[2015 RWC] Pool B: South Africa vs. USA (07/10/2015)

[TRF_stormer2010]

Very happy with the selections;

Pretty much builds on the previous two results, keeping the key guys as sharp as possible seeing as we have 10 days in the lead up to the QF and then Malherbe is starting. Mvovo probably only their since JPP isn't 100%.

Those that havn't had their 20 minutes yet (Brits, Paige, Steyn, Serfontein off the bench) and a bit time for Alberts to get match fit (I'd have started him though and given him the say into how hard/long he wants/ feels he can give 100%).

No Pienaar, Kirchner, JdV, Matfield or JdP.. yes, I'm a happy man. Paige is the lesser of two evils. Oosthuizen.. I suppose he is our only option since JdP is carrying ****le. I'm just a tad worried. Lets say JdP doesn't recover in time... then we are actually stuck with Oosthuizen. Really should have been Kocht. I expect Kriel or at a pinch Morne Steyn would cover 15. No real issues. Just hoping we win firstly and stay inury free.

 

[ABs2011]

I think that's a very good decision by SA to pick their best? team. At this stage its about the last final prep for the lockout stage. Chance of injury is worth the risk if it means the team is firing come the QFs. I said it after the Japan game, but will say it again, I think SA is in with a real good shot at winning this RWC. They can beat anyone on their day and as an ABs supporter the prospect of playing them in the SF is not one I am comfortable with at all! I personally think the winner of the tournament comes from the winner of that semifinal (who-ever it is).

 

[WaterboySA]

Happy with the team. As I said earlier, no time to fool around.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I really hope they give Rudy Paige a decent run, at least 20 minutes. I know he's not everyone's choice (mine included), but he does clear the ball very quick from the rucks, he was one of the reasons the Bulls backline got better this year in the Super Rugby.

 

[WaterboySA]

Francois Hougaard should've been there, not Rudi. I've got nothing against the guy. But he could not even make the BB Currycup side. Yes I know Rudi was in the group,but he's just not good enough. I take the 3rd choice 9 as our replacement for Fourie if he's hurt, because I think Ruan is a liability. Would you have Rudy play first choice 9 in a WC final if Fourie is hurt?I believe that if Fourie is hurt, we go out.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think that's a very good decision by SA to pick their best? team. At this stage its about the last final prep for the lockout stage. Chance of injury is worth the risk if it means the team is firing come the QFs. I said it after the Japan game, but will say it again, I think SA is in with a real good shot at winning this RWC. They can beat anyone on their day and as an ABs supporter the prospect of playing them in the SF is not one I am comfortable with at all! I personally think the winner of the tournament comes from the winner of that semifinal (who-ever it is).

Its pretty much the best team we can field considering injuries and the fact we can't call up guys we've left at home at this stage. That SF is looming very large indeed. Its certainly not wise to look beyond the QFs but my gut also tells me the winner will come from that SF. Even if NZ will be favorites and have the beating of SA 4 times out of 5 we only need that 1 time. But that's a whole lot of ifs and there's a lot of rugby to be played still.

Happy with the team. As I said earlier, no time to fool around.

Agreed.

I really hope they give Rudy Paige a decent run, at least 20 minutes. I know he's not everyone's choice (mine included), but he does clear the ball very quick from the rucks, he was one of the reasons the Bulls backline got better this year in the Super Rugby.

He isn't Pienaar. That's good enough for me. I don't mean anything personal by it, I just feel Pienaar hasn't been adding anything to our cause and we have better options. This is a professional environment.

 

[WaterboySA]

He isn't Pienaar. That's good enough for me.

Maybe I should give you 10/10 for that, and give Rudy a chance.....can't be worse than Pienaar.

 

[TRF_heineken]

He isn't Pienaar. That's good enough for me. I don't mean anything personal by it, I just feel Pienaar hasn't been adding anything to our cause and we have better options. This is a professional environment.

It's a bit harsh though. in the RC, he was rather good. and in this World Cup, he started the Japan game, where everyone was poor. I think in KO's he will add some value, even if it is just for 10-15 minutes. But between him and Paige, it's for me the "between the devil you know and the devil you don't know". We don't know how Paige will perform for the bokke, and if he can make that step up. It's often happened that good SR players just can't make the cut at the international scene. But at least he gets a chance.

