happens. hope ABs dont get another red card this weekend

 

[Larksea]

SOB's was cited then dismissed so didn't warrant an in-game red card.

he was sited so it was deemed worthy of a red card and by the book its a red card. the fact it was dismissed just again shows how much of a lottery the judicial process is.

do you actually think a swinging arm to the head of a player that knocks them out cold and takes them out of the game is ok?

The main point is as I said, the contact doesn't need to be deemed "intentional" to be a red card, just direct contact to the head with force.

 

[valley commando]

Was he watching the same game as the rest of us?

Don't know what match you were watching but I can only echo several ex Lions and Gats observations, pre SBW 's red we were the better side, it can be difficult playing against 14 men for over 1/2 a match just ask Leinster after Stef Evans got sent off(semi final defeat to Scarlets this year) or Glasgow after Keith Earls got a red for Munster.
Same again next week for me both Warburton and AWJ's selection were vindicated, I say same again although Billy V needs a serious talking to and maybe Teo needs to come on after an hour.

 

[Larksea]

on the actual game, pretty obvious the SBW red cost us the game or at least prevented a fair contest And considering the lions only just won despite the all blacks being down to 14 for 3/4 of the game I'm not really concerned about the decider.

IMO there were other mistakes made as well I hope they learn from. I think dragging kaino off straight away to bring on a rookie was a mistake, I really dont see what the intention was it didn't benefit us at all. In the end we just had 2 fresh players sitting on the bench unable to take further part in the game.

Then to not use Nathan Harris at all? Has he done something or got an injury?

Crudens kicking has been getting on my nerves, hes has kicked away a lot of chances in these two tests when we have had great momentum and been building pressure.

It is kinda concerning that we are now without, Coles, Ben Smith, Crotty, SBW and potentially Naholo now too. Pack is looking ok but there is a lot of disruption in the backs. I think the disruption is preventing the ABs from their normal early season improvement. Its hard to build performance with games and disruption like this when it has become a trademark of the all blacks how much they improve over the first few tests each season.

It was bizarre that the swinging arm that knocked Naholo out cold didn't result in a check, replay showed it was worth a check and the siting commissioner obviously thought so too. Without reading too much into the judicial process which is and always has been a lottery. I think if that had been fairly given red we would have held out for a win or at the very least a penalty and yellow we would have held out. pretty fair considering it took Naholo out of the game, and maybe the series...

 

[ncurd]

he was sited so it was deemed worthy of a red card and by the book its a red card. the fact it was dismissed just again shows how much of a lottery the judicial process is.

If its dismissed the judicial committee decided it didn't warrant a red card either they are highest ruling body in the game or they are not. You can't use the fact the citing commissioner said it was as a way to get out the judicial committee decided it wasn't. That's like saying a lower court was right and higher court wasn't it just doesn't work that way.

 

[Larksea]

Don't know what match you were watching but I can only echo several ex Lions and Gats observations, pre SBW 's red we were the better side

a lot of teams look the better side against the all blacks for the first 20min... won by 3 points against 14 men, of course it decided the game.

 

[mania]

IMO there were other mistakes made as well I hope they learn from. I think dragging kaino off straight away to bring on a rookie was a mistake, I really dont see what the intention was it didn't benefit us at all. In the end we just had 2 fresh players sitting on the bench unable to take further part in the game.

agree agree agree
whilst being reduced to 14 isnt great , we didnt help ourselves. hasens call to sub kaino is baffling.
2 fresh players on the bench. yes i didnt consider that, what a waste. and kaino is the biggest hitter and a real contributor to the team
nathanHarris not to come on when taylor was struggling in the 2nd half is weird.
crudens been pssing me off for awhile. his first 2 kicks were counter productive.

naholo's not out. he passed his HIA but hansen took him off anyway just in case

 

[Larksea]

If its dismissed the judicial committee decided it didn't warrant a red card either they are highest ruling body in the game or they are not. You can't use the fact the citing commissioner said it was as a way to get out the judicial committee decided it wasn't. That's like saying a lower court was right and higher court wasn't it just doesn't work that way.

that's very naive thinking, the judicial system is an absolute lottery. The higher the ruling goes, the higher the stakes, it basically gets political, lawyers get involved and inconsistency reigns supreme. Bizarre scenarios like this are pretty common.

 

[Reiser99]

IMO there were other mistakes made as well I hope they learn from. I think dragging kaino off straight away to bring on a rookie was a mistake, I really dont see what the intention was it didn't benefit us at all. In the end we just had 2 fresh players sitting on the bench unable to take further part in the game.

I can understand some logic behind it. As people have said the scrum was dominant and so they could cope with a man down. The Lions were clearly playing a kicking game at the time and so they didn't need the big impact tackle as much, where as they needed to cover the backline. It was only late in the game that it changed. Also Kaino has been struggling to be 100% fit and so if they were going to have to play 80 mins a man down, you should take off the player who is likely to struggle the most by the end.

 

[valley commando]

Super Maro captaining the Lions is destiny, not a gamble.

I take it that you are joking.

 

[Larksea]

naholo's not out. he passed his HIA but hansen took him off anyway just in case

I thought I heard commentary say he failed HIA
if he actually passed that is a mistake as well. The replay showed he was actually knocked out from that hit. putting him back on would have been risking his welfare.