I think the big difference between the two teams was the line depth. France ran hard and deep and looked to create. England ran straight with little creativity and just hoped that Tuilagi would break the advantage line.
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RWC Quarter Final: England - France (08-10-2011, 20:30)
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England just passed the ball straight along the line. France looked more creative with loops and cut out passes. England are terribly predictable.
barthelemy
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Agreed. Tuilagi is great but you cant count only on one player.
lance2010
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Lets face it England didn't and lost.
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ZeFrenchy
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I actually think the game was won by the backrow. Dusautoir and Bonnaire tackled pretty much everything that moved, Harinordoquy ran the ball very well and all three managed to slow down England's game, shut down the 10 channel, stop Tuilagi after his linebreaks and even steal a few very important lineout balls. Bonnaire was MOtM in my opinion. Backrow work was so effective, that even those very annoying knock-ons at rucks didn't matter in the end.
beerholder
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From the start England expected a kicking game and played basically what they did in the group stages. France took over very easy, they played like mad men and shell shocked England from the start.
Harinordoquy man of the match, no contest.
Harinordoquy man of the match, no contest.
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Just caught Brian Moore on the radio and he raised some good points. What has Jono doen in four years to build at team for this world cup, he never looked like he knew what his best team was and when your 16 points down with only two backs on the bench one being a scrumhalf your in trouble. I got the impression he thinks Jono should go and a experienced manager brought in. He seemed very much of the good players do not make great managers brigade.
Surprised to hear that Jono leaves all the coaching to his staff, so his main role is team selection and this has been very poor.
That Jono has pretty much admitted that taking Hape was a mistake when he said ""If someone falls down the stairs and breaks a leg then he will get a game".
The team lacked leadership and the older players did not step up, Wilkinson, Moody, Tindall, Thompson have all been pretty standard if not poor.
On a good note he thinks the youger players will get better.
Surprised to hear that Jono leaves all the coaching to his staff, so his main role is team selection and this has been very poor.
That Jono has pretty much admitted that taking Hape was a mistake when he said ""If someone falls down the stairs and breaks a leg then he will get a game".
The team lacked leadership and the older players did not step up, Wilkinson, Moody, Tindall, Thompson have all been pretty standard if not poor.
On a good note he thinks the youger players will get better.
Mr.cyclopede
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Agree, France really switched off in the second, but the glint every one was waiting for (all France) or dreading (all England) finally appeared. Many technical issues not resolved, but now the team is one we are able to step up once again for Walles.
yachvili/Parra association is improving with game time in the 3 games, and Trinh-Duc entrance leaded (on purpose ?) to the switch-off. Wondering until where we try to hide our real level !!!
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Explains a lot - Rowntree, Smith et al. aren't exactly awe-inspiring
no-1-rugby-fan
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England were woeful, they came up against a rejuvenated France and they couldn't cope. Their passing and lack of application was poor and it has been a shocking World Cup, Martin Johnson is not good enough to coach England as he was found out with his pessimistic tactics today.
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Constructive as ever well done.
That is your response... Our forward pack really got some great ball for our backline and Youngs delivery was great..... *note may contain sarcasm.*
This was a team performance of being shitty, with some people deserving some praise, but that would only be Tuilagi really.
It is constructive actually. England's problem is relying on these perceived "good" players because the media say so due to ancient history. Wilkinson, Thompson & Tindall were on tour because of 2003 folklaw. Deacon was selected because of the club they ply trade for. Croft and Cole have been ****/injured for the past 12 months but on the starting sheet for no apparent other reason then their names are Croft and Cole. Those are just some examples (Don't get me started on Hape & Banahans inclusions).
Think of all the good players who didn't get a sniff. It's rotten from the coe but there are too many idiot nay do wells who will harp on about 2003 the instant you say a bad thing about "Sir Jonny". Because they only started watching rugby in 2003 or since mostly.
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Ok, so first off well done France, and congratulations to all the french fans on here, elgringoborracho, zefrenchy, aout, Mr cyclopede, enjoy the feeling! A world cup semi-final is nothing to be sniffed at, and I do think France have what it takes to cause problems for any team.
