[2015 RWC] Pool B: South Africa vs. USA (07/10/2015)

[TRF_heineken]

I like the team, no question there, it may even be stronger than the team who played Scotland it depends on whether you feel the gain from Jdp > Malherbe is greater than the loss from JPP > Mvovo. Gun to my head I'd say its a stronger team.

That said I'm going to be a negative Nancy for a while (I feel like it's become my default role on SA threads haha).

While I thought we played good rugby on Saturday it was certainly old school rugby as well, meaning we went back to our style of play from 2007 on-wards, using big forwards to dominate the gain line on both attack and defense until they break to such a degree that we get a penalty or can just send it to the wings for an easy try. This was certainly effectively, and I do understand the argument that we should play to our strengths and not try to play like a team we aren't, however this particular tactic has been shown up in the past, any time we get matched physically our primary attacking avenue gets blocked and we tend to panic and kick too much. Additionally territory is extremely important in this kind of game plan, and some of the better sides have outside backs who are just as good or better and can beat us at the territorial game.

Basically what I'm trying to say is: Are we too one-dimensional to be serious contenders in the world cup? I do like du Preez but it feels like he goes for the one-off forward runner 90% of the time, which can get predictable, I'd like to see him giving it to Pollard and le Roux more when we have front foot ball. Even Pollard and DdA tend to mostly take contact, and I'm afraid we are going to be found out as too predictable in the knock-out stages.

On the plus side we could argue that our side is better than it was in 2011 and the same game plan could actually work with our current personnel, but that's a tough one to call.

I have no doubt we can beat the US and maybe even Wales but I'm worried our tactics will get exposed if/when we encounter the "big 3" of NZ, Aus, Ireland. I'm not trying to knock the Bokke, I'd just like to see what everyone thinks?

Hmm...

I don't know why everyone has a problem when we revert to the Traditional style of the Springbok and the manner in which we TRY TO WIN GAMES. Isn't that the purpose of the World Cup?? To win.

I think the plan for this game is to get a big lead, of about 20 points, and then try some more extravagant attempts at scoring tries, and then if we are going well, take our stars off, and let our subs (who haven't played much) run them ragged.

 

[WaterboySA]

I like the team, no question there, it may even be stronger than the team who played Scotland it depends on whether you feel the gain from Jdp > Malherbe is greater than the loss from JPP > Mvovo. Gun to my head I'd say its a stronger team.

That said I'm going to be a negative Nancy for a while (I feel like it's become my default role on SA threads haha).

While I thought we played good rugby on Saturday it was certainly old school rugby as well, meaning we went back to our style of play from 2007 on-wards, using big forwards to dominate the gain line on both attack and defense until they break to such a degree that we get a penalty or can just send it to the wings for an easy try. This was certainly effectively, and I do understand the argument that we should play to our strengths and not try to play like a team we aren't, however this particular tactic has been shown up in the past, any time we get matched physically our primary attacking avenue gets blocked and we tend to panic and kick too much. Additionally territory is extremely important in this kind of game plan, and some of the better sides have outside backs who are just as good or better and can beat us at the territorial game.

Basically what I'm trying to say is: Are we too one-dimensional to be serious contenders in the world cup? I do like du Preez but it feels like he goes for the one-off forward runner 90% of the time, which can get predictable, I'd like to see him giving it to Pollard and le Roux more when we have front foot ball. Even Pollard and DdA tend to mostly take contact, and I'm afraid we are going to be found out as too predictable in the knock-out stages.

On the plus side we could argue that our side is better than it was in 2011 and the same game plan could actually work with our current personnel, but that's a tough one to call.

I have no doubt we can beat the US and maybe even Wales but I'm worried our tactics will get exposed if/when we encounter the "big 3" of NZ, Aus, Ireland. I'm not trying to knock the Bokke, I'd just like to see what everyone thinks?

Finals are dull games because most of the times the teams play conservative rugby. That is why SA won the 2 finals. We know how to play conservative rugby. That said, I can't see SA getting past the semi's. If we can make the final we will win.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Finals are dull games because most of the times the teams play conservative rugby. That is why SA won the 2 finals. We know how to play conservative rugby. That said, I can't see SA getting past the semi's. If we can make the final we will win.

Have a feeling you might be right. Haven't lost a final yet.

 

[Sotavalta]

I am 99% (1% less because of Japan) sure we will win this match and I think it will be with 28 points.

Have a feeling we will get past the QF, but I don't know about the Semi finals...

