[RWC2023 SF2] England vs South Africa (21/10/2023)

[Saintjay]

I think world rugby see Barnes / Pearce as reliable. The bunker review was meant to be an effort to reduce / monitor head contact with the whole thing just being a farce. At least with those two the show piece event is likely to be less contentious.

I'm not a barrister but the whole cluster f#ck it's been at this world cup probably played into the hands of those suing world rugby. Rather than it being evidence of progress the World Rugby hoped it would be.

 

[Zac_ETNZ]

Scotland, a Tier 1 nation had zero officials at the tournament.

Language barrier

 

[AlRums]

Language barrier

Some years ago I was at Sco v SA match at Murrayfield.

At half time I was chatting to a young South African girl sitting next to me with the thickest Afrikaans accent I'd ever heard.

I asked her if she was just visiting or was she here in the UK for a longer period working. She told me she was living and working in Newcastle.

To this day I still wonder how the Geordie and Afrikaans accents managed to allow them to understand each other.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Some years ago I was at Sco v SA match at Murrayfield.

At half time I was chatting to a young South African girl sitting next to me with the thickest Afrikaans accent I'd ever heard.

I asked her if she was just visiting or was she here in the UK for a longer period working. She told me she was living and working in Newcastle.

To this day I still wonder how the Geordie and Afrikaans accents managed to allow them to understand each other.

The wonders of sign language.

 

[Zac_ETNZ]

The wonders of sign language.

...and patience.

 

[Derpus]

I think world rugby see Barnes / Pearce as reliable. The bunker review was meant to be an effort to reduce / monitor head contact with the whole thing just being a farce. At least with those two the show piece event is likely to be less contentious.

I'm not a barrister but the whole cluster f#ck it's been at this world cup probably played into the hands of those suing world rugby. Rather than it being evidence of progress the World Rugby hoped it would be.

Seems highly unlikely it would favour a civil claim. Obviously changes depending on where you are but the broad aim of the game is to take reasonable actions to mitigate a known risk.

It doesn't have to be successful or completely mitigate the risk etc.

 

[miccloarch]

Curry ‘getting support’ after receiving threats following racial slur allegation

The England flanker was subjected to online abuse after the Mbonambi claim as World Rugby investigates an accusation against the South Africa hooker

www.theguardian.com

Disgusting but sadly not surprising after the death threats towards Wayne Barnes/his wife/his children last year that required police intervention and the cancellation of his 100th test presentation, and the threats against Reinach last week

Social media was a mistake, takes the worst people gives them anonymity and gives them easy access to message people they should have no right being in contact with

It's a double edged sword. Celebrity worship is part of what gave rise to "social" media in the first place when it went from just goofing off online with your friends to over sharing and then twerking for "clout." And that happened very quickly, almost like governments and corporations wanted it; almost like Facebook always planned to be a billion dollar company that collected and sold your data.

 

[saulan]

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Sale have said Curry's family is getting threats now as well

That is revolting. I trust its just muppets venting and not anything anyone needs to pay any mind too. I heard Reinach and his family got as well. Again, there I didn't believe the person had actual intent. Still, you don't want to hear it and the recievers can't not take it seriously. That's two in 1 tournament whereas i can't remember any in any otehr RWC. Maybe I'm just more exposed this time.

It's not really a surprise but depressing. This site can be a little microcosm that's a little more well mannered. You only have to see how SA ans have lept to any non corroborated stories as an explanation of what happened and vered to blaming Curry. Now put that though thr lens of fans that would get insta banned here.

I haven't seen much from England fans buy I hope it's like here just waiting for real facts and hoping it's a misunderstanding. The fact it hasn't been cleared up yet and the longer it goes on the more I worry it wasn't.

Having heard the audio and with the visual as context that I did feel pretty confident that it truly was just a case of meaning getting lost in translation. I'll give Curry the benefit of the doubt as well. To my ear it sounds like "wyd kant" and not the claimed "wit kant". The thing for me is the urgency in Bongi's cries, the accompanying gesture telling me he is concerned about a gap in defense on top of his character and history. He has always been a soft spoken and calm person. Very like Kolisi ITO his leadership. You just wouldn't expect that sort of abuse from someone who doesn't have at least a known history of more "acceptable" verbal abuse or just anger issues whereas Bongi has a very long career and just isn't that person. If it were Corne Krige for instance I'd not even consider anything other than intended abuse.

Again I feel bad saying it because the SA posters here are a fantastic bunch and don't want it to seem like an attack on them or all the SA fans who are perfectly reasonable.

Nah, I (and I believe others here as well) get where you're coming from.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Apparently Curry told the investigation that he'd been the victim of the same abuse from the same player in last November's match.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

RFU

www.englandrugby.com

If it comes down to he said she said then it's right not to start doling out bans, but it doesn't feel right for WR to dismiss it entirely and not do a full investigation if it's supposedly happened before too.