 

[TheOvalBall]

It makes sense that the Boks are at full strength with 10 days rest until the next. I like seeing that. Respect the opponents and the next game. Bodes well.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Francois Hougaard should've been there, not Rudi. I've got nothing against the guy. But he could not even make the BB Currycup side. Yes I know Rudi was in the group,but he's just not good enough. I take the 3rd choice 9 as our replacement for Fourie if he's hurt, because I think Ruan is a liability. Would you have Rudy play first choice 9 in a WC final if Fourie is hurt?I believe that if Fourie is hurt, we go out.

That's pretty it for me as well. I've said from the start FdP is our most important player. Not least for the fact that Pienaar and Paige are our back-ups in arguably the most key position for SA teams in general (pun unintended).

Maybe I should give you 10/10 for that, and give Rudy a chance.....can't be worse than Pienaar.

You can always give me a positive rep? I might be a mod but that doens't mean I'm a robot and don't appreciate some positive reinforcement..

It's a bit harsh though. in the RC, he was rather good. and in this World Cup, he started the Japan game, where everyone was poor. I think in KO's he will add some value, even if it is just for 10-15 minutes. But between him and Paige, it's for me the "between the devil you know and the devil you don't know". We don't know how Paige will perform for the bokke, and if he can make that step up. It's often happened that good SR players just can't make the cut at the international scene. But at least he gets a chance.

You've said that before and I don't know what we focus on differently because I'd say the exact opposite. In my view his only good game in the last 2 years was vs the world XV. From there on he has looked robotic in his play, been 50/50 in his kicking and gradually slower in his arrival and distribution from the base. Also, his defense has been poor. I can't remember which of the first RC games it was but he did not complete 1 single tackle. Not a single successful tackle in 4 attempts. That's being a liability. And its not as if he adds anything on attack or ITO kicking. I suspect the only reason he is there is because of the caps he recieved back when he was the Tiger Woods of rugby and supposedly turns into a footballer in NH conditions.

 

[TRF_heineken]

That's pretty it for me as well. I've said from the start FdP is our most important player. Not least for the fact that Pienaar and Paige are our back-ups in arguably the most key position for SA teams in general (pun unintended).


You can always give me a positive rep? I might be a mod but that doens't mean I'm a robot and don't appreciate some positive reinforcement..



You've said that before and I don't know what we focus on differently because I'd say the exact opposite. In my view his only good game in the last 2 years was vs the world XV. From there on he has looked robotic in his play, been 50/50 in his kicking and gradually slower in his arrival and distribution from the base. Also, his defense has been poor. I can't remember which of the first RC games it was but he did not complete 1 single tackle. Not a single successful tackle in 4 attempts. That's being a liability. And its not as if he adds anything on attack or ITO kicking. I suspect the only reason he is there is because of the caps he recieved back when he was the Tiger Woods of rugby and supposedly turns into a footballer in NH conditions.

Maybe we look at different things when we watch the games. Look, I'm not disagreeing with you, as that comment of mine is purely my opinion of Pienaar. I've always liked him so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. If it was up to me, and you know this too, my top 3 contenders for scrumhalf would be 1. Fourie Du Preez, 2. Francois Hougaard and 3. Cobus Reinach. As they are all in form and provide that X-factor our team needs. Pienaar and Paige are basically the same type of scrumhalf, they have a good passing game, and are good kickers from the rucks, and sometimes can snipe through a gap.

 

[TheOvalBall]

I don't mind Pienaar playing, as long as Lambie plays alongside him. Sharks connection. I like combinations.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I don't mind Pienaar playing, as long as Lambie plays alongside him. Sharks connection. I like combinations.

Lambie is the guy that has impressed me the least in a Springbok jersey this year. I honestly think that if Steyn plays a decent 10 minutes, that he'll be the back-up fly half to Pollard.

 

[User1245]

I thought Earl Rose was the Tiger Woods of rugby? Or was he the Jedi of rugby?

