Summer tours - England

[BPM]

A note on Gustard ...

His time at Quins is now widely regarded as a failure which isn't entirely true/fair.

Taking any subjectivity out of it and looking purely at results/where we finished, we basically stood still under his leadership.

He did a lot of things wrong - fundamentally he tried to force Quins into becoming Saracens 2.0 which didn't suit the club, didn't suit the playing personnel and pi**ed everyone off along the way. Looking at how we're performing now, it's very clear that he got the gameplan and the communication mostly wrong.

However, he should also get some credit for what he did right. Overall, the signings he made have proved to be very good. Baldwin, Louw, Lewies, Evans, Esterhuizen, Green and Steele are all a key part of our 23 for example. There were also some things he encouraged/allowed - like the James Chisholm/real Sean Dyche thing for example, which don't suggest it was always an unhappy group.

If he learns from his mistakes and can reign in his ego/control freak tendencies, he could still become a good coach IMO. The fact that he's basically taken a step back might suggest that he's recognised some of his failings. Time will tell. Otherwise, he's kind of like Mike Ford MkII.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm not bothered that Amor's gone. I'm much more bothered why Jones felt he had the right credentials in the first place.

Times this morning said "Amor had the challenge of trying to win over the brains trust of the players Owen Farrell and George Ford who appeared to warm more to Ryles and his rugby league background". Whatever you think of that, and there are a couple of flashing red lights for me, any coach at that level has to have credibility in the eyes of the players; if they don't, it doesn't matter how brilliant their ideas might be.

 

[BPM]

That's fair. Although, in principle, I didn't hate the idea of the different perspective that a 7s coach could have brought to our attack. Clearly didn't work out though.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

A sevens guy as a skills coach would make more sense than an attack coach imo

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

OK for Canada game hear me out
10. M.Smith
12. Ford

EZ

 

[TRF_Olyy]

12. Ford

England's answer to Carlo Canna
#ppoowweerr

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ewan Ashman has turned down an invite from England to tour with them, this summer, to commit to Scotland
Bevan Rodd has turned down an invitation from Scotland saying he wants to play for England (not sure if he's had a call from England or just wants to keep his options open)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ewan Ashman has turned down an invite from England to tour with them, this summer, to commit to Scotland
Bevan Rodd has turned down an invitation from Scotland saying he wants to play for England (not sure if he's had a call from England or just wants to keep his options open)

Honestly England getting the better deal IMO.
Not saying Ashman isn't promising.
But Props are harder to find IMO.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, I rate Ashman very highly but George and LCD will be around for a while yet, it's hard to see anyone else getting a look in

 

[BPM]

Not to mention Barbeary. Obviously we have very limited evidence for him making it as a hooker right now, but if that's where he and Wasps want to end up, he'll be hard to compete with.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I refuse to entertain the idea of Barbeary at hooker until he's played at least one (1) second of senior rugby there within living memory

(his total senior career at hooker is 30mins off the bench in an LV= Cup game three years ago)

 

[BPM]

Fair enough. Even if we discount Barbeary, I'm not sure why we're trying to take Ashman when the likes of Capon and Blamire have been more impressive anyway.

 

[BPM]

Anyone got any more info on the England A fixture yet?

My main questions are:

1) Will this game 'capture' any players who are eligible for other countries?
2) Will this be a separate squad (as it usually is for the Barbarians game)?
3) Who is in charge of this squad? O'Shea?

 

[Geordie]

Fair enough. Even if we discount Barbeary, I'm not sure why we're trying to take Ashman when the likes of Capon and Blamire have been more impressive anyway.

Blamire is a rough diamond...but George McGuigans performances are blowing him out the water. He's one of the best in the league at the moment...
But at 28...is Jones going to bother looking at him in these games..

 

[Geordie]

So is the LH's for the Summer games likely to be:

Genge, Obano and Rodd then...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ashman looks way more promising than Capon and Blamire tbf, but he's gone now so no point crying over spilt milk

 

[BPM]

Does he? I agree that he's looked good, but not markedly better than the two I mentioned. 'Way more promising' seems a bit hyperbolic.

So is the LH's for the Summer games likely to be:

Genge, Obano and Rodd then...

Possibly? I wouldn't be too bothered if we gave Genge the summer off and went with Obano, West and Rodd.

Likewise on the tightheads. I'd go with Stuart and Heyes.

 

[Geordie]

Ashman looks way more promising than Capon and Blamire tbf, but he's gone now so no point crying over spilt milk

Blamire is a work in progress...he just needs to chisel away a couple of rough edges and he'll be quite a player. Hes a big aggressive unit. Just needs to learn abit of McGuigans nous, and craftyness. He needs to learn that the bull in a china shop is not always the best answer if that makes sense.

 

[Geordie]

Does he? I agree that he's looked good, but not markedly better than the two I mentioned. 'Way more promising' seems a bit hyperbolic.



Possibly? I wouldn't be too bothered if we gave Genge the summer off and went with Obano, West and Rodd.

Likewise on the tightheads. I'd go with Stuart and Heyes.

Genge is an odd one for me. We really havent seen his potential at England level yet...so im drawn to putting him in the squad to try to coax it out. However i can see the argument for not picking him and giving that 3 you listed ago.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Does he? I agree that he's looked good, but not markedly better than the two I mentioned. 'Way more promising' seems a bit hyperbolic.

Imo yes
I've not seen anything from Capon to suggest he has any sort of X factor about him - not that there's anything wrong with that, he's a very solid player with no real flaws, he's got a fine career ahead of him

Ashman just looks something special every time I've seen him - imagine if Akker had the ability to throw in to a lineout, and that's what Ashman looks like