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South Africa - World Cup 2015 Discussion Thread

Lol. Yeah sorry for dampening the mood. I just want the team announced already. Them putting their teams forward makes this wait more painful than it should be...

Well, the team is all but decided with Meyer recieving a 'target' of 30% black and Damian de Allende counts apparently.

Is Brussow in contract with anyone?

I might be wrong but I believe he is set to play in the Japanese Top league and then should be back for the Cheetahs for SR.

Talk is Brussow will not be going to the WC, not sure how I feel about it. He wouldn't be in my starting 15 necessarily but I do feel there might be a use in having in the squad.

Brussow and Reinach both are set to miss out due to Meyer's need for a minimum of 9 'non-white' players. Supposedly Kolisi and (o_O) Rudy Paige of all players are set to make the cut at their expense. I'm pretty sure I know how I feel about that...

*If* SA wins this RWC it'll probably be our last. Lets enjoy. The quota is set at 50% for 2015 and there will have to be some fast-tracking done between now and then.
 
Brussow and Reinach both are set to miss out due to Meyer's need for a minimum of 9 'non-white' players. Supposedly Kolisi and (o_O) Rudy Paige of all players are set to make the cut at their expense. I'm pretty sure I know how I feel about that...
Are you sure about this? Haven't seen anything in the news, do you have an inside line?
 
If, and that's a big if, black players are picked over superior white players, a lot of people will stop supporting the Springboks and the ANC is solely responsible for something they were openly complaining about 30 years ago (Springbok team being a symbol of racism).
 
That is pretty grim if it's indeed true... :/
 
I wouldn't actually be that upset to see Kolisi, there is definitely an argument for another player in that last loosie spot, but I could also argue for Siya. Paige over Faf or Hougard is much harder to swallow.

I'm going to assume the rumour isn't true though, it's exactly the kind of rumour I'd expect paranoid Saffers to circulate ;) .

Edit: Guess we'll know soon enough!
 
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I think the Government is going to shoot themselves in the foot if they enforce the quota system. I don't know if any of you guys are members of Afriforum, but they are curently running a petition which they are going to take to the Human Rights Court over BEE laws.

They have also shared their plan in which they will draft another petition if the Quota system gets enforced in rugby, which they will hand over to the WR (IRB) which is in direct violation of WR laws.

So this is going to reach boiling point and I think there is now enough intent and structure in place that if the politics keeps on interfering, then action will be taken, where in the past we just took it on the chin.

I watched Boots & All last night, and Bob Skinstad said that he also thinks that Kolisi needs to go ahead of Brussouw. Now I don't know if that's his WP bias coming through or that SS paid him to say that, but he was one of the guys that always sang praise towards Brussouw, why now all of a sudden say the opposite??

Also, could one of you guys post the team on here when it is announced tonight. I will not be able to as I will be at work function.
 
The IRB should step in. Just boycot SARU again until they resolve the issues. Politics should stay out of sports. I don't see any white South African complaining about Bafana Bafana. Sport is sport. The best players should be picked, regardless of skin color.
 
I wouldn't actually be that upset to see Kolisi, there is definitely an argument for another player in that last loosie spot, but I could also argue for Siya. Paige over Faf or Hougard is much harder to swallow.

I'm going to assume the rumour isn't true though, it's exactly the kind of rumour I'd expect paranoid Saffers to circulate ;) .

Edit: Guess we'll know soon enough!

Agreed if Paige is coming it wouldn't be a left field pick it'd be an out-of-this-world inclusion from nowhere. On Kolisi I have a soft spot and wouldn't mind him coming in though I think having just 1 fetcher (and Louw isn't a 100% too-the-ball player in the first place) would be a mistake if Louw got injured again which is a distinct likelyhood.

That just got me thinking a bit about what would a full SA non-white look like (and just an excuse for a 'what if?' XV) and I'd go for:
1 Trevor Nyakane (seeing as the ANC has come out saying it has issues about Mtawarira being Zimbabwean-born)
2 Scarra Ntubeni (no idea what sort of form Chiliboy or Maku are in)
3 ..? (I'd go Brian Mujati but he is also Zim-born)(Maybe shift Nyakane to 3 and bring in Gqoboka at loosehead)
4 Giant Mtyanda
5 Teboho Mohoje
6 Siya Kolisi
7 Sikumbusa Notshe
8 Nizaam Carr
9 Godlen Masimla (who I rate higher than Paige)
10 Elton Jantjies
11 Bryan Habana
12 Howard Mnisi (Despite what the politicians are saying I'll go with Damian and his dad saying he sees himself as white)
13 Lionel Mapoe (JPP if experience is your priority and seeing as De Jongh is out injured)
14 Lwazi Mvovo
15 Warrick Gelant (Kirchner or Aplon if you're going for experience)

Not bad at all actually.

I think the Government is going to shoot themselves in the foot if they enforce the quota system. I don't know if any of you guys are members of Afriforum, but they are curently running a petition which they are going to take to the Human Rights Court over BEE laws.

They have also shared their plan in which they will draft another petition if the Quota system gets enforced in rugby, which they will hand over to the WR (IRB) which is in direct violation of WR laws.