Anyway, I like the look of the team. Much like everybody else I wanted a strong team selected. With the amount of players coming back from injury they HAVE to play. I do hope that our subs come on early, especially Alberts.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

It was Earl Rose wasn't it? I can't exactly remember. LOL. Either way a crazy comparison!

Just imagine PdV still being our coach.. Imagine. I've given Meyer a lot of stick but thank goodness we're in the post-Divvy age.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I think that's a very good decision by SA to pick their best? team. At this stage its about the last final prep for the lockout stage. Chance of injury is worth the risk if it means the team is firing come the QFs. I said it after the Japan game, but will say it again, I think SA is in with a real good shot at winning this RWC. They can beat anyone on their day and as an ABs supporter the prospect of playing them in the SF is not one I am comfortable with at all! I personally think the winner of the tournament comes from the winner of that semifinal (who-ever it is).

Who says we're gonna beat the French?
If we do we may get thumped by the Boks.
If we make it to the final against Aussie will we have any players left after those Herculean efforts?
Aussie and Saffers are the joint favourites for the Cup by a long shot.
History tells us the AB's will be lucky to make it passed the quarter finals.
In 91 and 99 we didn't make the finals in a UK based RWC.
We have a poor record at the RWC based here.
Don't get me started on 07...

 

[saulan]

Who says we're gonna beat the French?
If we do we may get thumped by the Boks.
If we make it to the final against Aussie will we have any players left after those Herculean efforts?
Aussie and Saffers are the joint favourites for the Cup by a long shot.
History tells us the AB's will be lucky to make it passed the quarter finals.
In 91 and 99 we didn't make the finals in a UK based RWC.
We have a poor record at the RWC based here.
Don't get me started on 07...

Who says you're going to be playing the French?
To be completely honest I think it is going to be a very close Ireland France game and wouldn't be surprised if you face up to Ireland in the QF.

 

[SomeOke]

I like the team, no question there, it may even be stronger than the team who played Scotland it depends on whether you feel the gain from Jdp > Malherbe is greater than the loss from JPP > Mvovo. Gun to my head I'd say its a stronger team.

That said I'm going to be a negative Nancy for a while (I feel like it's become my default role on SA threads haha).

While I thought we played good rugby on Saturday it was certainly old school rugby as well, meaning we went back to our style of play from 2007 on-wards, using big forwards to dominate the gain line on both attack and defense until they break to such a degree that we get a penalty or can just send it to the wings for an easy try. This was certainly effectively, and I do understand the argument that we should play to our strengths and not try to play like a team we aren't, however this particular tactic has been shown up in the past, any time we get matched physically our primary attacking avenue gets blocked and we tend to panic and kick too much. Additionally territory is extremely important in this kind of game plan, and some of the better sides have outside backs who are just as good or better and can beat us at the territorial game.

Basically what I'm trying to say is: Are we too one-dimensional to be serious contenders in the world cup? I do like du Preez but it feels like he goes for the one-off forward runner 90% of the time, which can get predictable, I'd like to see him giving it to Pollard and le Roux more when we have front foot ball. Even Pollard and DdA tend to mostly take contact, and I'm afraid we are going to be found out as too predictable in the knock-out stages.

On the plus side we could argue that our side is better than it was in 2011 and the same game plan could actually work with our current personnel, but that's a tough one to call.

I have no doubt we can beat the US and maybe even Wales but I'm worried our tactics will get exposed if/when we encounter the "big 3" of NZ, Aus, Ireland. I'm not trying to knock the Bokke, I'd just like to see what everyone thinks?

 

[sigesige00]

Is there any possibility for USA to make another upset against RSA, following Japan?

 

[SomeOke]

Is there any possibility for USA to make another upset against RSA, following Japan?

The odds are stacked against them for three reasons:
- This is a full strength SA side unlike the side that played Japan.
- The USA are resting 7 players from their starting side, presumably targeting the Japan game.
- Rugby is more complex than A > B and B > C then A > C, but it is quite indicative that the USA lost to both Scotland and Samoa (teams we beat fairly comfortably).

I guess anything can happen, but if you're looking for a decent bet to punt I wouldn't count on this being it.