South Africa - World Cup 2015 Discussion Thread

[TRF_stormer2010]

7? How'd he manage that with this squad

1 Beast or Nyakane unless he moves Nyakane to tighthead but he hasn't up till now (even though Nyakane should've been nominated at tighthead for the game against NZ earlier where Poite 'made a technical call to go uncontested')
7 Kolisi
11 Habana
13 JPP
14 Mvovo
15 Kirchner

Yeah, I suppose without injury to those players you could field 7 non-whites starting but I'd hate to have to resort to Kirchner despite Le Roux's flaws and JPP, Kolisi and Nyakane just simply aren't near enough to par in the competition for those jerseys. the problem here is the ministers have complained in the past that Habs, JPP etc aren't black and Beast is foreign-born. I wonder what it'd take to actually get the politicians satisfied. If you add Kirchner and De Allende together do you get 1 'non-white'? Simply ridiculous that one needs to even consider this BS. Its nothing but pure institutionalised racism. World Rugby, the IOC etc etc should just go ahead and ban us again until we get our politics and sports seperated

 

[TRF_heineken]

7? How'd he manage that with this squad

1 Beast or Nyakane unless he moves Nyakane to tighthead but he hasn't up till now (even though Nyakane should've been nominated at tighthead for the game against NZ earlier where Poite 'made a technical call to go uncontested')
7 Kolisi
11 Habana
13 JPP
14 Mvovo
15 Kirchner

Yeah, I suppose without injury to those players you could field 7 non-whites starting but I'd hate to have to resort to Kirchner despite Le Roux's flaws and JPP, Kolisi and Nyakane just simply aren't near enough to par in the competition for those jerseys. the problem here is the ministers have complained in the past that Habs, JPP etc aren't black and Beast is foreign-born. I wonder what it'd take to actually get the politicians satisfied. If you add Kirchner and De Allende together do you get 1 'non-white'? Simply ridiculous that one needs to even consider this BS. Its nothing but pure institutionalised racism. World Rugby, the IOC etc etc should just go ahead and ban us again until we get our politics and sports seperated

My brother showed me the twitter account where they made a "Springbok quota XV"

and out of the 50 players HM had in the group, they had a team like this:

1. Beast Mtawarira
3. Marcel v/d Merwe
4. Teboho Mohoje
6. Siya Kolisi
9. Rudy Paige
10. Elton Jantjies
11. Bryan Habana
12. Damian De Allende
13. JP Pietersen
14. Lwazi Mvovo
15. Zane Kirchner

16. Trevor Nyakane

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'm sure the powers that be wouldn't even be happy. Only 4 of those players are 'native black' as they'd say.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm sure the powers that be wouldn't even be happy. Only 4 of those players are 'native black' as they'd say.

Lol! Yeah. But that is the problem, and I'm so glad that Afriforum is taking this matter so seriously. The idea they have, is to propose that the current setup for the professional teams in rugby in SA. Should be a representation of the viewers, instead of the entire country. Because as they say, some people in the rural areas don't even know about rugby, because the government has failed in their process of getting rugby to all areas in SA at grassroots level, yet they keep on hammering the guys at the top.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The South African World Cup Squad will be announced on Friday 28 August.

That means that the coming week is the deadline for players such as Duane Vermeulen, Jean De Villiers, Fourie Du Preez, Steven Kitshoff, Jannie Du Plessis and Vincent Koch to be declared fit or ready to go to the World Cup.

All are already busy with their final cycles of rehabilitation, and some have even participated in full contact sessions with the rest of the squad the past 2 weeks. The player given the most time and attention is Duane Vermeulen, not only because of his important role in the team, but also the injury, and ensuring that it doesn't become a problem halfway through the tournament.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Does that mean Coetzee, Louw, Le Roux, Pollard and JPP are already fit? I liked what I saw from Alberts and PSdT back from injury and assuming they'll have more impact the more they get back into things. Add those props and the pack is sorted and with quality and tested back up. Its looking better on the injury front than I'd have hoped. I just hope those players will be matchfit when the serious games start.

The single most important player IMO for SA... Fourie du Preez. A lot will depend on his fitness. We simply don't have options who are as complete a player in what is probably the most critical position from a SA gameplan POV. The fact that he hasn't played for us in an age is irrelevant. That and if JdV makes it or not IE if we are +FdP (even at 70%) and -JdV, I am all of a sudden an optimistic man.

Frans Steyn is also available. I don't know how I feel about that though. Possibly I think he'd be a better inclusion than Kirchner but I see him behind DDA and Serfontein for the 12 jersey and behind Le Roux, Lambie and Kriel at 15 so a last resort utility back possibly/hopefully if he does make the cut.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Does that mean Coetzee, Louw, Le Roux, Pollard and JPP are already fit? I liked what I saw from Alberts and PSdT back from injury and assuming they'll have more impact the more they get back into things. Add those props and the pack is sorted and with quality and tested back up. Its looking better on the injury front than I'd have hoped. I just hope those players will be matchfit when the serious games start.

