France - World Cup 2015 Discussion Thread

[Bada-Bing!]

Première ligne : Uini Atonio, Eddy Ben Arous, Vincent Debaty, Nicolas Mas, Rabah Slimani, Guilhem Guirado, Benjamin Kayser, Dimitri Szarzewski
Deuxième ligne : Alexandre Flanquart, Yoann Maestri, Pascal Papé
Troisième ligne : Thierry Dusautoir, Bernard Le Roux, Yannick Nyanga, Fulgence Ouedraogo, Damien Chouly, Louis Picamoles
Demis de mêlée : Rory Kockott, Morgan Parra, Sébastien Tillous-Borde
Ouvreurs : Frédéric Michalak, Rémi Tales
Trois quarts : Mathieu Bastareaud, Alexandre Dumoulin, Gaël Fickou, Wesley Fofana, Brice Dulin, Sofiane Guitoune, Yoann Huget, Noa Nakaitaci, Scott Spedding

Pretty strong French Squad. If they can put it together, top pool D they could go all the way. Interesting only 3 locks though, who will cover in case of injury - Le Roux?
Trin Duc was never going to be picked by PSA.

 

[Chistera]

Pretty strong French Squad. If they can put it together, top pool D they could go all the way. Interesting only 3 locks though, who will cover in case of injury - Le Roux?
Trin Duc was never going to be picked by PSA.

Le Roux practiced as 2nd row during the camp, he'll provide cover.
Trinh-Duc was never going to get picked indeed, he's a talented, daring, rugby player and Saint-André doesn't like those (see: Parra -barely made it-, Lopez, Mermoz, Médard...).
Saint-André would rather pick Talès, an average Top 14 player with a conservative playing style, normally reliable enough to come in late and control the late game, which he failed at yesterday.
Apart from that and a couple notable absentees (Burban, Machenaud), strong, physical squad, better not expect some French flair from it though.

 

[TobesHodges]

Omg Tales and Michalak go over Trinh-Duc and Lopez.. Lopez is a magical player how he has not had a look in is beyond me..

 

[dragos03]

In my opinion, Trinh-Duc is one of the best fly-halves in the world. French NT coaches are absolutely retarded to ignore him.

 

[FrenchFan]

Not surprised FTD is out. It was a given he was being taken for a ride. They never game him the time he played 1 test last season!

It's not a bad pick in the pack. That pack will give any of the big side a run for their money.

It's the other half of the team we're missing. They've picked the weakest halfbacks of the lot: Kockott STB Michalak Tales?!

STB+Michalak= the tractors half-backs.

The selection in the backs is more telling with the players they've left out:
FTD Lopez Plisson Machenaud Medard Mermoz Thomas.

It's the staff last hurrah. I hope the dressing room turns and they have a riot on their hands.

- - - Updated - - -

Omg Tales and Michalak go over Trinh-Duc and Lopez.. Lopez is a magical player how he has not had a look in is beyond me..

Lopez was shafted over politics not performance. It was the union pathetic way of getting back at his club. That's all they have left. Backstabbing players they can't manage anyway. Don't worry this hasn't gone unnoticed with the clubs...

 

[kevinly9]

qu'est-ce qui passe avec Huget et son coup de pied accident?

 

[gaston le gaff]

As i said in another thread FTD was picked in the original squad of 36 so he could be discarded later this has been the story amongst the French press for over a month this way PSA does not lose face, saying he dropped him on Sun because he is not an A GRADE KICKER, but then is neither Tales or Michalak neither kick for their club!!!!!!!!!!!!! it is great for Montpellier but must feel for Francois, its absolutely scandalous what has happened, but nothing surprises me from the muppet management of France. Another reason why they do not want Bernie le Bolt Laporte as President he will upset the apple cart too often, and upset the FFR while they have their tea and read Le Monde (french newspaper)

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I have to say I am glad Machenaud and Thomas will play for Racing.

On the selections though, how much is this just par for the course for international rugby?

I mean, for SA we are playing Ruan Pienaar at 9. In the majority of fans' eyes Pienaar is not even 3rd best. He is 3rd best if you want 50+ caps but probably closer to 5th if you add form but inexperienced players. Victor Matfield is a sentimental pick. Jean de Villiers is only there because Meyer went 'all in' on him being SA captain early on. A bad bet and one Meyer seems incapable of reviewing. I could go on and most nations bar arguably (for the most part) NZ could make cases for the percieved (and real to varying degrees?) ineptitude of national selectors.

