• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

South Africa RWC Preview

I want to respond to the claim that the Currie Cup is a top3 competition in the world. I think this is true, when you only count provincial leagues. The problem is that most will rate the Heineken Cup and Super15 higher, which is true. When it comes to provincial leagues, the Premiership and TOP14 are better and Magners/RaboDirect is on the same level with the ITM Cup as well. I cannot determine which of these 3 is the strongest.

South Africa has only won the World Cup twice, but they do have the best participation/winning ratio with 50% (winning 2 out of the 4 tournaments so far)

How can a league with alot of international players from the clubsnations be on par with a league of young players trying to make it to superrugby or are older players with a few super rugby players?
 
What is so nice about a World Cup in NZ is that countries like Ireland, Wales and France will finally be able to win a match on NZ soil hahaha
 
I wouldn't laugh to hard about France not doing it, they've spoiled the most important thing for NZ a couple of times :p.
 
What is so nice about a World Cup in NZ is that countries like Ireland, Wales and France will finally be able to win a match on NZ soil hahaha

I actually saw Wales beat Ireland in Wellington, at the 1987 World Cup ... I'm not certain, but it may have been the first game between the two sides, on neutral territory
 
...stuff....

Interesting preview again. Agree with most of your selection, but there are a few in particular that I disagree with:

12 Wynand Olivier (Bulls): He wouldn't be near my RWC if I was a South African selector, let alone the starting XV! He always struggles at test level; whenever he gets the ball in his hands (which is not that often, as the ball has to get past du Preez and Morne Steyn...) he doesn't even think about passing it, but always crashes the ball up, and he doesn't even do this effectively. His defense is ok, but hardly outstanding. I'd start de Villiers and Fourie in the centres (who are a would class combination in my opinion), with de Jongh the primary backup if either was unavailable. I wouldn't take a 4th specialist midfield back in my squad, with the likes of Lambie and Francois Steyn more than capable of playing in the 12 jersey.

10 Ruan Pienaar (Ulster, Ireland), 21 Elton Janjies (Lions): To be honest Pienaar may be a better option than Morne Steyn, but I don't think he is the best 10 in South Africa. There is probably no standout 10 in South Africa, but personally I would start Pat Lambie there. He may not be quite ready for test rugby yet, but he is probably the best option in my opinion. I would also consider Peter Grant at 10; his major flaw is that he lacks distance in his punting, but if South Africa have Francois Steyn at fullback he could take a lot of pressure off Grant by taking the clearing kicks. Jantjies looks talented, but I still think he has a long way to go before he is ready for test level - indeed he still struggles a lot at Super Rugby level. Not only is his goal-kicking poor, but he weak on defence, he struggles to control the game, and seems to make a lot of basic errors. He certainly seems to have the talent to make the Boks in future, but I think he still a few years away from realising his potential.

27 Ashley Johnson (Cheetahs): He is probably one of the worst defensive loose-forward in the world - he almost lead the entire Super Rugby competition in missed tackles! I really don't understand what people see in him - he does run very hard, but he runs straight at opposition players. While it does look spectacular, he seldom breaks the line, and he doesn't give himself the oppurtunity to offload the ball. Obviously the South African coaches rate him, and I'd assume that they know a lot more about rugby than me (well some of the coaches at least...), so perhaps I'm missing something.

3 CJ van der Linde (Stormers), 1 Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks), 17 Gurthro Steenkamp (Bulls), 24 Jannie du Plessis (Sharks): I really have no idea who South Africa's best tighthead prop is, but I don't particularly rate van der Linde at all; he just seems to struggle at scrum time to me. I'd prefer Jannie du Plessis, or even better BJ Botha or Brian Mujati. I'd also have Steenkamp starting at loose-head, as I thought he was he best loosehead prop in last years Tri-nations. However I thought Mtawarira had a very impressive match vs Australia last week, so there will be pressure on Steenkamp (who has just returned from injury) to perform this week vs the AB's.
 
How can a league with alot of international players from the clubsnations be on par with a league of young players trying to make it to superrugby or are older players with a few super rugby players?

The All Blacks havent been playing much ITM cup this year (still a couple players turning out though) but i think you will find every super rugby player outside of the test squad is playing..
 
I actually saw Wales beat Ireland in Wellington, at the 1987 World Cup ... I'm not certain, but it may have been the first game between the two sides, on neutral territory

In that WC they also finished 3rd.

