South Africa - World Cup 2015 Discussion Thread

[SomeOke]

First let me look at a some context, I'm struggling to digest a straight list:

Props (8): Jannie du Plessis(th), Steven Kitshoff(lh), Vincent Koch(th), Frans Malherbe(th), Tendai Mtawarira(lh), Trevor Nyakane(lh), Heinke van der Merwe(lh), Marcel van der Merwe(th)
Hookiers (4): Schalk Brits, Bismarck du Plessis, Scarra Ntubeni, Adriaan Strauss
Locks (3): Eben Etzebeth, Victor Matfield, Franco Mostert
Loosies (7): Willem Alberts, Schalk Burger, Marcell Coetzee, Siya Kolisi, Francois Louw, Teboho "Oupa" Mohoje, Warren Whiteley
Scrumhalves (3): Faf de Klerk, Rudy Paige, Ruan Pienaar
Fly-Halves (3): Elton Jantjies, Handré Pollard, Morné Steyn
Centres (1): Damian De Allende,
Wings (4): Bryan Habana, Cornal Hendricks, Lwazi Mvovo, JP Pietersen
Fullbacks (3): Zane Kirchner, Jesse Kriel, Willie le Roux

Injured/Conditioning squad:
Heinrich Brussow (Cheetahs/Docomo, Japan), Loose forward, 20

Lood de Jager (Cheetahs), Lock, 9

Jean de Villiers (Stormers), Centre, 106

Fourie du Preez (Suntory, Japan), Scrumhalf, 70

Pieter-Steph du Toit (Sharks), Lock, 2

Jaque Fourie (Kobe, Japan), Centre, 72

Patrick Lambie (Sharks), Flyhalf / Fullback, 40

Lionel Mapoe (Lions), Centre, 0

Coenie Oosthuizen (Cheetahs), Prop, 21

Cobus Reinach (Sharks), Scrumhalf, 6

Jan Serfontein (Bulls), Centre, 20

Frans Steyn (Sharks), Centre, 53

Duane Vermeulen (Stormers), No 8, 29

Anyway it's hard to comment on a list of 50 it's basically anyone halfway decent in South Africa. That said it's a fair squad, for me there are no clear ommisions and just about everyone who deserves a call up has gotten one (except for perhaps Kriel and de Jongh). Can't really comment until the squad has been cut a bit, for now I'm happy.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

That said it's a fair squad, for me there are no clear ommisions and just about everyone who deserves a call up has gotten one (except for perhaps Kriel and de Jongh). Can't really comment until the squad has been cut a bit, for now I'm happy.

That's pretty much the situation, yes. I think the fact that we'l be disagreeing on players who should've made the cut etc just serve to illustrate that it's a pretty fair squad for the most part IE I don't think De Jongh did anything to deserve a call up; the amount of times he either over ran a ball, dropped a ball or just weren't in position for a ball all with the try line begging rules him out IMO.

Kriel is the only guy I think everyone unanimously thinks deserved a call that didn't.

Depening on the final selections at first glance it looks to me like 5 lock, scrumhalf and both centers are the positions pretty much up in air or where we can potentially 'go wrong'. I mean the loose forwards and props are also highly unsure but between 3 of our tight heads I wouldn't mind either as an example. I suppose we'll have to wait on injuries, see how the guys getting their chances i the RC go and wil get to scream "Bloody murder!" only later on.

 

[Kiwi_]

How's Habanna looking, is he going to be on form for the RWC?

 

[TRF_heineken]

How's Habanna looking, is he going to be on form for the RWC?

Wait and see...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

How's Habanna looking, is he going to be on form for the RWC?

Not in 2007 form but still the best option we have on the wing. Still a pacey guy (if not as outright explosive anymore) but it's his work off the ball that makes him an auto pick for the Bokke. His intercept for Toulon when neither side could breach the defenses efectively gave them the Euro ***le.

If Habana were playing for a national side that made full use of their wingers he'd have been even more of legend IMO.

 

[Canuck]

[Anyway it's hard to comment on a list of 50 it's basically anyone halfway decent in South Africa. That said it's a fair squad, for me there are no clear ommisions and just about everyone who deserves a call up has gotten one (except for perhaps Kriel and de Jongh). Can't really comment until the squad has been cut a bit, for now I'm happy.

I don't really consider de Jongh a major omission. I feel like Kriel should have definitly been the choice over Kolisi and I wish Hougaard had been included in the mix at wing.