I expect France having 14 teams to pick from will just increase the likelyhood of poor selections for its test side. I'm not sure where exactly I'm going with this other than maybe France's selections are not all *that* terrible in realtion to most major nations?

 

[gaston le gaff]

What you are saying is understandable but the difference is that FTD is the best 10 in France and this is not me saying this, most players and certainly over 85% of the press, (rugbyrama has a poll going on and 88% are against PSA decision) FTD is dropped for something that hs nothing to do with player ability or previous performances its much ore personal that that.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I wholeheartedly agree FTD is France's best 10 and his percieved lack of ability to dictate play is just that IMO; perception.

What I was asking though is that is that not in line with other nations? In many cases the best in almost everyones opinion just hasn't been included because he doesn't fit the coaches' idea of what he wants from that position, or fit in with other players or just doesn't have enough experience for the coach. IMO and that of most that follow Super Rugby (not just South Africans) Faf de Klerk is SA's best current scrumhalf. Yet he is probably 5th in the pecking order for Meyer specifically.

 

[gaston le gaff]

of course its horses for courses with the coaches, and this is where one of the problem lies, in my opinion and many others, PSA is by no means the best coach for the National team it would be ironic if Noves who starts after the WC picks FTD. as you said certain strategies come into the coaches selection plan.
On Sat Jake White expressed that he wanted the ball kept in play all the time (no touch kicking) to keep the Oyonnax forwards on the continual move, as it is their strongest point, it got a bit boring the ping pong but the result in the end, bonus victory for Montpellier, so in this particular case FTD was not needed if he had been present. The only problem is options and France will certainly have less with FTD not included as Tales is a one trip pony, their loss but sad for Francois.

 

[FrenchFan]

I have to say I am glad Machenaud and Thomas will play for Racing.

sure their clubs will only be too happy to get their internationals back.They are washing their hands off of the national team. Watch the power struggle when/if the staff needs to call back players for replacement due to possible injuries. The clubs are going to tell where to go, Clermont in particular. And SF as well if they go for Plisson.


On the selections though, how much is this just par for the course for international rugby?

I mean, for SA we are playing Ruan Pienaar at 9. In the majority of fans' eyes Pienaar is not even 3rd best. He is 3rd best if you want 50+ caps but probably closer to 5th if you add form but inexperienced players. Victor Matfield is a sentimental pick. Jean de Villiers is only there because Meyer went 'all in' on him being SA captain early on.

same here, Dumoulin Tales Guitoune Kockot are very much sentimental picks. None of them have done anything in terms of performance to earn the call. You can have Kockott back any time )

A bad bet and one Meyer seems incapable of reviewing. I could go on and most nations bar arguably (for the most part) NZ could make cases for the percieved (and real to varying degrees?) ineptitude of national selectors.

I expect France having 14 teams to pick from will just increase the likelyhood of poor selections for its test side. I'm not sure where exactly I'm going with this other than maybe France's selections are not all *that* terrible in realtion to most major nations?

i cannot agree. Other nations are far better coached. NZ AUS SA + Eng Ire Ita Sco Wal all have a better head coach by a long mile. We had Cotter and Schmidt in our league. They transformed Clermont. Do you think the FFr muppets would have taken notice? And this is not surprising. All above unions have a plan to develop their national team. FFr have strictly no plan whatsoever to take les bleus anywhere. There is no political will to reform the league. Zippo.
The union have systematically appointed the wrong coach at the wrong time. You can go thru it with a fine come and you will see. Their timing is atrocious and that incl. the recent appointment of Noves.

 

[JJFlash]

So France's best pair of half backs - Machenaud and FTD are back with their clubs. C'est la folie!!

 

[FrenchFan]

Le Roux practiced as 2nd row during the camp, he'll provide cover.
Trinh-Duc was never going to get picked indeed, he's a talented, daring, rugby player and Saint-André doesn't like those (see: Parra -barely made it-, Lopez, Mermoz, Médard...).
Saint-André would rather pick Talès, an average Top 14 player with a conservative playing style, normally reliable enough to come in late and control the late game, which he failed at yesterday.
Apart from that and a couple notable absentees (Burban, Machenaud), strong, physical squad, better not expect some French flair from it though.

