RWC Quarter Final: England - France (08-10-2011, 20:30)

[smb64]

Only just got back from work and the 3 minute highlight video on ITV.com doesent really tell me much. Wanted to get your opinions - Was our perfromance as bad as it sounds? And was Jonny's performance as bad as it sounds?

 

[j-dawg]

I understand wanting to develop the new guys - It has to be done - but if some of the oldies are playing well why not let them continue? For example Shaw, in my opinion, could vouch for being the form lock of the England side. Made much more of an impact than any of the others wether he was starting or coming off the bench. The lions tour will be coming around, and I wouldn't be suprised if Shaw continues to defy his years, even if its for the midweek team.

Haskell needs to be considered an 8 for England. So much better than Easter. I am actually bewildered that Jonno dropped Haskell to the bench. NO basis for it.

Also how when Sheridan put in one average performance against Argentina (after a stormer against Ireland) everyone was calling for him to be dropped in place of Stevens. Hows that workin' out for ya?

 

[donmcdazzle]

Only just got back from work and the 3 minute highlight video on ITV.com doesent really tell me much. Wanted to get your opinions - Was our perfromance as bad as it sounds? And was Jonny's performance as bad as it sounds?

Don't think Wilko was that bad. Flood was worse.

 

[j-dawg]

Don't think Wilko was that bad. Flood was worse.

I disagree, although Wilko wasn't as bad as some people are making out. Flood was inches away from full breaks every time but kept trying to force the offload.

 

[Thingimubob]

Well...I warned my flatmate that this was likely to happen... his exact words were 'ah France wont be too much trouble for us, they lost to Tonga!' Nothing is more dangerous that a French side that is has been and is expected to be **** imo, can never predict which France will turn up! Didn't manage to get up for this match (or the Wales v Ireland one either) so gonna reserve any proper judgement and predictions for the semis till I've watched both!
Well done France anyway!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Haskell needs to be considered an 8 for England. So much better than Easter. I am actually bewildered that Jonno dropped Haskell to the bench. NO basis for it.

Back-row should have been Haskell/Wood/Waldrom with Croft on the bench

 

[dullonien]

Flood looked much better than Wilko when he moved to 10. It's just by that point, England were chasing the game, and Flood had to try everything to get the brekthrough, which resulted in him forcing things a little, hence a few crazy offloads etc.

As for Shaw j-dawg. This is it I'm afraid. He's done amazingly well to be still playing at the highest level at 38, but he's just too damn old. England must turn to the future, and it's not as if there's a shortage of players to choose from. Shaw will never make the next Lions tour imo.

Didn't manage to get up for this match (or the Wales v Ireland one either) so gonna reserve any proper judgement and predictions for the semis till I've watched both!

Shame on you!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I wouldn't be surprised the see Shaw retire now
He's yet to announce where he's off to after the WC....

 

[SelimNiai]

I wouldn't be surprised the see Shaw retire now
He's yet to announce where he's off to after the WC....

Think he's waiting for a space to become avaliable in a old folks home.

 

[j-dawg]

I wouldn't be surprised the see Shaw retire now
He's yet to announce where he's off to after the WC....

Shaw will never retire. He is omnipresent in the world of rugby.

On a serious note though he performed better than any of our other locks this world cup.

 

[Seaton]

Shaw will never retire. He is omnipresent in the world of rugby.

On a serious note though he performed better than any of our other locks this world cup.

Was it you that photoshopped/ the equivalent a picture of Shaw with Ben Kenobi?

It fitted so well. :lol:

But surely Shaw won't go on for much longer, I take it when you guys say he hasn't announced what his plans are, I assume you mean he does not have a club?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Aye, unattached at the moment - think his contract ran out and he didn't re-sign
Dai Young seems convinced that he's going back to Wasps after the WC (if he chooses to play on) - I presume that if England had won the WC he would have retired on that, but now he'll sign on till the end of the season

 

[j-dawg]

Indeed it was. And he's had plenty of offers (so I've heard) but waiting until the end of the world cup to make a decision. I guess we'll find out soon.

 

[j'nuh]

Don't think Wilko was that bad. Flood was worse.

Don't understand this. When Wilkinson played at 10, he stood too deep making it difficult for Youngs and the people outside of him. The ball turned slow and we were eventually penalised. When Flood played 10, sure his attempts at being flash didn't work and you'd hope there was a better 10 in England at this point, but at the very least he linked well with the backs. He didn't stand too far away from Youngs such that it was impossible to get over the gain line.

Also, I'm not sure if this was just me, but was anyone else wondering whether our forwards had a break to themselves in the game? So many rucks would form and there wouldn't be a forward in sight. When we didn't get over the gain line, no-one would be rushing back to provide ballast in the breakdown. Instead, they took their sweet time, happy that we were about to be turned over.

I understand wanting to develop the new guys - It has to be done - but if some of the oldies are playing well why not let them continue? For example Shaw, in my opinion, could vouch for being the form lock of the England side.

You answered your own question. The short-term benefits of playing a form 38 year old are far outweighed by the long-term benefits of bringing through youth. The same argument you make for Shaw to play could have been made to keep M. Williams ahead of Warburton. Eventually Warburton would have forced himself into the team, but he wouldn't have gotten as good as he is now as fast as he did. Playing old players with no long-term future suffocates chances to develop players. That's why he has to be dropped. (Although, 3 of 4 locks in our WC squad were over 30 and the one that wasn't was pretty poor, so I wouldn't mind holding onto Shaw as a reserve/bench player in the six nations, although I'd rather keep Palmer.)

 

[Rigo]

I´m sad

 

[McTallshort]

Fiver on Clerc 1st try and France win 17/1 cheered me up a bit, not sure why England were big favs anyway cudnt believe France were +4 even money!

wernt Ireland "favs" too?

Not that it matters, lets be honest we didnt deserve to be anywhere near the semi final, England have been bad on the pitch and poor off it and unlike the other 1/4 final exiters Ireland we didnt even manage a memorable performance. It doesnt look good for the 6 nations, it doesnt look good in terms of Lions selection in 2013 and unless we bring in a proper coach not good for 2015 either.

 

[cardassian]

Congrats France, good to see some of that French flair come out today.
Have been waiting for this performance for the whole world cup.
Condolences England.

 

[Thingimubob]

Shame on you!

In all fairness I was at my girlfriends after a night out and we only got in about 3am did set a few alarms...barely even remember switching them off

 

[04perryo]

Im going into depression for another 4 years. WHY did England lose WHY!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Back-row should have been Haskell/Wood/Waldrom with Croft on the bench

Agreed although it was disappointing to see an out of form Croft.