I also would have been curious to see CJ Stander try his hand at blindside, instead of Oupa, but it looks like Stander is focusing on making Ireland for 2016.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I don't really consider de Jongh a major omission. I feel like Kriel should have definitly been the choice over Kolisi and I wish Hougaard had been included in the mix at wing.

I also would have been curious to see CJ Stander try his hand at blindside, instead of Oupa, but it looks like Stander is focusing on making Ireland for 2016.

CJ won't get a shot if he stays abroad. The new Springbok policy is to let uncapped players be selected only if they play in South Africa.

I'm also unhappy about Hougaard and Kriel not making the first squad. But as I said a lot can still happen. The squad was just for the Rugby championship and depending on injuries, some players might still make the cut for the World Cup.

Perhaps HM sees Kriel and Hougaard as "secret weapons" and doesn't want them to get hurt now... We'll never know.

 

[SomeOke]

Perhaps HM sees Kriel and Hougaard as "secret weapons" and doesn't want them to get hurt now... We'll never know.

I actually forgot about Hougard, that is actually the most surprising non-selection. He pretty much single handedly lost us the game against Wales last year, but he's been our best wing in Super Rugby this year by quite a bit. Also his versatility would usually see him be a handy bench player, clearly his playing on the wing has hurt his chances - perhaps unfairly.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Assuming all injured players are unavailable for the match against the World XV on the weekend and we can only select players in the 36 my matchday squad would be:

1 Anyone of Kitshoff/Beast/Heinke- I can't split them
2 Bismarck
3 Malherbe
What an awesome front row again!! with Bissie on form and Jannie out. I am very excited about Heinke and Kitshoff but TBH Beast has done little wrong in an underperforming team. My preference would be to let Beast sit this one out but Heinke and Kitshoff have also been carrying a HUGE workload in 2015. I hope for clever rotation at loose head. Malherbe and Koch have been rotating quite sucesssfully already. I wouldn't mind MvdM joining them at all in the lead up to the RWC.
4 Etzebeth
5 Matfield
With Mostert on the bench we only have these 3 locks on the books ATM. Mohoje maybe as a lock option? I think he can add value here rather than in the loosies. I wouldn't test that out in the RC though so maybe this game. I hear HM is in talks with Hargreaves and Kruger as well. I also have a lot of time for Francois van der Merwe (not Franco van der Merwe). Pity Flip van der Merwe has ruled himsef out. With Heinke van der Merwe, Armand van der Merwe and Marcel van der Merwe in the front row we could have fielded a very competitive tight 5 all named Van der Merwe. Surely that'd be worth the effort LOL!!!
6 Francois Louw
7 Willem Alberts
8 Warren Whitely
I want to see if Alberts can still take the step up in green. I also feel comfortable bringing Aberts in as he is so different to Whiteley I feel they should complement each other splendidly.
9 Pienaar
10 Steyn
I'd never have thought I'd go here but my first choices in Reinach(and FdP)/Lambie are out injured and I feel it'd be better to see Pollard paired with a more nippy scrummie than Pienaar with Faf and Pollard comin on as a pair later on. I feel Pollard looks like he lost some confidence on the EoYT and has not been playing his natural game in SR. I'd ease him back in even if I think he is the long term option.. maybe because I think he is the long term option.
11 Habana
12 De Allende
13 JPP mostly due to all other options being injured
14 Hendricks
15 Le Roux with an asterisk that if he can't get the error-rate down from game to game he gets the drop to either the no. 14 or 22 shirt soon and if he can't sort it out from there I'd drop him out of the match 23 entirely. You can't give away 14 points a game in the hope of getting back 14 in a RWC. The man needs to do the basics right first and foremost.

16 Strauss
17 Anyone of Kitshoff/Beast/Heinke- I can't split them
18 Franco Mostert
19 Coetzee the most rounded coming in (though it should've been Kriel!)
20 Faf de Klerk
21 Pollard
22 Kriel
23 Vincent Koch

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Anyone keen to hazard what the Bok 31 will look like?

I'm predicting (assuming a 18/13 split):

Props
Jannie du Plessis - TBF the old timer managed his two best performances in either green or black in 4 years before going out injured. Should be available.
Tendai Mtawarira - He'll get there as he is steady if not in superb form per se.
Trevor Nyakane - Auto pick seeing as he covers both sides and Kitshoff hasn't gotten any game time in the lead up.
3 of Kitshoff/Malherbe/Koch/Van der Merwe - If Kitshoff is 100% fit I imagine he'll go through as a 3rd loose head while Malherbe is likeliest to go through of the reserve tight heads I'd imagine. Koch being injured and getting the finger from Poite while MvdM apparently did alright even if going AWOL in the loose I've been told? I've yet to watch the warm up game.