So this is going to reach boiling point and I think there is now enough intent and structure in place that if the politics keeps on interfering, then action will be taken, where in the past we just took it on the chin.

I watched Boots & All last night, and Bob Skinstad said that he also thinks that Kolisi needs to go ahead of Brussouw. Now I don't know if that's his WP bias coming through or that SS paid him to say that, but he was one of the guys that always sang praise towards Brussouw, why now all of a sudden say the opposite??

Also, could one of you guys post the team on here when it is announced tonight. I will not be able to as I will be at work function.

I'll be out for dinner. Will post when I get home.

On to Afriforum I've always been a bit skeptical. I see them as just another race-related quasi-political body. Why act now with quotas for rugby and not previously with other sports such as netball where quotas have been inforced for some time now on a large scale? Its just publicity as far as I'm concerned. On BEE and AA, again, why only now? Also, what sort of teeth does the human rights court have *if* they were even inclined to see racial discrimination against white minorities for what it is? If anything came of it I'd be very surprised and will have to adjust my somewhat skeptical outlook on these institutions. But until then I remain unconvnced. I'd back World Rugby if they were to ban the Bokke from test rugby but I just can't see them doing so- it'd take too much balls.

The IRB should step in. Just boycot SARU again until they resolve the issues. Politics should stay out of sports. I don't see any white South African complaining about Bafana Bafana. Sport is sport. The best players should be picked, regardless of skin color.

Agreed. Banning SA from test rugby would hit a few pockets. That's the only way for any sort of impact to be made.

Onto something a little lighter- Bakkies Botha has named his World XV dream team for the upcoming RWC:

15 Israel Folau (Australia), 14 Julian Savea (New Zealand), 13 Jesse Kriel (South Africa), 12 Damian de Allende (South Africa), 11 Bryan Habana (South Africa), 10 Morne Steyn (South Africa), 9 Aaron Smith (New Zealand), 8 Jamie Heaslip (Ireland), 7 Richie McCaw (New Zealand), 6 David Pocock (Australia), 5 Victor Matfield (South Africa), 4 Paul O'Connell (Ireland), 3 Cian Healy (Ireland), 2 Dane Coles (New Zealand), 1 Marcos Ayerza (Argentina)

TBH I'd have expected a little more SA bias in the forwards. TBH I feel Matfield, Steyn and Habana look like sentimental picks; tips of the hat to mates. I'd have thought Etzebeth or Du Plessis could've had more legitimate claims here. Not that any of these XVs ought to be taken even remotely seriously of course.
 
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To be fair to Afriforum, yes a lot of people are skeptics. But I can honestly say I've seen them in action, and they really are trying to fight for what is right and have a pretty good team to help.

I think they had a bit of a struggle regarding funding and taking on too many projects at the same time. But they have now implemented regional offices to assist with matters. They are doing this now, because they now have their own legal team, one of high school buddies is their Environmental Law consultant. They have guys now employed who specialize in certain areas who can give expert advice.

They couldn't do this before because of certain factors, and now that they have a lot more backing, and the know-how they can take on the big guns.
 
SA squad (will be editing while they announce):


Jean de Villiers (c)
Willem Alberts
Schalk Brits
Schalk Burger
Damian de Allende
Lood de Jager
Bismarck du Plessis
Jannie du Plessis
Fourie du Preez
Pieter-Steph du Toit
Eben Etzebeth
Bryan Habana
Zane Kirchner
Siya Kolisi
Jesse Kriel
Patrick Lambie
Willie Le Roux
Francois Louw
Frans Malherbe
Victor Matfield
Tendai Mtawarira
Lwazi Mvovo
Trevor Nyakane
Coenie Oosthuizen
Rudy Paige
Ruan Pienaar
JP Pietersen
Handre Pollard
Morne Steyn
Adriaan Strauss
Duane Vermeulen


Oh my ****ing god. Sideshow Bob is on the team. No Coetzee, no Koch. Kolisi picked and I predict Oosthuizen to de selected as a prop. No Scarra Ntubeni either.

And there it is! Rudy Paige picked over Cobus Reinach. No Springbok minutes but he gets to go with the team to England. Disgrace.

Morne Steyn on the team. This is getting worse and worse. Steyn, Kirchner, Kolisi, Oosthuizen, Paige... Man, this entire team is done before the tournament starts.


Backs (14)
Willie le Roux, Zane Kirchner, Bryan Habana, JP Pietersen, Lwazi Mvovo, Jean de Villiers (captain), Jesse Kriel, Damian de Allende, Pat Lambie, Handré Pollard, Morné Steyn, Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar, Rudy Paige

Forwards (17)
Duane Vermeulen, Schalk Burger, Willem Alberts, Francois Louw, Siya Kolisi, Eben Etzebeth, Lood de Jager, Victor Matfield, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Beast Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, Jannie du Plessis, Frans Malherbe, Coenie Oosthuizen, Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Schalk Brits
 
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You guys aren't taking Coetzee to the World Cup? Whut?
 
