[RWC2023 SF2] England vs South Africa (21/10/2023)

[Mr Ruggleby]

So I know we all think England are up the creek without a paddle for this one, and that's a pretty fair assessment. SA looked on top form at the weekend, and I don't think a single English player would currently grace their squad (if you catch my meaning), so what is poor old SB to do?

For me, I think it has to be an all out kicking extravaganza from England. We're not fast enough to go around, or strong enough to go through, so let's go over. It's seemed to be working for the French and gets around the Boks rush defence. Lots of chips and 50/22s. Keep them back, play the percentages. If in the 22, with 5 phases and no movement, drop goal the thing and reset. Don't give SA any chance to turn us over or win a pen. This sort of game would sort Ford a lot more, but we all know Faz is starting at 10. I wonder whether the back will look like this:

9.mitchell
10. Farrell
11. Daly (60 meter boot may come in handy)
12. Manu
13. Lawrence (max out on bulk and D in centres)
14. May
15. Steward (solid under the high balls)

Assuming 5/3 split Ford, Marchant, Smith

Not sure what the best thing to do in the forwards is. I would argue Earl, Underwood, Curry. Mobile, good tacklers, max chances of turnovers, but in reality I guess we need Laws in that back row, unless we fancy having in the 2nd row with Itoje (I know people hate this idea). I'd like to see Ludlum on the bench. Think he brings some real attacking threat when he comes on. Much more than Billy V.

I just hope the lads give it 100% , fight for everything, and make good account of themselves. All it takes sometimes is a moment of brilliance, an unlucky Red, or a bounce of the ball, and fortunes can change.

Some bold selection calls here!

I don't think you can drop Marchant after his performances to date and given he is a better defender than both Lawrence and Tuilagi. It would also be madness to go into a game like this with no scrum-half cover.

At flank, which Underwood did you have in mind? Rory has more experience but Tony is arguably more handsome, I'd probably agree with you and say Lawes is the safer bet, if only because the Underwoods are both in their 50s and I'd be surprised if they last more than a couple of minutes.

Fully agree on Ludlum > Billy.

 

[O’Doyle Rules]

England by 4. SA shattered from 1/4.

 

[ageingback23]

I knew

Some bold selection calls here!

I don't think you can drop Marchant after his performances to date and given he is a better defender than both Lawrence and Tuilagi. It would also be madness to go into a game like this with no scrum-half cover.

At flank, which Underwood did you have in mind? Rory has more experience but Tony is arguably more handsome, I'd probably agree with you and say Lawes is the safer bet, if only because the Underwoods are both in their 50s and I'd be surprised if they last more than a couple of minutes.

Fully agree on Ludlum > Bi

Some bold selection calls here!

I don't think you can drop Marchant after his performances to date and given he is a better defender than both Lawrence and Tuilagi. It would also be madness to go into a game like this with no scrum-half cover.

At flank, which Underwood did you have in mind? Rory has more experience but Tony is arguably more handsome, I'd probably agree with you and say Lawes is the safer bet, if only because the Underwoods are both in their 50s and I'd be surprised if they last more than a couple of minutes.

Fully agree on Ludlum > Billy.

You draw far too much attention to yourself Mr Underhill

 

[BPM]

England by 4. SA shattered from 1/4.

I doubt they're shattered. Using their bench so early felt like a risk at the time. In retrospect, it was a masterclass in striking the right balance between keeping players sharp and also giving them needed rest.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Front 5 will be crucial. First scrum "Hi Dan, remember 2019?".

Locks presumably Itoje and Chessum. Given we have Lawes as a line out option, maybe some temptation to play Martin's extra ballast? Either way the best lock by a distance will be in green.

Wouldn't it be nice if we had a 70 cap 130kg lock to call up for a game like this?

Not that I wish injury on anyone, but if Youngs could lightly damage his toenail in the next 12 hours…

 

[Geordie]

Wouldn't it be nice if we had a 70 cap 130kg lock to call up for a game like this?

Not that I wish injury on anyone, but if Youngs could lightly damage his toenail in the next 12 hours…

Is he fit?