 

[SomeOke]

I guess my concern is that "winning rugby" isn't winning rugby anymore. Ben Smith, Israel Folau, Sexton, these are all masters of making us pay when we try to play a territorial game, and there have been examples in recent years of where our game plan has failed us. Everything we do well, we must continue to do well, I'm not saying we should not kick when it's required or use our powerful forwards when we can, I just feel we don't have that ability to switch it up if this game plan fails us.

Anyway this is the last negative comment I will spew, from now on it's 100% behind the Bokke!

 

[TheOvalBall]

I guess my concern is that "winning rugby" isn't winning rugby anymore. Ben Smith, Israel Folau, Sexton, these are all masters of making us pay when we try to play a territorial game, and there have been examples in recent years of where our game plan has failed us. Everything we do well, we must continue to do well, I'm not saying we should not kick when it's required or use our powerful forwards when we can, I just feel we don't have that ability to switch it up if this game plan fails us.

Anyway this is the last negative comment I will spew, from now on it's 100% behind the Bokke!

Boks lack creativity on attack.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I guess my concern is that "winning rugby" isn't winning rugby anymore. Ben Smith, Israel Folau, Sexton, these are all masters of making us pay when we try to play a territorial game, and there have been examples in recent years of where our game plan has failed us. Everything we do well, we must continue to do well, I'm not saying we should not kick when it's required or use our powerful forwards when we can, I just feel we don't have that ability to switch it up if this game plan fails us.

Anyway this is the last negative comment I will spew, from now on it's 100% behind the Bokke!

A rare positive from me; yes, we have had a rough 2 years but remember that we've been without (on and off) all of Du Preez, Alberts, Vermeulen, Etzebeth, PSdT, form wingers, Le Roux's been 50/50 at best etc etc.

If everything falls into place- and it isn't 100% but most of it is getting there even if we've left it late through being forced through injury or just plain poor selections- we just might get there. We are also due a bit of luck everything considered 2011 till now.

 

[Will]

Good to see South Africa clearly haven't bothered practicing the art of tackling below the neck since their last game.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Some BS reffing here; pedantic against SA and USA clearly in from the side of the maul there..

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Poor decision making from us not helping..

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C'mon, Habana. We need you. Drop the unecessary stuff. Just ship the ball to De Allende.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Boks slowly getting into the game.

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Boks wayyyyyy to slow at the rucks.

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Very poor match.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

No disrespect to th USA but this is worryingly inaccurate rugby from our 1st choice team.

 

[TheOvalBall]

And they are playing their 2nd choice team.

 

[Toko_11]

SA look like the most beatable big 3 team...

hope we get them in our pool for the next WC me no wants to play NZ and Argentina for a long time...

Bring on South Africa and some 6N team, Ideally Wales.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Those 2 early second half tries really settled the Boks into some sort of play.

 

[TheOvalBall]

That was a practice match. Ah well. Boks did what they had to do. First 0 points from a team in this year's World Cup.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

SA look like the most beatable big 3 team...

hope we get them in our pool for the next WC me no wants to play NZ and Argentina for a long time...

Bring on South Africa and some 6N team, Ideally Wales.

Biggest winning margin (64) despite the rather lacklustre patches though. TBH I'm glad there's a few ****les ITO the finishing still as SA are at our best with something to prove.

 

[Toko_11]

Biggest winning margin (64) despite the rather lacklustre patches though. TBH I'm glad there's a few ****les ITO the finishing still as SA are at our best with something to prove.

well done, tho I think they needed that result.. they are angry.

and usa was just woeful.. I was amazed how the score wasn't higher at HT...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

well done, tho I think they needed that result.. they are angry.

and usa was just woeful.. I was amazed how the score wasn't higher at HT...

Well its hard to take anything from the game for the USA seeing as they weren't fielding their full team and they'd need their most settled combinations in order to push us. The fact they fell away to two early tries meant they weren't kicking their penalties at goals from early on. Now for a short turn around for them to face Japan. Something has got to give with this scheduling. SA has to wait 10 days for a QF, USA barely have a chance to catch their breath before Japan who themselves went directly from beating us to getting thumped by Scotland in part due to the scheduling.

 

[Ospervat]

SA look like the most beatable big 3 team...

hope we get them in our pool for the next WC me no wants to play NZ and Argentina for a long time...

Bring on South Africa and some 6N team, Ideally Wales.

 

[ABs2011]

Who says you're going to be playing the French?
To be completely honest I think it is going to be a very close Ireland France game and wouldn't be surprised if you face up to Ireland in the QF.

Haha, touche!!

@The Jones Boy please point me to the bit where I said we are going to beat the French!
Mmm, it seems you are the one making assumptions, not me

I only saw the second half of today's game but thought SA looked pretty good albeit against a rather weak opposition. Copngrats to Habana on equaliing Lomu's record!