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[RWC2019][The Final] England vs. South Africa (02/11/2019)

Jer1cho said:
I reckon Hatchiva Dayimani is the next big thing for us at 8. Duane was very much a replacement for Danie Rossouw, just better at the breakdown. Don't think we will find a battering ram quite the same again though. Also despite the haters I was a big fan of Spies. He had his moments, but when he was on, boy oh boy was he on.
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Spies was never quite the same after his pre-RWC 2007 health issues, but when on form that guy was amazing. Strength and speed with no equal.
 
Just a couple of things...

Why does the rest of the world hate England so much?... It's the damn media not the fans! English media are compelled to write/screen/Blog/Vlog what they think the English fans want to see and hear so they deliver disproportionately positive messages about how good English teams are and how they are going to smash the rest of the world. It doesn't matter whether it's rugby, cricket, football (soccer), tennis; you name it, the media 'big' England up as the greatest. Fans who have actually played the game, and rugby in particular know that you can come out and have the game of your life one week - and you are complete rubbish the next. That's sport, even at a professional level.

Where do England go from here? Are there lessons to be learnt from the defeat or do they continue to carry on what has been a successful modus operandi up to now? My fear is that teams will now know that England can be out-muscled up-front and whilst the likes of Itoje, Curry, and Underhill are arguably up there with the best in the world at what they do, bulldozing counter-rucking will just drive them off the ball the way the South Africans did it to them on Saturday. Without muscle up-front you cannot hope to stay over the ball to pinch it.
 
Jer1cho said:
I reckon Hatchiva Dayimani is the next big thing for us at 8. Duane was very much a replacement for Danie Rossouw, just better at the breakdown. Don't think we will find a battering ram quite the same again though. Also despite the haters I was a big fan of Spies. He had his moments, but when he was on, boy oh boy was he on.
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What about this guy:

 
Whats the feelings about Juarno Augustus?

I know he has suffered from injuries but is he still highly rated as he was after that JRWC?
 
TRF_heineken said:
What about this guy:

Click to expand...


Yeah he is an absolute beast. Hopefully he makes the step up. So many guys look amazing at school level then get all their flair coached out of them. I remember seeing EW Viljoen at 15 for Grey and I thought he was phenomenal. One of the best I had ever seen at that level. Then he was an absolute no show for the Stormers.
 
Andrew Spreadbury said:
Just a couple of things...

Why does the rest of the world hate England so much?... It's the damn media not the fans! English media are compelled to write/screen/Blog/Vlog what they think the English fans want to see and hear so they deliver disproportionately positive messages about how good English teams are and how they are going to smash the rest of the world. It doesn't matter whether it's rugby, cricket, football (soccer), tennis; you name it, the media 'big' England up as the greatest. Fans who have actually played the game, and rugby in particular know that you can come out and have the game of your life one week - and you are complete rubbish the next. That's sport, even at a professional level.

Where do England go from here? Are there lessons to be learnt from the defeat or do they continue to carry on what has been a successful modus operandi up to now? My fear is that teams will now know that England can be out-muscled up-front and whilst the likes of Itoje, Curry, and Underhill are arguably up there with the best in the world at what they do, bulldozing counter-rucking will just drive them off the ball the way the South Africans did it to them on Saturday. Without muscle up-front you cannot hope to stay over the ball to pinch it.
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Nah, it's not the media.

Owen Farrell is not well liked in SA. And a lot of that has to do with what happens on the field. Regardless of what the media writes about him or anyone else for that matter.

What makes us despise England more is that a lot of their fans have the opinion that players in certain positions are way better than the players of SA in that same position. And whenever that comparison is made that for example Itoje is better than Lood, then that ****** a lot of people off. First because it's Lood, and he's one of the most likeable guys you'll ever meet regardless of his rugby form, and second, because the comparison should never have been made in the first place.

If only you could have seen the amount of photos/memes/messages of how the people dislike Farrell in SA, i think it will give a lot of the english posters on here a fright.
 
Jer1cho said:
Yeah he is an absolute beast. Hopefully he makes the step up. So many guys look amazing at school level then get all their flair coached out of them. I remember seeing EW Viljoen at 15 for Grey and I thought he was phenomenal. One of the best I had ever seen at that level. Then he was an absolute no show for the Stormers.
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Speaking of which I meet Ew in Leicester the other week.
Surprisingly big guy.
 
It's pretty understandable why the rest of the world generally hates England.

1. Our History/politics, let's be real the fans who don't dislike England generally tend to have either beaten us in a war or never really fought with us/had us in their country.
2. Because we are very good at a lot of sports and because we invented sports/turned them into organised sports for the first time, a lot of English fans do use that as a way to trump people's arguments.

Also not gonna lie England has a lot of smug pricks supporters, (All Nations do but because of our rugby population we have more).

and finally because we do have success on the world stage it means that people can't do the whole yeh but what have you won thing too us when we do get overconfident, like can be used for the other Home nations.

I think if USA was bigger in Rugby like they would focus on it more than American Football for example then they would be the team every one hates though.
 