Hookers
Bismarck du Plessis
Adriaan Strauss
Schalk Brits - seeing as Ntubeni has been released to WP I assume Brits has got the nod.
To be honest here I feel Strauss has got in on past performances but again, I havn't watched the last match- anyone got any comments there? I am of the opinion we have a better back up in Craig Burden.

Locks
Pretty sewn up between
Eben Etzebeth
Lood de Jager
Victor Matfield
PS du Toit/Flip van der Merwe
I'd imagine. Depending on the split both FvdM aad PSdT is likely to lose out though I'd imagine Meyer will go with 4 locks with PSdT covering the flanks rather than Alberts or someone covering for lock.

Loosies
Duane Vermeulen - can't leave him out even if he hasn't had game time; the tyoe of player you know will give it all and has a very direct game so not as susceptible to dips in form and he can play himself match fit in the pool stages IMO.
Willem Alberts - he'll get even more valuable the tighter the games get.
2 of Marcel Coetzee/Francois Louw/Heinrich Brussow
Schalk Burger - as Mr Fixit
Who to leave out though. I'd drop Brussow..

Scrummies
**** me but it looks like Pienaar has it sewn up what with hogging game time in the lead up.
Pienaar
FdP
Reniach
Which should really have read 1)De Klerk, 2)Reinach, 3)FdP while we were experimenting IMO.

Flyhalves
Lambie
Pollard
Steyn
I expect Meyer will go either 2/3 or 3/3 in the halves which makes sense if you take Lambie as back up fullback and the fact that Pollard, Pienaar and reinach can cover other positions at a pinch.

Center
De Allende
Kriel
De Villiers - the required 'leadership' passanger

Outbacks
Le Roux
Habana
Mvovo - think he did enough and will get in, at least I hope he gets in ahead of some of our other likely options.
JPP/Hendricks/Kirchner or another center in Serfontein (who should've gotten time either for the Bokke or at CC to get match fit IMO) - I wouldn't know. Poor options all round in any case.

 

[ZeroTwo]

Looking at your loose forwards, that's a monstrous choice. Can't believe the amount of talent there!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Looking at your loose forwards, that's a monstrous choice. Can't believe the amount of talent there!

Beyond those guys I can name a couple more that wouldn't let us down but you can only field 3 in the backrow at any given time and it won't make up for how thin we are elsewhere sadly.

 

[ZeroTwo]

Beyond those guys I can name a couple more that wouldn't let us down but you can only field 3 in the backrow at any given time and it won't make up for how thin we are elsewhere sadly.

Tell England that. We'd just stick them in a 12. shirt.

But you're right. None of the SH front 3's particularly inspire fear and dread the world round. Then again, England aren't far ahead in that aspect and Ireland's is only passable.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think the Squad will more likely look like this:

Props:
Beast Mtawarira
Trevor Nyakane
Marcel v/d Merwe
Frans Malherbe
Jannie Du Plessis
Steven Kitshoff

Hookers:
Bismarck Du Plessis
Adriaan Strauss
Schalk Brits

Locks:
Victor Matfield
Eben Etzebeth
Lood De Jager
Pieter-Steph Du Toit

Loose Forwards:
Duane Vermeulen
Heinrich Brussouw
Schalk Burger
Willem Alberts

Scrumhalf:
Fourie Du Preez
Ruan Pienaar
Cobus Reinach

Fly Half:
Handre Pollard
Pat Lambie
Morne Steyn

Centres:
Damian De Allende
Jesse Kriel
JDV
Jan Serfontein

Back Three:
Willie Le Roux
Bryan Habana
Lwazi Mvovo
Zane Kirchner

Thre are some tough choices to be made. And I'm wondering whether HM will take so many props along from the start, and if he'd rather have one or 2 of them on back-up.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

We've basically got the same idea of what Meyer is thinking in broad strokes. It's pointless discussing it really which makes me depressed. I mean, he'll either cut a prop to add another openside flank or cut Serfontein or Kirchner from the backs.

I understand you can't take everyone but it makes me sad to think at least one of Alberts/Burger/Coetzee/Louw/Brussow will miss out on the final squad while in other positions we are carrying some passangers.

All in all though it could have been a lot worse. I don't agree with Meyer on the continued inclusions of Pienaar, JdV, Matfield and Kirchner but I get where he is coming from and it might pay off on the day for him and I do hope it does but I stand by my belief that unless a player isn't close to being on par form-wise with another working just as hard if not harder then numbers of caps shouldn't make the decision.