The single most important player IMO for SA... Fourie du Preez. A lot will depend on his fitness. We simply don't have options who are as complete a player in what is probably the most critical position from a SA gameplan POV. The fact that he hasn't played for us in an age is irrelevant. That and if JdV makes it or not IE if we are +FdP (even at 70%) and -JdV, I am all of a sudden an optimistic man.

Frans Steyn is also available. I don't know how I feel about that though. Possibly I think he'd be a better inclusion than Kirchner but I see him behind DDA and Serfontein for the 12 jersey and behind Le Roux, Lambie and Kriel at 15 so a last resort utility back possibly/hopefully if he does make the cut.

Well those guys did participate in most of the matches this year, some of them just had a minor ****le. And haven't played in 2 weeks (well most of them) so there has been time to get fit.

For me both Fourie Du Preez and Duane Vermeulen is the 2 key players we need in the World Cup to win. They just bring out the best out of the players around them.

As for Frans Steyn. I'd pick him in a heartbeat. He's on of the few that actually played in the World Cup final in 2007 that is still in the squad. He can kick at goal for us, from inside his own half, something I think will help us in tight wet NH matches. Depending on Willie, He's my second choice for fullback.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Steyn is just so slow for his age and I question the headspace and form he is in bigtime! Even before his brother's suicide Steyn seemed disinterested in playing some actual rugby and those faces he pulls and the way he has acted out in the media.. I just don't think he is 100% commited. He is another on his way to Montpellier. I think the Sharks (and Bokke) will be better off without him if I'm honest.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Steyn is just so slow for his age and I question the headspace and form he is in bigtime! Even before his brother's suicide Steyn seemed disinterested in playing some actual rugby and those faces he pulls and the way he has acted out in the media.. I just don't think he is 100% commited. He is another on his way to Montpellier. I think the Sharks (and Bokke) will be better off without him if I'm honest.

I don't know. I think the media alienated him, when it was actually SARU who was the bully in Frans' case.

Frans can be a hothead yes. But when he runs out for the Bokke he always tries his best. Maybe the death of his brother reignited the fire in him, and if he's fit, then he'll be a great weapon to the bokke.

He is a utility player and can playe everywhere in the backline except on the wing and scrumhalf. That makes him valuable.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I certainly don't underestimate his potential value. I just question whether he is in any sort of shape mentally or physically. I understand SARU didn't fully live up to promises but there are ways to deal with things and his was somewhat flippantly and childish even if the media focus inflated things. Then there is his apparently lack of any sort of pace across the SR season, his ill discipline throughout and just his overall body language for me this year. Add his brother's suicide and call me skeptical.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I certainly don't underestimate his potential value. I just question whether he is in any sort of shape mentally or physically. I understand SARU didn't fully live up to promises but there are ways to deal with things and his was somewhat flippantly and childish even if the media focus inflated things. Then there is his apparently lack of any sort of pace across the SR season, his ill discipline throughout and just his overall body language for me this year. Add his brother's suicide and call me skeptical.

Yeah, I hear you. I just think that his ill-discipline and bad form in SR was because of this whole SARU thing.

But let's see what happens. HM won't pick someone who would bring negativity to the camp.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yeah, I hear you. I just think that his ill-discipline and bad form in SR was because of this whole SARU thing.

But let's see what happens. HM won't pick someone who would bring negativity to the camp.

I don't always agree with his selections and tactics but I have to give the man credit he seems to be able to get more of their best out of players than most coaches.

EDIT

Having a look at our more experienced players' win %s as a (admittedly limited) yardstick as to their importance for us I found Willem Alberts is some way ahead of the rest by a substantial 6/7% and just under 80% which is well ahead of SA's average as a whole. So, the stats say Alberts is SA's MVP.

Only player on 20+ caps and 70%+ and currently playing in order:

Alberts
...
Du Preez
...
JPP
Bismarck
Frans Steyn
Serfontein
Etzebeth

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/The-31-Boks-who-should-be-on-the-RWC-flight-20150826

Herman Mostert shares his 31 and I am inclined to agree for the most part, especially though with that last paragraph there at 9:

Scrumhalves (3): Fourie du Preez, Cobus Reinach, Francois Hougaard

Fourie du Preez hasn't played for the Boks this year, but I believe he is still the best scrumhalf in the country and - if fit - should be the starting No 9 at the World Cup.


Cobus Reinach and Francois Hougaard would be my back-ups.