Hopefully can just move on from this now but no doubt social media has other ideas

 

[Reiser99]

Tbh that's possibly the worst outcome in terms of stopping the abuse as those who think Mbonambi did it will say he got away with it and those who think Curry is slandering him will say this is proof of that. It resolves nothing, but if there is no evidence then there is not much anyone can do.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Having heard the audio and with the visual as context

Well, you haven't heard the audio and visual context, that's kind of the problem here?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Suggests quite serious anger in the group about it tbh and that they don't believe it was a simple misunderstanding at all.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Suggests quite serious anger in the group about it tbh and that they don't believe it was a simple misunderstanding at all.

Kinda gives an outline of what they're suggesting happened, as well, from that last line

"Wid kant"
"Did you call me a white c**t?"
"You are a white c**t"

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

From the RFU. Tbh it doesn't sound like they're happy to let this go away. First line is important - no mention of an allegation of racially abusive behaviour, it's far more assured than that.



RFU
The RFU fully support Tom Curry in raising the racially abusive behaviour he experienced whilst playing for England against South Africa.

During the match between England and South Africa on Saturday 21st October 2023, Tom Curry reported to the referee that he has been racially abused by Mbongeni Mbonambi.

The subsequent World Rugby investigation were informed by Tom Curry that he had also been the victim of the same abuse, from the same player, in the Autumn Test 2022. World Rugby have today announced their decision not to bring charges in respect of either incident.

The RFU are deeply disappointed by the decision taken by World Rugby. The decision not to put the evidence before an Independent Disciplinary Panel has denied the disciplinary process the opportunity to hear Tom Curry's voice and to independently assess his account of these serious events, together with the other available evidence.

In their continued full support of Tom, the RFU together with the England Squad, condemn the disgusting abuse he and his family has received on social media as a result of his having had the courage to put unacceptable behaviour that has no place in society or on the rugby field, in the public eye.

Abuse of any kind is not acceptable and goes against the core values of rugby. It is important that it is safe and acceptable for everyone involved in rugby union to raise concerns, and the RFU continue to encourage everyone to report any unacceptable behaviour in the game.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

From the RFU. Tbh it doesn't sound like they're happy to let this go away. First line is important - no mention of an allegation of racially abusive behaviour, it's far more assured than that.



RFU
The RFU fully support Tom Curry in raising the racially abusive behaviour he experienced whilst playing for England against South Africa.

During the match between England and South Africa on Saturday 21st October 2023, Tom Curry reported to the referee that he has been racially abused by Mbongeni Mbonambi.

The subsequent World Rugby investigation were informed by Tom Curry that he had also been the victim of the same abuse, from the same player, in the Autumn Test 2022. World Rugby have today announced their decision not to bring charges in respect of either incident.

The RFU are deeply disappointed by the decision taken by World Rugby. The decision not to put the evidence before an Independent Disciplinary Panel has denied the disciplinary process the opportunity to hear Tom Curry's voice and to independently assess his account of these serious events, together with the other available evidence.

In their continued full support of Tom, the RFU together with the England Squad, condemn the disgusting abuse he and his family has received on social media as a result of his having had the courage to put unacceptable behaviour that has no place in society or on the rugby field, in the public eye.

Abuse of any kind is not acceptable and goes against the core values of rugby. It is important that it is safe and acceptable for everyone involved in rugby union to raise concerns, and the RFU continue to encourage everyone to report any unacceptable behaviour in the game.

In diplomatic terms that's pretty strong language. Can the RFU appeal the decision?

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

In diplomatic terms that's pretty strong language. Can the RFU appeal the decision?

Is it one for CAS?

 

[Jer1cho]

From the RFU. Tbh it doesn't sound like they're happy to let this go away. First line is important - no mention of an allegation of racially abusive behaviour, it's far more assured than that.



RFU
The RFU fully support Tom Curry in raising the racially abusive behaviour he experienced whilst playing for England against South Africa.

During the match between England and South Africa on Saturday 21st October 2023, Tom Curry reported to the referee that he has been racially abused by Mbongeni Mbonambi.

The subsequent World Rugby investigation were informed by Tom Curry that he had also been the victim of the same abuse, from the same player, in the Autumn Test 2022. World Rugby have today announced their decision not to bring charges in respect of either incident.

The RFU are deeply disappointed by the decision taken by World Rugby. The decision not to put the evidence before an Independent Disciplinary Panel has denied the disciplinary process the opportunity to hear Tom Curry's voice and to independently assess his account of these serious events, together with the other available evidence.

In their continued full support of Tom, the RFU together with the England Squad, condemn the disgusting abuse he and his family has received on social media as a result of his having had the courage to put unacceptable behaviour that has no place in society or on the rugby field, in the public eye.

Abuse of any kind is not acceptable and goes against the core values of rugby. It is important that it is safe and acceptable for everyone involved in rugby union to raise concerns, and the RFU continue to encourage everyone to report any unacceptable behaviour in the game.

We all know in this day and age you are guilty until proven innocent. They must have some pretty good lawyers to put a statement out like that.