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[Six Nations 2018] Round 2: Ireland vs Italy (10/02/2018)

Leonormous Boozer

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Thought I'd get the ball rolling with an XV. I definitely think resting a couple players due to our lack of depth in some places is called for.

15. Kearney
14. Earls
13. Farrell
12. Henshaw
11. Stockdale
10. Sexton
9. Murray
8. Conan
7. Leavy
6. POM
5. Ryan
4. Henderson
3. Furlong
2. Best
1. McGrath

16. Cronin 17. Healy 18. Ryan/Porter 19. Toner 20. Murphy 21. McGrath 22. Carbery 23. Larmour

I'd also be looking at getting Sexton, Murray, POM, Henderson, Furlong and Best off the pitch at around 50mins with the game won hopefully, maybe Earls too to give Larmour some exposure. Can't make up my mind between giving Ryan a last chance at proving he's fit or giving Porter chance to get up to speed before Scotland if he overtakes him.
 
Italy to win with a BP
I would say "and pigs will fly", but Dylan Hartley has to play our back row on Paddy's Day. When hell freezes over is probably a bit risky too, it's only 1°C in Leicester at the moment according to Google.
 
I have Ireland to win whilst scoring 7 try's considering England scored that many in Italy I may have been a little too generous to Italy....
 
Thought I'd get the ball rolling with an XV. I definitely think resting a couple players due to our lack of depth in some places is called for.

15. Kearney
14. Earls
13. Farrell
12. Henshaw
11. Stockdale
10. Sexton
9. Murray
8. Conan
7. Leavy
6. POM
5. Ryan
4. Henderson
3. Furlong
2. Best
1. McGrath

16. Cronin 17. Healy 18. Ryan/Porter 19. Toner 20. Murphy 21. McGrath 22. Carbery 23. Larmour

I'd also be looking at getting Sexton, Murray, POM, Henderson, Furlong and Best off the pitch at around 50mins with the game won hopefully, maybe Earls too to give Larmour some exposure. Can't make up my mind between giving Ryan a last chance at proving he's fit or giving Porter chance to get up to speed before Scotland if he overtakes him.
Resting players is all well and good, but I'd question the wisdom of starting your defensive coach at outside centre
 
As a not quite neutral, I'd like to see Conan and Larmour start. Looking forward to seeing more of Leavy too.
 
Well Stander was sent to media so very unlikely to be dropped.
Carbery put up to so may be in contention.
Based on last week and need for a BP.

15. Larmour
14. Earls
13. Farrell
12. Henshaw
11. Stockdale
10. Sexton
9. Murray
8. Stander
7. Leavy
6. POM
4.Ryan
5. Henderson
3. Tadgh
2. Best
1. Healy

16. Cronin
17. Kilcoyne
18. Ryan
19. Toner or Full and
20. Murphy
21. Marmion
22. Carbery
23. McFadden

Or alternatively
11. Larmour
15. Carbery
23. Stockdale
22. Scannell.

I don't buy all this about Kearney been the glue of defence and simply put there was no proof of that vs France. Bubba defensive blunder that resulted in try.

Hopefully try be a bit more innovative
 
Chris Farrell

Cheers. Don't know much about him to be honest, assume he's Leinster if he's any good...

Shout out to the Irish, are we likely to see any major change in personnel and/or tactics to go for the bonus point in this one? Or will Schmidt trust the systems?
 
Cheers. Don't know much about him to be honest, assume he's Leinster if he's any good...

Shout out to the Irish, are we likely to see any major change in personnel and/or tactics to go for the bonus point in this one? Or will Schmidt trust the systems?
Plays with Munster. Product of Ulster.

I'm sure we will keep to same system but get BP. As we will have much more ball and gaps will appear
 
Pulled this from the France game thread.
Seems Larmour Carbery Toner Murphy and John Ryan will start this one.
Would be happy to see this happen. If Ireland are to develop their strength in depth, they must rotate. Jordan Larmour and Joey Carbery in particular would be brave calls in a 6 Nations game but they may be relied upon in the World Cup so they need games.

While I'd select Andrew Porter ahead of John Ryan due to his potential, it still makes sense to give a tighthead other than Tadhg Furlong a start.

Looking further ahead at developing depth, I'd assume this trend will continue if muff's list is correct. Could see Chris Farrell start a game later in the tournament.
 
Pretty happy with some changes, but that said, not sure it means much. I mean Gilroy's last game with Ireland was against Italy where he scored three tries.
 
Pulled this from the France game thread.

Would be happy to see this happen. If Ireland are to develop their strength in depth, they must rotate. Jordan Larmour and Joey Carbery in particular would be brave calls in a 6 Nations game but they may be relied upon in the World Cup so they need games.

While I'd select Andrew Porter ahead of John Ryan due to his potential, it still makes sense to give a tighthead other than Tadhg Furlong a start.