I suspect we'll see Martin on the bench...but he hasnt really shown his game yet at this level...which is understandable as hes very young and just learning the role. He'll be a lot wiser for being at this tournament though (of what is required at this level) which should help the 6n and ongoing...

 

[ageingback23]

So, taking on board the above (and my misnaming blunders) there doesn't seem to be a lot of choice. Bot sure about the starting props but the rest is surely:

2. George
4. Itoje
5. Chessum
6. Earl
7. Laws
8. Curry
9. Mitchell
10. Farrell
11. Daly
12. Manu
13. Marchant
14. May
15. Steward

don't see the point in going 6-2 split on the bench as we won't have the power to match SA anyway so throw caution to the wind and go for Ford, Smith and Care as the backs replacement. Either they conjure some magic to see us over the line, or the games already lost by then and it won't bloody matter.

Again I'd like to Ludlum bench over Billy, maybe risk Underhill on the bench as well as the man's a beast, but other than that I'm not sure what else would make a difference?

 

[OldSchoolRugga]

Rassie already said there is no chance of underestimating England.
Am starting would be good. Maybe give Pollard a start at 10. Reinach again at 9.

This will be a slugfest, but South Africa should have enough to pull through.

 

[BrokenWing]

This will be a slugfest

I can only assume you mean SA pouring loads of salt over sluglike england.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

TOL reporting 2000 tickets still available for this match.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Safe to say France won't be very high up the list of potential hosts anytime soon

Didn't see this kind of reaction during the 2015 RWC

 

[SG59_]

Unless we witness a miracle, this will be too much for England. We're looking at a SA vs NZ final and I'm predicting NZ will lose due to their discipline.

 

[IT157]

Am is ready to go?

Would be a good game for him to play in.

 

[IT157]

England vs. South Africa. Ends up being closer that many think, but South Africa will just have too much for England. They will win by 6 points but always look like they are in control for the most part.

I actually kind of want South Africa to win because they stand a far better chance against New Zealand in the final.

Unless Argentina somehow beat New Zealand, then I'm all in on England!

 

[ageingback23]

I've suddenly figured it all out. It's like a great tapestry coming together. SB is a genius. England will deploy a combination of constant heading the ball in 22, sowing confusion amongst the SA ranks (as already deployed nicely by Marler). This confusion will enhanced by players out of position from the start, followed by a constant and unrelenting flurry of drop goals from first phase. In fact England won't run the ball at all for the first 40 minutes, leaving them fresh as daisies for the second half, where will drive home our advantage against our now tired, irritated and utterly confused foes, who will find themselves unable to regather, start in fighting and utterly fall to pieces.

We've got this in the bag

 

[Which Tyler]

Safe to say France won't be very high up the list of potential hosts anytime soon

Wasn't it the most successful RWC ever (bums on seats, viewers, £€$) before the final weekend of pool matches?
Not sure WR will particularly care that tickets have been returned by gutted fans.

 

[Yulia]

Not sure WR will particularly care that tickets have been returned by gutted fans

It's also interesting to know what was the returning policy, for example if fans got only 50%- 80% of refund... no one cares then. They can resale the tickets at a lower price and won't lose anything

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Loads of returned tickets back in 2015 when the home nations and France went out. I already got a ticket for the semi ABs v SA through the ballot and managed to get a final ticket, but had to pay top whack for it - category B which was £505 at the time, but a great seat and in line with where BB scored the winning try. Luckily it was a great final, lovely autumn sunny weather with 5 tries and that great AB team's last match together. Totally worth it for me.

 

[Becca]

I've suddenly figured it all out. It's like a great tapestry coming together. SB is a genius. England will deploy a combination of constant heading the ball in 22, sowing confusion amongst the SA ranks (as already deployed nicely by Marler). This confusion will enhanced by players out of position from the start, followed by a constant and unrelenting flurry of drop goals from first phase. In fact England won't run the ball at all for the first 40 minutes, leaving them fresh as daisies for the second half, where will drive home our advantage against our now tired, irritated and utterly confused foes, who will find themselves unable to regather, start in fighting and utterly fall to pieces.

We've got this in the bag

It might just work……..

 

[Scotty]

So we start Care Ford Faz and just go for drop goals! Cant defend against this logic!