Tigs Man said:
It's pretty understandable why the rest of the world generally hates England.

1. Our History/politics, let's be real the fans who don't dislike England generally tend to have either beaten us in a war or never really fought with us/had us in their country.
2. Because we are very good at a lot of sports and because we invented sports/turned them into organised sports for the first time, a lot of English fans do use that as a way to trump people's arguments.

Also not gonna lie England has a lot of smug pricks supporters, (All Nations do but because of our rugby population we have more).

and finally because we do have success on the world stage it means that people can't do the whole yeh but what have you won thing too us when we do get overconfident, like can be used for the other Home nations.

I think if USA was bigger in Rugby like they would focus on it more than American Football for example then they would be the team every one hates though.
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You forgot about Brexit.

How an indecision on one thing can **** off so many people...
 
I know quite a few people who can't stand England sports. Generally speaking they are my 2nd team, being half English with an entire half of my family from there. I support England against every other nation apart from us, and my beloved football team where my family hails from (Swindon Town - cue the laughs) is very dear to my heart. Have always hated Australia far more (especially in cricket). Unfortunately for England the fans and the media often add feul to the fire whenever a team of theirs gets the sniff.

Generally in all of SA though, Im pretty confident in saying we dislike NZ (Apart from Cape Town lol) and Australia far more. If England had played anybody else in the final I would have supported them. I'm not one of those 'hemispherists' lol.

Course this is all just my personal take and opinion before the other SH teams come give me a bashing lol.
 
TRF_heineken said:
You forgot about Brexit.

How an indecision on one thing can **** off so many people...
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TBF it's ****** off around half our population too.

But before the there was Iraq

Then before that was probably Northern Ireland


It's not new...
 
Old Hooker said:
In my book he's not even a shoe in for the team
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Really? I'd say him and James Ryan are pretty much nailed on - no one else in B&I is on their level.
Though I suppose there's the Gatland effect, Jake Ballsack will probably start.




TRF_heineken said:
What makes us despise England more is that a lot of their fans have the opinion that players in certain positions are way better than the players of SA in that same position. And whenever that comparison is made that for example Itoje is better than Lood, then that ****** a lot of people off. First because it's Lood, and he's one of the most likeable guys you'll ever meet regardless of his rugby form, and second, because the comparison should never have been made in the first place.
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Claiming one player is better than another is not at attack on someone's character - getting ****** off at an entire country because of them rating someone above someone else is pretty petty.
Itoje is one of the best locks in the world and was really really good vs All Blacks - of course people are going to rate him highly going into the following game.
 
James Ryan is overrated and shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as greats such as LdJ, EE, MI and Calum Green

Come at me Irish posters.
 
For me NZ is still fine just hate losing to the All Black but otherwise I don't mind them, the english and Aussies is another story I can't stand them and this is due to some arrogant fans and ofcourse it is wrong of me to hate on a nation just because of a few people from that nation, but that just is how it is for now .. funny thing is ... my father in law is a Australian XD

Jer1cho said:
I know quite a few people who can't stand England sports. Generally speaking they are my 2nd team, being half English with an entire half of my family from there. I support England against every other nation apart from us, and my beloved football team where my family hails from (Swindon Town - cue the laughs) is very dear to my heart. Have always hated Australia far more (especially in cricket). Unfortunately for England the fans and the media often add feul to the fire whenever a team of theirs gets the sniff.

Generally in all of SA though, Im pretty confident in saying we dislike NZ (Apart from Cape Town lol) and Australia far more. If England had played anybody else in the final I would have supported them. I'm not one of those 'hemispherists' lol.

Course this is all just my personal take and opinion before the other SH teams come give me a bashing lol.
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Here's a question did England make a mistake in not just trying to focus Itoje at 6? say if England and Sarries both focused on him playing their since after U20's?
Looking at PsdT and how well he is playing there.

and also should Kpoku maybe look at trying to be a flanker?
 
Tigs Man said:
Here's a question did England make a mistake in not just trying to focus Itoje at 6? say if England and Sarries both focused on him playing their since after U20's?
Looking at PsdT and how well he is playing there.

and also should Kpoku maybe look at trying to be a flanker?
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Before you have this discussion, please go and look at 2015 when PSDT started to play at 7, and look at how out of his depth he was. His selection at 7 was one of the reasons why we lost to Japan back in 2015.

It took a lot of training and changes to get him where he is today, do you really want to take that gamble with Itoje who is doing a great job at lock?
 
TRF_heineken said:
Before you have this discussion, please go and look at 2015 when PSDT started to play at 7, and look at how out of his depth he was. His selection at 7 was one of the reasons why we lost to Japan back in 2015.

It took a lot of training and changes to get him where he is today, do you really want to take that gamble with Itoje who is doing a great job at lock?
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Hence why I said not playing him more then (4 years ago Maro was 21) as opposed to playing him now.
It's too late for the move now IMO.
Especially with flankers being a issue at the time, we had lots of decent ones not many stand outs.

Just wondering out loud really he is a great lock so the point is prob mute.
 

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