Looking further ahead at developing depth, I'd assume this trend will continue if muff's list is correct. Could see Chris Farrell start a game later in the tournament.
Yes I think it's a mixture of needing to develop while also resting guys ahead of bigger games. And while you say Carbery and Larmour are big calls. They are in one way but in another. Rob Kearney I think is past it. But regardless of my opinion he has an iffy injury record and now we have very little experience behind him now that Zebo is deemed unavailable. And Sexton can pick up an injury so Schmidt has obviously decided Carbery is number 2 so has to be given time. Whatever about RWC, these are an injury away from playing in Twickenham or vs Wales.

But yeah those are the hints that seem to be coming from the pressers
 
Going to do a little depth and cap chart because I have an idea of what I want the experience profile to be for 2019 and I'll be able to analyse it when i see this. I'm going to grade the players 1-4 with 1 being a starter, 2 being somebody in a fight for a start or a definite bench player, 3 a squad player and 4 injury cover, it may be a bit simplistic but it makes sense to me.

Fullback
Rob Kearney (1) - 79
Andrew Conway (2) - 6 mostly on the wing
Jordan Larmour (3) - 0
Joey Carbery (3) - 6, all at 10
Tiernan O'Halloran - (4) - 6

Wings
Keith Earls (1) - 63
Jacob Stockdale (2) - 5
Andrew Conway (2) - 6
Fergus McFadden (3) - 33
Jordan Larmour (3) - 0
Adam Byrne (4) - 1
Darren Sweetnam (4) - 2
Rory O'Loughlin (1) - 1

Centres
Robbie Henshaw (1) - 32
Garry Ringrose (2) - 11
Bundee Aki (2) - 3
Chris Farrell (3) - 2
Rory Scannell (4) - 3
Stuart McCloskey (4) - 2

Outside Half
Johnny Sexton (1) - 69, how fitting... oi oi
Joey Carbery (2) - 6
Ian Keatley (3) - 7
Ross Byrne (4) - 0
Paddy Jackson not considered as odds are against him ever playing rugby in Ireland again

Scrum Half
Conor Murray (1) - 60
Luke McGrath (2) - 6
Kieron Marmion (3) - 18
John Cooney (4) - 0

Number 8
CJ Stander (1) - 19
Jamie Heaslip (1/2) - 95
Jack Conan (3) - 5
Max Deegan (4) - 0

Flankers
Sean O'Brien (1) - 51
Peter O'Mahoney (1) - 43
Josh Van der Flier (2/3) - 10
Dan Leavy (2/3) - 5
Rhys Ruddock (2/3) - 19
Tommy O'Donnell - (4) - 12
Jordi Murphy (4) - 18
Jack O'Donoghue (4) - 2
Sean Reidy (4) - 2

Locks
Iain Henderson (1) - 35
James Ryan (1) - 5
Devin Toner (2) - 54
Tadhg Beirne (3) - 0
Ultan Dillane (3/4) - 11
Quinn Roux (3/4) - 3

Tighthead Props
Tadhg Furlong (1) - 20
John Ryan (2) - 12
Andrew Porter (3) - 3
Finlay Bealham (4) - 7
Marty Moore (4) - 10

Hooker
Rory Best (1) - 107
Niall Scannell (2) - 7
Sean Cronin (3) - 57
Rob Herring (4) - 3
James Tracy (4) - 6

Loosehead Props
Cian Healy (1) - 74
Jack McGrath (2) - 43
Dave Kilcoyne (3) - 22
James Cronin (4) - 3

Based on nothing but my own observations I think the average player is confident and comfortable enough to play consistently at a high international class level at 30 caps, a solid if slightly risky starting option between 20-29, adept as a starter between 10-19 and a solid sub option between 5-9. With the exception of Johnny Sexton who we would be unable to beat England or NZ without and Conor Murray, Tadhg Furlong and Iain Henderson who I believe we could win one game but not two in a row against either of the aforementioned sides we have no other irreplaceable players. Of those I think Luke McGrath, Andrew Porter and James Ryan could get to a level that that is not the case with a bit of luck and the right amount of exposure. With 18 tests left I think Joe should be aiming to get 85% of his players into or exceeding the cap range that I have set out for each grade for the RWC, its very possible.

It has almost been achieved for flankers, the injury profiles of the Leinster trio in grade 2/3 has been slowing down but I believe Dan Leavy is good enough to be at a grade 1 level without 30 caps and VdF will likely hit 20 caps in the RWC group stages. I'd rate this area as an A.

It has already been exceeded at loosehead. A.

Tighthead looks certain to reach this range, the only question being whether or not to back Ryan over Porter. There's wiggle room here because I believe Porter has the potential to be a solid grade 2 player while in the grade 3 cap range. A

Number 8 depends on the return to fitness of Jamie Heaslip, with Jamie its an A but without him Conan is light on caps while Deegan needs exposure too, Stander's attrition somewhat makes up for the lack of experience. B.