On ITM I'm mistaken, Ive watched 2-3 games this year only guy I recognized was fruean (sp?) Past years i've recognized more.
 
It looks like Juan Smith has given up on making the South African RWC squad, admitting that he has not fully recovered from his Achilles injury (http://www.worldcupweb.com/rugby/news/viewarticle.asp?id=31577). I think this is a massive blow for South Africa, as I rate Smith as one of the best blindside flankers in world rugby. If I was selecting the team I'd be tempted to play Burger at 7 (with Brossouw at 6). However I suspect we will see Danie Rossouw in the 7 jerssey come RWC time, which I think would be a big mistake....
 
Lord Hope

Good explanations!

The 12 spot could go the way of Jean de Villiers, Juan de Jongh or Wynand Olivier. Olivier has been poor so far for RSA in 2011 and so will probably not be the guy. I didn´t go for JdV because from what I have seen of him he has not ben able to have the same impact on a match as previously. In any event I picked all three in the squad of 30.

I agree Pat Lambie shpuld not be 10 at the RWC as its a risk, as is Jantjies. Butch James is better than Morne Steyn but I think he lacks creativity, as is normal with RSA flyhalves! I went for Piennar as a guy with experience who is reliable and creative. Combining with du Preez does appear problematic, but there is a month to work on it. For the sake of RSA I hope Morne Steyn is left out of the RWC.

Props look like a strength but I didn´t want Jannie du Plessis in the XV as I´ve seen him go backwards in the scrums. Nonetheless he is in my squad.

About Chilliboy, or Mahlaste, I know he´s officially known by his nickname but as I was writitng for a Brazilian website and the guy is an unknown here I went for his real name. WIth Bakkies Botha its not neccessary.

Darwin 23

12 Wynand Olivier (Bulls)
: has been an issue, but so have the other options for 12, in my vie, as I said just now to Lord Hope. I don´t mind so much which of the three get the 12 shirt but think they will all be selected.

10 Ruan Pienaar (Ulster, Ireland), 21 Elton Janjies (Lions): Pat Lambie for me is a great talent but is raw. Like Wilkinson at RWC 1999 or Carter at 2003. Talent for all to see but the timing is wrong. Peter Grant is above Morne Steyn for me and almost got the nod as did Butch James. I opted for neither to use Janjies as the reseve and Frans Steyn as cover. Jantjies was good for RSA in 2010, aside from goalkicking but this is not a factor given the alternatives in the XV. On form RSA would have to take Butch James and Ruan Pienaar with the third being open to debate.

27 Ashley Johnson (Cheetahs): He´s a ballcarrier, like you say. Not much else. He´ll be needed on the bench for both Samoa and Fiji. Thats why I went for him. I´ll be surprized if he is not selected.

3 CJ van der Linde (Stormers), 1 Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks), 17 Gurthro Steenkamp (Bulls), 24 Jannie du Plessis (Sharks): van der Linde is not what he used to be but is still very good. His scrumaging is outstanding but whoever RSA go for should be ok as they have so much depth in this area... aside from John Smit.

Guys,

The Pro 12 is better than the ITM Cup. I´ll give my views on the ITM Cup when I post my New Zealand preview. The Pro 12 was an average competition 5 or so years ago but is getting better and better. Great to have the Italians on board and expansion may continue with Italy getting more teams and Wales... if the North get a team!
 
François Steyn should play 12 in my opinion, he is very overrated as a full back

I like Ruan Pienaar playing 10, but unfortunately he's not the best goal kicking option
 
Lord Hope

Good explanations!

The 12 spot could go the way of Jean de Villiers, Juan de Jongh or Wynand Olivier. Olivier has been poor so far for RSA in 2011 and so will probably not be the guy. I didn´t go for JdV because from what I have seen of him he has not ben able to have the same impact on a match as previously. In any event I picked all three in the squad of 30.

I agree Pat Lambie shpuld not be 10 at the RWC as its a risk, as is Jantjies. Butch James is better than Morne Steyn but I think he lacks creativity, as is normal with RSA flyhalves! I went for Piennar as a guy with experience who is reliable and creative. Combining with du Preez does appear problematic, but there is a month to work on it. For the sake of RSA I hope Morne Steyn is left out of the RWC.

Props look like a strength but I didn´t want Jannie du Plessis in the XV as I´ve seen him go backwards in the scrums. Nonetheless he is in my squad.

