South Africa - World Cup 2015 Discussion Thread

[TRF_heineken]

Now that there is an official World Cup directory, I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread about the Springboks and the World Cup.

Let's use this thread to talk about possible squad selections, injuries, plans, coaching, or any other interesting matter regarding the Springboks and the World Cup.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Well for definite you are going to end up first in our group no doubt about that. The main highlight off pool b is the 2nd place play-off.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well for definite you are going to end up first in our group no doubt about that. The main highlight off pool b is the 2nd place play-off.

Probably yeah, but we still have to play.

I see the first 2 Springbok training camps have been announced on the 3rd-6th of May and 31st May - 3rd of June:

Forwards: Ruan Botha, Heinrich Brüssow, Schalk Burger, Nizaam Carr, Robbie Coetzee, Lood de Jager, Eben Etzebeth, Steven Kitshoff, Vincent Koch, Siya Kolisi, Frans Malherbe, Bongi Mbonambi, Teboho Mohoje, Scarra Ntubeni, Coenie Oosthuizen, Michael Rhodes, Duane Vermeulen, Warren Whiteley. - Stormers, Lions and Cheetahs Forwards who will be attending both camps.

Arno Botha, Jacques du Plessis, Dean Greyling, Lappies Labuschagne, Victor Matfield, Trevor Nyakane, Pierre Spies, Adriaan Strauss, Marcel van der Merwe - Bulls Forwards who will only be attending the first camp as they will be on tour during the second camp.

Willem Alberts, Marcell Coetzee, Bismarck du Plessis, Jannie du Plessis, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Jean Deysel, Tendai Mtawarira, Lizo Gqoboka, Ryan Kankowski - Sharks Forwards who will only be at the second camp as they are on tour currently.

Backs: Demetri Catrakilis, Damian de Allende, Juan de Jongh, Faf de Klerk, Jean de Villiers, Nic Groom, Cornal Hendricks, Elton Jantjies, Cheslin Kolbe, Pat Lambie, Willie le Roux, Lionel Mapoe, Kobus van Wyk, Francois Venter - Stormers, Lions and Cheetahs Backs who will be attending both camps.

Bjorn Basson, Francois Hougaard, Jesse Kriel, Rudy Paige, Handré Pollard, Jan Serfontein, - Bulls Backs who will only be attending the first camp as they will be on tour during the second camp.

Lwazi Mvovo, JP Pietersen, Cobus Reinach, - Sharks Backs who will only be at the second camp as they are on tour currently.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I have my reservations for this tournament. In many ways I feel this will be a year too earlu for SA though I am excited for our post-2015 prospects.

Why do I feel this way? Mostly due to player form / selection though a lot can happen in the lead up to the tournament I suppose these are my concerns:

2. Bismarck has been abysmal this year. I would say though that like Ma'a Nonu he is also a player who's SR form should be taken with a pinch of salt as they are proven class at test level. In fariness to Nonu he has been on fire this year though. Willem Alberts is another player who gets lost in the pace and width of SR but you'll miss him in the tight stuff of test rugby, particulalry a RWC.
3. Jannie du Plessis has been in steady decline for good while now. His back up has either been a failed experiment (moving Oosthuizen from LH to TH) or injured on a consistent basis (Malherbe and MvdM). Vincent Koch is without doubt our premier TH at this stage with MvdM and Malherbe in tow. The problem though is that form reads Koch > MvdM > Malherbe > Oosthuizen > JdP while experience/test caps reads the exact opposite direction. How much will selection be swayed by the percieved requirement for test caps ahead of recent on-field performances?
4. Etzebeth is playing himself back into some form slowly but surely. Problem is he has been doing so over and over again only to get injured again.
5. Carbon copy of the Etzebeth situation but out by a year.
9. Reinach has been in fine form indeed. No problem other than will he be 1st choice? This is something of a theme of SA rugby ATM in that we have players in fine form but unfortunately they are either uncapped or test rookies. Some of them are only now involved in the wider training group for the first time; Koch/Malherbe/MvdM/PSdT/Reinach/Pollard/De Allende/Serfontein/Kriel.
11/14/15. In what form is Habana? I've not been overly impressed with the performances of our back threes in SR. Kriel is up and coming and exciting but I'd hesitate to put him in just now. Just look at his decision to kick the ball away with the Stormers in the lead at the death of a crunch game for example. JPP has been underwhelming. Playing out of position doesn't help. Don't even get me started on Le Roux! In fact I'd be more confident if we played non-wingers on our wings; Hougaard has been class in the Bulls no.14 shirt. If I wouldn't put him in at 15 I wouldn't mind seeing Kriel on the wing. De Allende could do well on a wing if JdV, F Steyn or Serfontein were to pip him for the no.12 jersey. Which brings me to the centers actually. How are we going to manage that? All the encumbants have been playing at 12. Of our current active 13's Venter and Mapoe have been the most consistant in delivering good performances but are playing in the 'poorer' teams and would probably be considered left field picks.