I think Coetzee is injured too badly. So the leaked squad was correct, not ideal but honestly Paige for Reinach is not the biggest deal. We still have the tools to succeed if we can perform.
 
Personally, these would be my changes:


Oosthuizen -> Koch
Kolisi -> Mohoje
Paige -> Reinach
Steyn -> Jantjies
Kirchner -> Who the **** cares?
 
Probably they are there just to carry bags, only one fetcher? Its a damn same that the combination of De Allende and Kriel will broken up in this WC. My team for a quarter 15. W Le Roux14. L Mvovo13. J Kriel12. D De Allende11. B Habana10. P Lambie9. F Dupreez(vc)8 D Vermeulen(c)7.S Burger6.F Louw5. P Du Toit4. E Etzebeth3. J Dup2.B Dup1. Beast16.S Brits17.Coenie18. Malherbe19. V Matfield20. Alberts21. Doesn't matter22.Pollard23.De Villiers
 
Genuine question: are Kirchner & Paige quota picks?

well who would you have picked instead of Kirchner? some of the other top options are also black/coloured, e.g. Hendricks, Aplon.

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Does that mean Coetzee, Louw, Le Roux, Pollard and JPP are already fit? I liked what I saw from Alberts and PSdT back from injury and assuming they'll have more impact the more they get back into things. Add those props and the pack is sorted and with quality and tested back up. Its looking better on the injury front than I'd have hoped. I just hope those players will be matchfit when the serious games start.

The single most important player IMO for SA... Fourie du Preez. A lot will depend on his fitness. We simply don't have options who are as complete a player in what is probably the most critical position from a SA gameplan POV. The fact that he hasn't played for us in an age is irrelevant. That and if JdV makes it or not IE if we are +FdP (even at 70%) and -JdV, I am all of a sudden an optimistic man.

Frans Steyn is also available. I don't know how I feel about that though. Possibly I think he'd be a better inclusion than Kirchner but I see him behind DDA and Serfontein for the 12 jersey and behind Le Roux, Lambie and Kriel at 15 so a last resort utility back possibly/hopefully if he does make the cut.

I'm not convinced Du Preez is so great anymore. And that's a lot coming form me, because I rate him as probably one of the top 5, or at least top ten, players in the world in the professional era. off the top of my head Mcaw, Umaga, Hayman, Du Preez, Johnson would be my top 5, but not necessarily in that order.
 
There is no place for RACISM in sports. We only want to see the best representing the country and the best team or individual to win!!. Not the colour of the skin!!!
 
I think Coetzee is injured too badly. So the leaked squad was correct, not ideal but honestly Paige for Reinach is not the biggest deal. We still have the tools to succeed if we can perform.

What happens in the likely event of FdP being injured though; its a choice between Pienaar and Paige... where it could easily have been one of De Klerk, Hougaard or Reinach.

Genuine question: are Kirchner & Paige quota picks?

The rumors I'd heard was Meyer got instructed to pick 9 players 'of color' and De Allende could count towards that and that 3 choices just seem a tad.. forced. I'd imagine Paige is a pure quota pick as he isn't brilliant, hasn't even played for a god while and is 3rd choice at the Bulls nevermind the Bokke.

Kirchner is a tougher one. Its a pick most will scoff at but Meyer has consistently picked Pienaar and JdV which the majority of fans also scoff at. The reality though is we are thin at 15 and Meyer is for a large part going with experience. The other options are Kriel and Lambie but I see both as probably 1st choice in other positions while Frans Steyn I also have issues with and agree with his exclusion.

Probably they are there just to carry bags, only one fetcher? Its a damn same that the combination of De Allende and Kriel will broken up in this WC. My team for a quarter 15. W Le Roux14. L Mvovo13. J Kriel12. D De Allende11. B Habana10. P Lambie9. F Dupreez(vc)8 D Vermeulen(c)7.S Burger6.F Louw5. P Du Toit4. E Etzebeth3. J Dup2.B Dup1. Beast16.S Brits17.Coenie18. Malherbe19. V Matfield20. Alberts21. Doesn't matter22.Pollard23.De Villiers

We think along very similar lines. That's very close to my line-up.
well who would you have picked instead of Kirchner? some of the other top options are also black/coloured, e.g. Hendricks, Aplon.

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I'm not convinced Du Preez is so great anymore. And that's a lot coming form me, because I rate him as probably one of the top 5, or at least top ten, players in the world in the professional era. off the top of my head Mcaw, Umaga, Hayman, Du Preez, Johnson would be my top 5, but not necessarily in that order.

Hendricks and Aplon, much as I love both, aren't RWC players. I think most coaches would favor better defense over better attacking ability in a RWC where you don't have 'complete' players. Aplon and Hendricks have consistently shown their lack of physical presence is a liability in tighter matches.

FdP I still say is our most important player even if he isn't the player he was simply for the facts that 1) 9 was and still is SA's most important position, 2) our backline and especially our playmakers are somewhat green and you do want more experience and lastly 3) the alternatives in the sqaud are Pienaar and Paige so the quality of replacements drop of hugely due to the non-selection of ur three form 9s.
 
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