Agreed. They're going to the WRC with a backs division that has 'B side' all over it.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

of course its horses for courses with the coaches, and this is where one of the problem lies, in my opinion and many others, PSA is by no means the best coach for the National team it would be ironic if Noves who starts after the WC picks FTD. as you said certain strategies come into the coaches selection plan.
On Sat Jake White expressed that he wanted the ball kept in play all the time (no touch kicking) to keep the Oyonnax forwards on the continual move, as it is their strongest point, it got a bit boring the ping pong but the result in the end, bonus victory for Montpellier, so in this particular case FTD was not needed if he had been present. The only problem is options and France will certainly have less with FTD not included as Tales is a one trip pony, their loss but sad for Francois.

Certainly. I'm not trying to say not including FTD isn't a huge mistake just that other countries have somewhat similar situation if not always as big in scope than what France has under PSA.

sure their clubs will only be too happy to get their internationals back.They are washing their hands off of the national team. Watch the power struggle when/if the staff needs to call back players for replacement due to possible injuries. The clubs are going to tell where to go, Clermont in particular. And SF as well if they go for Plisson.


On the selections though, how much is this just par for the course for international rugby?


same here, Dumoulin Tales Guitoune Kockot are very much sentimental picks. None of them have done anything in terms of performance to earn the call. You can have Kockott back any time )



i cannot agree. Other nations are far better coached. NZ AUS SA + Eng Ire Ita Sco Wal all have a better head coach by a long mile. We had Cotter and Schmidt in our league. They transformed Clermont. Do you think the FFr muppets would have taken notice? And this is not surprising. All above unions have a plan to develop their national team. FFr have strictly no plan whatsoever to take les bleus anywhere. There is no political will to reform the league. Zippo.
The union have systematically appointed the wrong coach at the wrong time. You can go thru it with a fine come and you will see. Their timing is atrocious and that incl. the recent appointment of Noves.

Nope, you can keep Kockott. Alongside Pienaar Kockott might look tempting but he is better of with you

On PSA being a poor coach and the conflicting agendas of the FFR and the French clubs (exacerbated by the fact that the clubs/LNR are arguably the powerbrokers in French rugby) theres no arguments here. I do understand the frustrations. SA had Peter de Villiers quite recently as a head coach remember? The guy can't get a job as a schools coach now- literally. Meyer is a better coach but he was picked 4 years past his prime and with a 4 year gap in his coaching carreer. Hardly ideal timing and then there is the sports ministers/labor unions/media/provincial unions etc insisting on a radical racial transformation of the team to reflect the country's racial demographics if not the actual demographics of rugby players.

But I am getting off topic here. Suffice to say I understand France's frustrations but still believe both SA and France have it in them to beat any other team in a once off. Winning is sweeter because its done with 1 hand tied behind your back (in France's case adding that the feet are bound together as well though).

 

[gaston le gaff]

of course any team can beat another in a one off as France have proved in previous WC's V New Zealand, but to win all the games and win the WC is really only a dream for the completely insane Frenchman, we have a small chance next time around under Noves if he lasts that long, but it would not surprise me at all to see one of the French clubs once again lift the European Champions Cup, that i'm afraid is the difference.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FrenchFan]

of course any team can beat another in a one off as France have proved in previous WC's V New Zealand, but to win all the games and win the WC is really only a dream for the completely insane Frenchman, we have a small chance next time around under Noves if he lasts that long, but it would not surprise me at all to see one of the French clubs once again lift the European Champions Cup, that i'm afraid is the difference.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stade Francais and Clermont have the best club backlines in Europe. The staff could have worked off both. It's not like it's rocket science.
For SF: Dupuy or Fillol Plisson Danty Sinzelle Camara Nayacalevu Arias
For Clermon:t Parra Lopez Fofana Rougerie Nakaitaci Nalaga Abendanon

Only 3 foreigners (Nalaga Abendanon Nayacalevu) have made the first backline out of 15 players. That Clermont backline has made the league+Europe finals in same season with an overwhelming majority of French players, same for SF.

Add the Montpellier halfbacks of Pelissié and FTD who were the best HB over 2013-2014, that's more choice some 6N countries have + Machenaud at Racing.
They said they picked Tales and Kockott because they play together at Castres. But they've never started the pair ever in 4 yrs?! Kockott (9 caps) is a good player but he brings nothing to the party. He and Tales (18 caps) have little test experience and are no spring chickens either. They got picked but have actually played very little.
Michalak is past test level. He doesn't have the pace. Dumoulin has 5 caps and never scored a try at test level?!