Just too many question marks at this stge IMO.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Really Stormer???

I have a much different point of view, and it's a bit more positive.

I'm going to go by positions:

1. At Loosehead we have Beast and Nyakane as the incumbents with the prospect of Steven Kitshoff who is knocking hard on the door. I would personally play Kitshoff and Nyakane on the bench. Nyakane has been one of the leading pilferers in the Bulls team this year, but Kitshoff gets the nod ahead of due to his scrummaging power.
2. I'm willing to wait and see what Bismarck now does after his suspension, and also now that he has given up his captaincy (which I think he never should've gotten in the first place). He and Strauss will be our 2 main selections at hooker, and then we have Robbie Coetzee and Scarra as back-up. Scarra just needs to work on his Line out throws.
3. The inclusion of Koch, Coenie and MvdM, makes me think that HM has seen that Jannie isn't our no.1 tighthead anymore... Perhaps we will see a lot of changes in this position with Redelinghuys also in the midst.
4. Eben has been getting better and we all hope he stays injury free. But Jacques Du Plessis has been one of the standouts this year in this position which I think fits him better than flank.
5. Lood, Victor and PSDT... All had injuries and all of them are now recovered from it, They are pretty good at their job for the Boks so I'm not so much worried.
6. Brussouw, Francois Louw, Lappies and Marcel... DAMN!!
7. Schalla, Willem Alberts, Teboho Mohoje, Arno Botha... Those are some big guys who make big impacts!!
8. Duane, Warren & Spies... And in that order... How awesome is it that we have 3 no. 8's who are all in form (well Spies is getting back into his old self with a bit more physicality than usual)
9. Reinach, Groom and Paige as well as Faf are all playing great rugby. And Fourie Du Preez is being kept in cotton wool just waiting to be unleashed.
10. Handre Pollard, Pat Lambie & Elton Jantjies. Don't need to say much else.
11. This is the position I'm hoping Hougaard will be played at. You can clearly see his impact when he plays in this position and his defence is fantastic, an area where we used to be a bit vulnerable at times.
12. It's De Allende for me, if JDV doesn't make it. With Steyn as back-up.
13. Serfontein, Mapoe & JDJ.
14. Hendricks and Basson are my picks. Basson will be a great asset if we play the kick-chase game, especially after last year's EOYT debacle with the yellows...
15. Willie, Jesse and Cheslin... I'm just too excited. If I could I'd play all 3 of them. Jesse at 15, Willie at 11 and Cheslin at 9.

 

[SomeOke]

Honestly you'd think we'd have a better idea of what our team would look like but I do agree with Stormer that some of the incumbents are potentially not the best choices anymore. I hope HM experiments a bit in the rugby championship, and even in the pool stages if possible.

For me the only locked on players assuming no injuries are:

Eben and Matfield, Matfield is just a requirement, especially with JdV out for some time, unfortunately line-outs are just too vital for our game plan to leave them in inexperienced hands. So I do believe it is fine to select him for that reason alone.
Thormeulen
Pollard - Just has the best attributes, should be a lock with either Lambie or Elton covering.

and that's basically it, every other position is up for debate. Personally I'd consider it a crime if de Allende didn't start at 12 but since he's the least experienced and we may have our captain of 4 years playing it that position that isn't guaranteed.

Honestly I need to wait for the RC before I can make any predictions but I don't think it's too pessimistic to say we are fourth favourites behind NZ/Eng/Ire.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm liking the news reports that are coming in about players who are injured and their progress.

We have recieved good news so far on PSDT, JDV and this morning on Lood De Jager.

In other good news is that Fourie Du Preez is also training and in South Africa. He will be up for selection for the upcoming tests.

 

[TRF_heineken]

With only 1 or 2 games left in the regular season, I thought I might update my squad, with the added addition of some players being back from injury.

Loosehead props - Steven Kitshoff, Trevor Nyakane, Beast Mtawarira
Hookers - Bismarck Du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Armand v/d Merwe
Tighthead Props - Frans Malherbe, Vincent Koch, Julian Redelinghuys, Marcel v/d Merwe
Locks - Eben Etzebeth, Pieter-Steph Du Toit, Victor Matfield, Flip v/d Merwe, Lood De Jager, Jacques Du Plessis
Flankers - Jaco Kriel, Marcell Coetzee, Francois Louw, Willem Alberts, Lappies Labuschagne, Schalk Burger, Nizam Carr
8th man - Duane Vermeulen, Warren Whiteley, Arno Botha

Scrumhalf - Fourie Du Preez, Cobus Reinach, Francois Hougaard, Faf De Klerk
Flyhalf - Handre Pollard, Pat Lambie, Elton Jantjies
Inside Centre - JDV, Damien De Allende, Burger Odendaal, Frans Steyn, Harold Vorster
Outside Centre - Jan Serfontein, JDJ, Lionel Mapoe
Wing - Bryan Habana, JP Pietersen, Seabelo Senatla, S'bura Sithole, Ruan Combrinck, Bjorn Basson
Fullback - Willie Le Roux, Jesse Kriel, Cheslin Kolbe

 

[NamWarrior]

what's the story with Flip vdM? has he ruled himself out of contention for the boks or is he back in?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Heyneke Meyer will be having a one-on-one meeting with Andries Bekker and Frans Steyn.