In my opinion, Ruan Pienaar has not performed up to the standard of an international scrumhalf and Hougaard's X-factor on attack could aid the Boks greatly. Dropping Hougaard (who could also be a back-up at wing) was a mistake and he's proven his worth for the Blue Bulls in the Currie Cup this year.

Please can we axe Pienaar!

 

[TRF_heineken]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/The-31-Boks-who-should-be-on-the-RWC-flight-20150826

Herman Mostert shares his 31 and I am inclined to agree for the most part, especially though with that last paragraph there at 9:



Please can we axe Pienaar!

Hmmm...

I think he's contradicting himself a bit is omitting Pienaar.

He refers to players such as Brits, Flouw and Frans Steyn and their experience in the north as invaluable, but leaves it out with regard to Pienaar.

Also Hougie has played well, yes, but he's been playing against inexperienced guys. Pienaar is also versatile in that he can play fly half and fullback like the last test in Argentina.

Other than that, I like his squad and tend to agree with him. I just don't think HM will call up Hougie now. He could've done that at any time and to call him now a day before the final squad is announced is unlikely.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Maybe he leaves it out with Pienaar because the others have at least contributed something.

Mallett also leaves out Pienaar:

Forwards: Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, Steven Kitshoff, Jannie du Plessis, Frans Malherbe, Coenie Oosthuizen, Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Scarra Ntubeni, Victor Matfield, Eben Etzebeth, Lood de Jager, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Duane Vermeulen, Willem Alberts, Francois Louw, Schalk Burger, Siya Kolisi/Oupa MohojeBacks: Fourie du Preez, Cobus Reinach, Faf de Klerk, Handre Pollard, Pat Lambie, Elton Jantjies, Jean de Villiers (captain), Damian de Allende, Jan Serfontein, Bryan Habana, JP Pietersen, Lwazi Mvovo, Willie le Roux

Tank Lanning has Pienaar included but of these three pundits he is in the position of least 'standing' as far as I'm concerned.


Fullback: Willie le Roux, Zane Kirchner
Wing: Bryan Habana, Lwazi Mvovo, JP Pietersen
Centre: Damian De Allende, Jean de Villiers, Jan Serfontein, Jesse Kriel
Flyhalf: Handré Pollard, Pat Lambie
Scrumhalf: Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar, Cobus Reinach
8th man: Duane Vermeulen, Schalk Burger
Flank: Willem Alberts, Francois Louw, Siya Kolisi, Oupa Mohoje, Heinrich Brussow
Lock: Eben Etzebeth, Victor Matfield, Pieter-Steph du Toit
Tighthead: Jannie du Plessis, Vincent Koch, Frans Malherbe
Hooker: Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss
Loosehead: Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane

A few eyebrow raisers from both though. Mallett drops Jesse Kriel whie Lanning has no space for Lood de Jager. Both who have been in fine form of late IMO. No space for Frans Steyn for either.

- - - Updated - - -

My own 31 (and here I'm not taking into account what I think Meyer might go with);

Props (6):
Kitshoff
Mtawarira
Nyakane
Du Plessis
Malherbe
Koch

Hookers (3):
Du Plessis
Burden
Brits

Locks (4):
Etzebeth
De Jager
Du Toit
Francois van der Merwe (not Flip)

Backrow (5) (I hear Coetzee is out):
Alberts
Vermeulen
Louw (c)
Kriel
Burger

Scrumhalf (3):
Du Preez
De Klerk
Hougaard

Flyhalf (3):
Lambie
Pollard
Steyn

Center (3)
De Allende
Kriel
Serfontein

Outside backs (4):
Le Roux
Habana
Mvovo
Petersen

I'd have Lambie cover Le Roux at 15. Beyond 15 the squad isn't thin at all and Kriel could cover 15 next in line.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well Scrum coach Pieter De Villiers (not the moron, the French Capped Prop), said yesterday that they will only be taking 5 props instead of 6. They were under the impression that the IRB regulates that 6 props had to be taken to the RWC, but as some teams have already announced their squads and only taken 5 props they will do the same.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Boks-cut-down-on-their-props-20150826

I have to be honest, I don't agree with Mallett or Lanning, both of them have had a biased look especially towards Bulls players.

This is all just opinions, and none of us or them are the coach, so we just have to wait and see what happens tomorrow.

The announcement is live on SS1 at 17:30 and repeats at 18:00 on Blitz

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Sure its all just opinions but if we can't discuss it there's really little use in being a supporter.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Sure its all just opinions but if we can't discuss it there's really little use in being a supporter.

Lol. Yeah sorry for dampening the mood. I just want the team announced already. Them putting their teams forward makes this wait more painful than it should be...

 

[SomeOke]

Talk is Brussow will not be going to the WC, not sure how I feel about it. He wouldn't be in my starting 15 necessarily but I do feel there might be a use in having in the squad.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Is Brussow in contract with anyone?