Hooker - Depends on Rory Best, a decision on him making the RWC must be made after this tournament, strong 2, 3 and 4 options but Scannell could be a starter while in the grade 2 cap range and might be a weakness in potential late stages of an RWC. B.

Lock - James Ryan's ability again makes up for lack of caps, Beirne might be going in a little on the inexperienced side. B

Scrum Half - McGrath needs more minutes and trust, otherwise solid. B

Wings - Stockdale, Conway and Larmour need caps, Stockdale and Larmour are good enough to be better than their range would suggest but we are reliant on their emergence in the next 18 months. C.

Fullback - See Wings, subtract Stockdale. C.

Centre - While I believe Ringrose to already be a grade 1 standard player and Aki a grade 2 despite low caps, this is still weak as another grade 2 must emerge from one of the three others, sever lack of depth without much room for rotation without losing too much in the interim. D

Outside Half - Johnny goes down and we're limited to a semi at best, Carbery needs years to reach is level so that won't happen and Keatley and Byrne need caps too. Johnny's excellence has hampered depth here to the point where his potential unavailability stops this side from being world class while also not allowing rotation as players elsewhere will become better playing with him. D.

Obviously not an exact science and it doesn't account for special Larmour, Ryan and Ringrose type talents and isn't as strict in less specialist positions but it shows the places that need a lot of rotation and where it can be achieved and where we'll just have to rely on luck keeping the grade 1 players fit come RWC time. Rotate to **** in the back three outside France, England and Wales games while getting minutes for hookers, scrum halves and locks off the bench and in tier 2 clashes. If those selection rumours are true Schmidt seems think something similar, Niall Scannell's and Andrew Conway's injury are ill timed. It also shows whats required to displace guys like POM and Kearney who are older guys seen as weaker links in the starting XV, the talent is there but those young guys have to earn their minutes and prove their superior value which is no easy task against that caliber of player.
 
Must say Al
Going to do a little depth and cap chart because I have an idea of what I want the experience profile to be for 2019 and I'll be able to analyse it when i see this. I'm going to grade the players 1-4 with 1 being a starter, 2 being somebody in a fight for a start or a definite bench player, 3 a squad player and 4 injury cover, it may be a bit simplistic but it makes sense to me.

Fullback
Rob Kearney (1) - 79
Andrew Conway (2) - 6 mostly on the wing
Jordan Larmour (3) - 0
Joey Carbery (3) - 6, all at 10
Tiernan O'Halloran - (4) - 6

Wings
Keith Earls (1) - 63
Jacob Stockdale (2) - 5
Andrew Conway (2) - 6
Fergus McFadden (3) - 33
Jordan Larmour (3) - 0
Adam Byrne (4) - 1
Darren Sweetnam (4) - 2
Rory O'Loughlin (1) - 1

Centres
Robbie Henshaw (1) - 32
Garry Ringrose (2) - 11
Bundee Aki (2) - 3
Chris Farrell (3) - 2
Rory Scannell (4) - 3
Stuart McCloskey (4) - 2

Outside Half
Johnny Sexton (1) - 69, how fitting... oi oi
Joey Carbery (2) - 6
Ian Keatley (3) - 7
Ross Byrne (4) - 0
Paddy Jackson not considered as odds are against him ever playing rugby in Ireland again

Scrum Half
Conor Murray (1) - 60
Luke McGrath (2) - 6
Kieron Marmion (3) - 18
John Cooney (4) - 0

Number 8
CJ Stander (1) - 19
Jamie Heaslip (1/2) - 95
Jack Conan (3) - 5
Max Deegan (4) - 0

Flankers
Sean O'Brien (1) - 51
Peter O'Mahoney (1) - 43
Josh Van der Flier (2/3) - 10
Dan Leavy (2/3) - 5
Rhys Ruddock (2/3) - 19
Tommy O'Donnell - (4) - 12
Jordi Murphy (4) - 18
Jack O'Donoghue (4) - 2
Sean Reidy (4) - 2

Locks
Iain Henderson (1) - 35
James Ryan (1) - 5
Devin Toner (2) - 54
Tadhg Beirne (3) - 0
Ultan Dillane (3/4) - 11
Quinn Roux (3/4) - 3

Tighthead Props
Tadhg Furlong (1) - 20
John Ryan (2) - 12
Andrew Porter (3) - 3
Finlay Bealham (4) - 7
Marty Moore (4) - 10

Hooker
Rory Best (1) - 107
Niall Scannell (2) - 7
Sean Cronin (3) - 57
Rob Herring (4) - 3
James Tracy (4) - 6