 

[TRF_heineken]

We've basically got the same idea of what Meyer is thinking in broad strokes. It's pointless discussing it really which makes me depressed. I mean, he'll either cut a prop to add another openside flank or cut Serfontein or Kirchner from the backs.

I understand you can't take everyone but it makes me sad to think at least one of Alberts/Burger/Coetzee/Louw/Brussow will miss out on the final squad while in other positions we are carrying some passangers.

All in all though it could have been a lot worse. I don't agree with Meyer on the continued inclusions of Pienaar, JdV, Matfield and Kirchner but I get where he is coming from and it might pay off on the day for him and I do hope it does but I stand by my belief that unless a player isn't close to being on par form-wise with another working just as hard if not harder then numbers of caps shouldn't make the decision.

Yeah, I think judgement day is nearly here. Especially for JDV.

I think Francois Louw will be the (surprize?) exclusion of the squad. And I think it's mainly because of his injury and Brussouw playing so well, and just getting better.

The other thing is if HM will look at versatility or specialists? Because if he looks at versatility, I can see guys like Teboho Mohoje and JP Pietersen in the squad.

It will also be interesting to see how HM will keep the politicians at bay, and if there will be some sort of influence like with our Cricket team.

 

[Canuck]

I think the Squad will more likely look like this:

Props:
Beast Mtawarira
Trevor Nyakane
Marcel v/d Merwe
Frans Malherbe
Jannie Du Plessis
Steven Kitshoff

Hookers:
Bismarck Du Plessis
Adriaan Strauss
Schalk Brits

Locks:
Victor Matfield
Eben Etzebeth
Lood De Jager
Pieter-Steph Du Toit

Loose Forwards:
Duane Vermeulen
Heinrich Brussouw
Schalk Burger
Willem Alberts

Scrumhalf:
Fourie Du Preez
Ruan Pienaar
Cobus Reinach

Fly Half:
Handre Pollard
Pat Lambie
Morne Steyn

Centres:
Damian De Allende
Jesse Kriel
JDV
Jan Serfontein

Back Three:
Willie Le Roux
Bryan Habana
Lwazi Mvovo
Zane Kirchner

Thre are some tough choices to be made. And I'm wondering whether HM will take so many props along from the start, and if he'd rather have one or 2 of them on back-up.

My prediction for the squad is almost identical, except I have Coetzee in the back row instead of Marcel van der Merwe as a sixth prop and I think JP Pietersen will grab an outside back berth instead of Kirchner.

 

[TRF_heineken]

My prediction for the squad is almost identical, except I have Coetzee in the back row instead of Marcel van der Merwe as a sixth prop and I think JP Pietersen will grab an outside back berth instead of Kirchner.

Yeah, it's the area where I'm thinking the change might also come. But I have this idea in my head that HM would rather take along enough props, especially tightheads to England because of the battle up front. Kirchner plays in the NH and that's why I think he'll get the nod ahead of JPP, who has also been in rather poor form of late.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yeah, I think judgement day is nearly here. Especially for JDV.

I think Francois Louw will be the (surprize?) exclusion of the squad. And I think it's mainly because of his injury and Brussouw playing so well, and just getting better.

The other thing is if HM will look at versatility or specialists? Because if he looks at versatility, I can see guys like Teboho Mohoje and JP Pietersen in the squad.

It will also be interesting to see how HM will keep the politicians at bay, and if there will be some sort of influence like with our Cricket team.

You can be sure there is backroom pressure on Meyer to include as many non-whites as possible. I don't know if you picked it up but Damian de Allende's father has come forward in the media on the back of querries into Damian's race. As in he was asked what race Damian is and if he can count towards being 'non-white' as a person of 'mixed race'! I mean seriously, the sports ministry under the ANC is starting to plumb depths approaching that of the Apartheid government at its most bizarre. Next they'll have all players do the pencil test.

 

[TRF_heineken]

You can be sure there is backroom pressure on Meyer to include as many non-whites as possible. I don't know if you picked it up but Damian de Allende's father has come forward in the media on the back of querries into Damian's race. As in he was asked what race Damian is and if he can count towards being 'non-white' as a person of 'mixed race'! I mean seriously, the sports ministry under the ANC is starting to plumb depths approaching that of the Apartheid government at its most bizarre. Next they'll have all players do the pencil test.

Yeah, that's something I have picked up the past few weeks. Actually I picked it up on Sport24's website first when they had a video blog about the upcoming RC. Where they said that HM could possibly field as many as 7 non-white players at once.