About Chilliboy, or Mahlaste, I know he´s officially known by his nickname but as I was writitng for a Brazilian website and the guy is an unknown here I went for his real name. WIth Bakkies Botha its not neccessary.

Darwin 23

12 Wynand Olivier (Bulls)
: has been an issue, but so have the other options for 12, in my vie, as I said just now to Lord Hope. I don´t mind so much which of the three get the 12 shirt but think they will all be selected.

10 Ruan Pienaar (Ulster, Ireland), 21 Elton Janjies (Lions): Pat Lambie for me is a great talent but is raw. Like Wilkinson at RWC 1999 or Carter at 2003. Talent for all to see but the timing is wrong. Peter Grant is above Morne Steyn for me and almost got the nod as did Butch James. I opted for neither to use Janjies as the reseve and Frans Steyn as cover. Jantjies was good for RSA in 2010, aside from goalkicking but this is not a factor given the alternatives in the XV. On form RSA would have to take Butch James and Ruan Pienaar with the third being open to debate.

27 Ashley Johnson (Cheetahs): He´s a ballcarrier, like you say. Not much else. He´ll be needed on the bench for both Samoa and Fiji. Thats why I went for him. I´ll be surprized if he is not selected.

3 CJ van der Linde (Stormers), 1 Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks), 17 Gurthro Steenkamp (Bulls), 24 Jannie du Plessis (Sharks): van der Linde is not what he used to be but is still very good. His scrumaging is outstanding but whoever RSA go for should be ok as they have so much depth in this area... aside from John Smit.

Guys,

The Pro 12 is better than the ITM Cup. I´ll give my views on the ITM Cup when I post my New Zealand preview. The Pro 12 was an average competition 5 or so years ago but is getting better and better. Great to have the Italians on board and expansion may continue with Italy getting more teams and Wales... if the North get a team!

Two things:
1) If you have Henry Tuilagi and Census Johnston storming at you, sure you would be after a flanker that at least has a remote chance of tackling them?
2)What do you mean by "better" when you're comparing competitions? Better player talent? More viable financially? Better to watch? More attractive cheerleaders?
Whats your criteria?
 
Lambie raw? Yet you choose Jantjies coz he was good for RSA in 2010? He was hot/cold for Lions in 2010 Currie Cup and played one game for South Africa vs the Barbarians EOYT...

I agree to disagree.
 
Two things:
1) If you have Henry Tuilagi and Census Johnston storming at you, sure you would be after a flanker that at least has a remote chance of tackling them?
2)What do you mean by "better" when you're comparing competitions? Better player talent? More viable financially? Better to watch? More attractive cheerleaders?
Whats your criteria?

Yes, that's what I was trying to get answers to earlier ... everyone is entitled to their opinions on who or what is better than something else ... i'm more interested in "why"
 
the flyhalf should be butch! morne is a great asset when it comes to kicking but for every conversion he kicks i garauntee he'll miss 1 or 2 tackles, which to be honest we cant even afford to do in our pool matchs as samoa, wales and fiji all have potent backs that will ( just like aus and new zealand did) run in tries from everywhere! he was good when a kicking game was enough to win, but with the law changes after 2009(his star season) we need a defensive unit that can also counter attack.
plus south africa need a maritzburg college flyhalf! we havent won a wc without one :)
 
François Steyn should play 12 in my opinion, he is very overrated as a full back

I like Ruan Pienaar playing 10, but unfortunately he's not the best goal kicking option

With Lambie at fullback we don't need a goal-kicker at fly-half.
 
The only other options for fly-half are Elton Jantjies (NO), Peter Grant (Maybe), Sias Ebersohn (Definitely for the future). Pienaar fly-half is the best option we have if we want Lambie at full-back. I would prefer Lambie at 10 with Riaan Viljoen full-back though
 
The only other options for fly-half are Elton Jantjies (NO), Peter Grant (Maybe), Sias Ebersohn (Definitely for the future). Pienaar fly-half is the best option we have if we want Lambie at full-back. I would prefer Lambie at 10 with Riaan Viljoen full-back though

that all sounds good if we were playing an overseas tour! we cant afford testing viljoen at fullback...but he is a great talent for the future! lambie has earned a spot in the squad and his omission would be a surprise but id say the smart money is on frans steyn at fullback. hes been to a wc before he knows how to cope with the pressure ( long kick in 07 final) and hes got too much class to leave out! lambie should support butch at flyhalf!
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest posts

Top