HM also said yesterday in a press conference that he will look at every player no matter where they play, SA, Japan, Europe, doesn't matter, he wants to pick the best possible team he can.

What was also interesting was the praise HM had for Cheslin Kolbe and Faf de Klerk. And he also said that their size isn't something that he's looking at for selection. He's only looking at the form on the field.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Some more good news for the bokke.

JDV participated in his first non-contact training session yesterday with his Stormers team-mates and there is even a small possibility that he might still feature for the Stormers in the playoffs.

Duane Vermeulen doesn't have to undergo neck surgery and will be available for the playoffs too..

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

My only concern with selecting players based overseas is we have no idea of the type of form they're in. Just look at Juan Smith last year in Argentina where we were lucky not to lose. It's just impossible to compare apples with oranges and the worrying thing for me is the names of players who are in good form overseas havn't come up yet; I am talking specifically about Heinke van der Merwe, Wiehann Herbst, Francois van der Merwe, Jandre Marais and Juandre Kruger who have all been key players for their teams in France. Even Morne Steyn seems to have come back in fine form and has piloted Stade Francais to a Top 14 final after they dealt with Euro champs Toulon on the weekend easily enough.

But TBF those aren't positions we have a shortage of quality in currently- depending on Lambie and PSdT's fitness though.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

Whilst it is nice to see Jean de Villiers in recovery, anybody who thinks he should be playing 12 instead of Damian de Allende needs their head examined.

De Allende has probably been the form number 12 in the entire Super Rugby competition, across all 3 countries.

He was the in form 12 last year, which meant the coach then went and picked him in a different, unfamiliar position, and picked de Villiers instead at 12, even though he offers very little on the attack.
You couldn't make it up if you tried.

 

[Jaguares]

Any user from SA has this jersey?

I'm going to buy this jersey so I need to know the measurements. Compared to other brands what are the measurements of this jersey?

For example: "I'm a size Medium in Canterbury jersey but in this jersey I'm a size Small because the jersey is bigger than CCC"

 

[TobesHodges]

My Team for the Championship/RWC

Loosehead props - Steven Kitshoff
Hookers - Bismarck Du Plessis
Tighthead Props - Du Toit
Lock - Eben Etzebeth
Lock - Franco Mostert
Flanker - Jaco Kriel
Flanker - Louw
8th man - Duane Vermeulen

Scrumhalf - Ruan Pinnear
Flyhalf - Handre Pollard
Inside Centre - Jan Serfontain
Outside Centre - Damian De Allande
Wing - Bryan Habana
Wing - JP Peterson
Fullback - Willie Le Roux

 

[TRF_heineken]

Heyneke Meyer will be announcing the Springbok squad for the Rugby Championship on Sunday.

There might be a few interesting calls if the media speculations are to be true.

Fourie Du Preez, Jacque Fourie and Heinrich Brussouw could all be in HM squad.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So.. anybody know when we'll have a squad named for the upcoming test series pre-RWC?

I would imagine JdV won't quite make it yet. But apart from him the other injured, the likes of Vermeulen, PSdT, Coetzee, Lambie, Reinach, Burger.. who am I forgetting?.. should all be available as far as I know?

Also, media reports say Andries Bekker has declined but Frans Steyn and Jaque Fourie have made themselves available for Bok duty (not sure if thats a good thing..). Fourie du Preez is keeping a low profile but in the frame for selection..

There is actually now one hell of a pool of players to draw from considering the sheer amount of our top players plying their trade overseas. The issue is HM will be trying to compare apples with oranges. It might work it might nt work- just look at Juan Smith's nightmare of a return to test rugby.

I have to say I am glad I am not Meyer. Names I would like to through in there which havn't come up yet are big key performers for their Top14 teams producing the goods on a regular basis: LHP Heinke van der Merwe and Morne Steyn- okay, so maybe Steyn's name has come up- (championship winners Stade Francais), Racing have fallen off the pace but their pack remains formidable and two key players there are Francois van der Merwe and Juandre Kruger both in their prime and in a position we are light in ATM IMO at lock- also Jandre Marais but he might be a bit young. At THP also Wiehahn Herbst at Ulster but TBH THP is covered fully by home based players IMO. Craig Burden? Just throwing a few names out there. TBH though I'd keep the fringe props and hooker local; Redelinghuys, Armand- and Marcel van der Merwe are more than able to step up if required IMO.