When you look at the list closely in the backs they've favoured Inexperience and age over experience and talent?!

In the end all they've done is effectively coach out the talent the clubs generously made available to them. Under Lagisquet who is a sack of **** they've reduced backs like Fofana to series of invididual cameos. so when I say this is a France B backs division I'm being kind.

 

[gaston le gaff]

it all comes down to FFR v LNR which is why you have muppets in charge of the French National team employed by the FFR, who incidently do not pick the team on their own, there is a selection panel who add their 2 penneth also. It will be worth reading Jake White's interview in the Midol on Fri as he says several times that the TOP 14 is the hardest Championship in the world,( i was present at the interview for translation purposes) also a very good insight into his thinkiging and stratagies.

 

[FrenchFan]

it all comes down to FFR v LNR which is why you have muppets in charge of the French National team employed by the FFR, who incidently do not pick the team on their own, there is a selection panel who add their 2 penneth also.

I think that selection comittee was disbanded in 2011. This was done at the request of Saint-Andre when he took the job. So he has had a free ride on selection issues.
He is the national coach that has been granted pretty much everything he asked for.

He wanted the 30-games limit agreement - that was eventually shoved down the throat of the clubs at the cost of a club-country peace. He got it.

He wanted the players for 2 weeks before the 6N. He got it.

He wanted 2mths pre-RWC training camp. He got it.

That's what the record shows. The big clubs have bent backwards for the union. What have they got to show for it? Nothing. Not one single resounding performance. No 6N. No summer test series. ZIP.

The big clubs are not going to be that forthecoming next time round. Why would they?? The 30 game limit agreement has proved useless in terms of results and has been a thorn in every club's backside.

Bonne chance to Guy Noves.......

 

[Chistera]

Stade Francais and Clermont have the best club backlines in Europe. The staff could have worked off both. It's not like it's rocket science.
For SF: Dupuy or Fillol Plisson Danty Sinzelle Camara Nayacalevu Arias
For Clermon:t Parra Lopez Fofana Rougerie Nakaitaci Nalaga Abendanon

Only 3 foreigners (Nalaga Abendanon Nayacalevu) have made the first backline out of 15 players. That Clermont backline has made the league+Europe finals in same season with an overwhelming majority of French players, same for SF.

Add the Montpellier halfbacks of Pelissié and FTD who were the best HB over 2013-2014, that's more choice some 6N countries have + Machenaud at Racing.
They said they picked Tales and Kockott because they play together at Castres. But they've never started the pair ever in 4 yrs?! Kockott (9 caps) is a good player but he brings nothing to the party. He and Tales (18 caps) have little test experience and are no spring chickens either. They got picked but have actually played very little.
Michalak is past test level. He doesn't have the pace. Dumoulin has 5 caps and never scored a try at test level?!

When you look at the list closely in the backs they've favoured Inexperience and age over experience and talent?!

In the end all they've done is effectively coach out the talent the clubs generously made available to them. Under Lagisquet who is a sack of **** they've reduced backs like Fofana to series of invididual cameos. so when I say this is a France B backs division I'm being kind.

Agree with all of it, while our pack was efficient in every aspect of the game at SdF, our backline continues to be as boring and conservative as ever, its input (eg. Huget's try, Bastareaud's runs) are only due to the individual quality of our backs, not to any sort of playing scheme of tactics. Lagisquet is the man to blame.
The Parra-Lopez-Fofana-Nakaitaci combination already gave PSA a stron core for its backline, he'd just have needed to plug in an outside centre as well as two member of the back three. Having a competetive 9-10-12 axis playing at the same club, and especially Clermont, is such a blessing that I can't fathom why PSA didn't go with it (Lopez is far superior to Tales anyway). I certainly wouldn't have minded our backline using the same combinations and playing style as Clermont...
Toulouse also has a majorily French backline: Bezy/Doussain - Flood - Mcallister / Fickou - Fritz/David - Bonneval/Clerc - Medard/Poitrenaud - Huget. That two non-French players out of 12 rotational players.
Truth is that PSA (or Lagisquet) is afraid of afraid of talent, afraid of players who could bring some flair and inventivity to our backline. That is why a spineless Yes-man like Tales (who claimed not to care about being cut from the squad), is the ideal Saint-Andre player.