Loosehead Props
Cian Healy (1) - 74
Jack McGrath (2) - 43
Dave Kilcoyne (3) - 22
James Cronin (4) - 3

Based on nothing but my own observations I think the average player is confident and comfortable enough to play consistently at a high international class level at 30 caps, a solid if slightly risky starting option between 20-29, adept as a starter between 10-19 and a solid sub option between 5-9. With the exception of Johnny Sexton who we would be unable to beat England or NZ without and Conor Murray, Tadhg Furlong and Iain Henderson who I believe we could win one game but not two in a row against either of the aforementioned sides we have no other irreplaceable players. Of those I think Luke McGrath, Andrew Porter and James Ryan could get to a level that that is not the case with a bit of luck and the right amount of exposure. With 18 tests left I think Joe should be aiming to get 85% of his players into or exceeding the cap range that I have set out for each grade for the RWC, its very possible.

It has almost been achieved for flankers, the injury profiles of the Leinster trio in grade 2/3 has been slowing down but I believe Dan Leavy is good enough to be at a grade 1 level without 30 caps and VdF will likely hit 20 caps in the RWC group stages. I'd rate this area as an A.

It has already been exceeded at loosehead. A.

Tighthead looks certain to reach this range, the only question being whether or not to back Ryan over Porter. There's wiggle room here because I believe Porter has the potential to be a solid grade 2 player while in the grade 3 cap range. A

Number 8 depends on the return to fitness of Jamie Heaslip, with Jamie its an A but without him Conan is light on caps while Deegan needs exposure too, Stander's attrition somewhat makes up for the lack of experience. B.

Hooker - Depends on Rory Best, a decision on him making the RWC must be made after this tournament, strong 2, 3 and 4 options but Scannell could be a starter while in the grade 2 cap range and might be a weakness in potential late stages of an RWC. B.

Lock - James Ryan's ability again makes up for lack of caps, Beirne might be going in a little on the inexperienced side. B

Scrum Half - McGrath needs more minutes and trust, otherwise solid. B

Wings - Stockdale, Conway and Larmour need caps, Stockdale and Larmour are good enough to be better than their range would suggest but we are reliant on their emergence in the next 18 months. C.

Fullback - See Wings, subtract Stockdale. C.

Centre - While I believe Ringrose to already be a grade 1 standard player and Aki a grade 2 despite low caps, this is still weak as another grade 2 must emerge from one of the three others, sever lack of depth without much room for rotation without losing too much in the interim. D

Outside Half - Johnny goes down and we're limited to a semi at best, Carbery needs years to reach is level so that won't happen and Keatley and Byrne need caps too. Johnny's excellence has hampered depth here to the point where his potential unavailability stops this side from being world class while also not allowing rotation as players elsewhere will become better playing with him. D.

Obviously not an exact science and it doesn't account for special Larmour, Ryan and Ringrose type talents and isn't as strict in less specialist positions but it shows the places that need a lot of rotation and where it can be achieved and where we'll just have to rely on luck keeping the grade 1 players fit come RWC time. Rotate to **** in the back three outside France, England and Wales games while getting minutes for hookers, scrum halves and locks off the bench and in tier 2 clashes. If those selection rumours are true Schmidt seems think something similar, Niall Scannell's and Andrew Conway's injury are ill timed. It also shows whats required to displace guys like POM and Kearney who are older guys seen as weaker links in the starting XV, the talent is there but those young guys have to earn their minutes and prove their superior value which is no easy task against that caliber of player.
Must say Alpha. Good post.
 
Rumoured 23:

1. Jack McGrath

2. Rory Best

3. Tadhg Furlong

4. Devin Toner

5. Iain Henderson

6. Peter O' Mahony

7. Dan Leavy

8. Jack Conan

9. Conor Murray

10. Jonathan Sexton

11. Jacob Stockdale

12. Bundee Aki

13. Robbie Henshaw

14. Keith Earls

15. Rob Kearney

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin

17. Cian Healy

18. Andrew Porter

19. Ultan Dillane

20. CJ Stander

21. Kieran Marmion

22. Joey Carbery

23. Jordan Larmour
 
What a sexy bench. Very athletic. There is going to be carnage when Italy are tired and these guys are unleashed.
 
Muffs bench could seriously make **** of Italy if given a a shot. I want to see Sexton ideally just 50 minutes and Murray not long after.
 
Ireland (v Italy):
15. Rob Kearney
14. Keith Earls
13. Robbie Henshaw
12. Bundee Aki
11. Jacob Stockdale
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Conor Murray

1. Jack McGrath
2. Rory Best (captain)
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. Iain Henderson
5. Devin Toner
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Dan Leavy
8. Jack Conan

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin
17. Cian Healy
18. Andrew Porter
19. Quinn Roux
20. CJ Stander
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Joey Carbery
23. Jordan Larmour.

Yay it's Quinn Roux
 

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