My biggest concern though; the back three- we don't have anyone as imposing as a horde of Antipodean options; Savea, Smith, Folau, Naholo, Tomane, Speight, Milner-Skudder, Dagg, Osbourne, JOC, hell even the seemingly out of favor Piutau and Jane. All our back three options have big *'s next to their names:

Habana- too old, off the pace or just an unknown playing in Europe?
JPP- has played too much rugby in the centres and hasn't looked particularly dangerous the lst few years..
Le Roux- has been more of a liability than not the last ~two years if we're being honest
Kriel- in his first SR season and very raw still
Kirchner- who? is he even an option at this stage?
Hendricks- an exciting player but not the type fr RWC knock out rugby perhaps?

Edit,
Oh, thanks for the info above @heineken- for some reason I missed it until my post got up..

Brussow is certainly an interesting call. I wouldn't have thought Meyer would do a U0turn now what with Louw, Coetzee and Kriel all class players as well covering openside.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

A very interesting Bok extended squad announced. A ton of questions will be raised. I think the fact that so many spots are up for grabs is a bad thing t have at this stage- most of those vacancies would probably have been secured by now if it weren't for injury so wil we see the injured return, the newbies fill in or the 2007 class come back for a last hoorah? Probably we'll see some combination of the three.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Steyn-Fourie-back-in-Bok-picture-20150627

Biggest ommision IMO is Jaco Kriel. Also I don't see Hougaard but there are 5 other scrummies included!! I don't find it surprising really. Reinach and FdP would be favorites but bth are crocked so it's probably between Pienaar and Faf de Klerk.

 

[TRF_heineken]

A very interesting Bok extended squad announced. A ton of questions will be raised. I think the fact that so many spots are up for grabs is a bad thing t have at this stage- most of those vacancies would probably have been secured by now if it weren't for injury so wil we see the injured return, the newbies fill in or the 2007 class come back for a last hoorah? Probably we'll see some combination of the three.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Steyn-Fourie-back-in-Bok-picture-20150627

Biggest ommision IMO is Jaco Kriel. Also I don't see Hougaard but there are 5 other scrummies included!! I don't find it surprising really. Reinach and FdP would be favorites but bth are crocked so it's probably between Pienaar and Faf de Klerk.

Yeah, I'm a bit shocked that Jaco Kriel isn't there.

But then again, with so little time before the World Cup, HM doesn't have the luxury of picking too many fresh faces.

I think he will get critisism, but I'm not going to critisize him about this squad.

HM has made it obvious that he wants props who dominate at the scrums. Heinke Van Der Merwe, Malherbe, Kitshoff and Koch all boast in that department and I have a feeling it's an area where very few other teams will be able to match us.

Then again, this is just for the Rugby Championship, and chances are that a few guys will get injured beforehand.

And I'm glad there wasn't Bulls biasness in his picks. No Pierre Spies, Arno Botha, Jacques Du Plessis or JJ Engelbrecht.

Good on you HM.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Arno Botha just hasn't had the game time to make his mark. I believe he'll be back in the fold sooner rther than later. Kriel though is a tough one not to include though. I mean, he was light years ahead of the next best SA loosie in last year's Currie Cupp and followed that up with being the clear best SA loosie in Super rugby in the 2nd stanza of the competition. Only Ardie Savea was close overall (also in the 2nd 1/2) IMO. So lets use the argument that Meyer wants experience.. wouldn't that then rule out Kolisi, Whiteley and Mohoje? I'd say Kriel was better than all 3. All 3 are also more versatile backrowers so I can't accept an argument puts Kriel squarely at openside and competing with Coetzee, Louw and Brussow (so long since he was involved in Bok rugby I'd don't know if one can call him a test veteran?). I have no idea what sort of form Louw is in but Kriel was head and shoulders above the other two who didn't have poor seasons either. I suppose we have so much talent in the backrow there will always be casualties. Just this time round it was Krie, Carr, Labischagne, Tecklenburg and Botha. I have nothing against Mohoje, Alberts, Kolisi or Burger, in fact the latter two I close to hero worship but there is no denying Kriel was more deserving of a call-up as is. Alberts I assume is there based on previous showings in green as he hasn't done anything for the Sharks.

But I am splitting hairs. The backrow is not were we will have problems and I can't go onto the rest as we are still at 49 and there is a lot of whittling to be done still.

I am over the moon for Mapoe. Him, Venter and De Allende have been my best SA centers. Odendaal and Vorster are certainly also guys to keep an eye on. I think our team post this RWC wil be building nicely towards 2019 if we can get selection right. This tournament is a year or two too early for us I think.