Now, England. Gingergenius I'm surprised you were not more critical of our performance. I think Johnson is in trouble. Not because, he makes insane selections, but just his stubborn rejections of common sense. How many times do we have to see that Corbisiero is a better loosehead than Stevens before we do something about it!? I don't care if Easter plies his trade at 8 and can control the ball off the back of the scrum, if he can't do anything else then he shouldn't be there. Haskell has been our best backrow forward for ages, offering some new power and go forward ball from the back, yet he gets dropped? I don't care if Moody is ferocious and throws himself about like a 'crazy horse'. We need a 7. I think we would have had a better world cup campaign with a backrow of Croft, Fourie and Haskell, not because thats the best we can do but because thats a better balance. Is Moody really our answer to Warburton, mccaw, pocock, brussow etc? Deacon played ok against Scotland but why did Shaw not get any gametime at all? Palmer always deserved to start, and lawes is great but if hes not quite hitting the mark, why resort to Deacon.
Hooker is a problematic position. I think Hartley offers a much better all-round game, as long as he has any semblance of form. I don't know where to begin with the backline. People will start announcing that wilko's england days are over but I don't see what happened today that we didint already know before. He is still failing to do the basics well, whilst Flood is attacking the opposition line and showing a way forward. The thing that exasperates me is how long mj has persevered with hape, only to lose confidence at him in precisely the worst moment. He played one of his best ever games against georgia, and didint play a single world cup minute after that. He is a 12! If you are going to use him to take up a precious spot in the 30 man squad, ****ing use him! You can't just shove other people around out of usual position. By ignoring the problem that has been wilkinson at 10 you shift the problem elsewhere and make things worse. I just cant believe that hape took up a place and then wasnt used when he was most needed(sad as it is). if you are going to try flood and wilkinson together at 12 and 10 why wait until the quarters? what was wrong with 10) flood 12) hape 13)tuilagi?
I don't know about scrum half, I still think youngs is a great hope but if he keeps spazzing about then why ignore simpson.Wigglesworth is, as teh mite would probably say, a club "journeyman" at best and not an international. ultimately you have to be picked on merit and recent eprformances and simpson was great last season for wasps.
Lastly we can't just keep ignoring deserving players who play well every week. You have to pick the best, most desering players first, and then choose your gameplan. Not, as MJ does, works out how he wants to play, and chooses the players according, hence tindall and hape in midfield for so long. On that point, johnson wasted so much time with hape and tindall together, only to change it at the critical moment! Unbelievably inept coaching. we cant just keep ignroing robshaw and JSD for example. Robshaw could rise to be as good as warburton has, but you have to give him a chance!
I think martin johnson is learning all the time, but he has to go basically, (and i'm usually one to despise knee-jerk reactions to poor performances). the management set-up is not right, and we cant keep ignoring it simply because we win games from time to time. we mostly have played poorly for a while now.we have a talneted team, we just need someone who knows how to use that.
P.s thank you tuialgi for being our best player yet again.and well done wales and france!
What really enrages me is how much spotlight we put on our sports teams(old news i know), and also how much time our rugby team gave the media. I hate reading bbc pieces in which flood says 'england to blitz france from the beginning'. You can spout as much **** as you want but it doesnt make you any more likely to actually do the deed. I don't want to constantly hear england players saying 'we've turned it around after a good team-meeting', until we actually see them do that. I honestly think the England team should be seen and not heard. We can blame the tabloids for being wankers as usual and kicking up shitstorms but ultimately all other media groups followed after that
Now, England. Gingergenius I'm surprised you were not more critical of our performance. I think Johnson is in trouble. Not because, he makes insane selections, but just his stubborn rejections of common sense. How many times do we have to see that Corbisiero is a better loosehead than Stevens before we do something about it!? I don't care if Easter plies his trade at 8 and can control the ball off the back of the scrum, if he can't do anything else then he shouldn't be there. Haskell has been our best backrow forward for ages, offering some new power and go forward ball from the back, yet he gets dropped? I don't care if Moody is ferocious and throws himself about like a 'crazy horse'. We need a 7. I think we would have had a better world cup campaign with a backrow of Croft, Fourie and Haskell, not because thats the best we can do but because thats a better balance. Is Moody really our answer to Warburton, mccaw, pocock, brussow etc? Deacon played ok against Scotland but why did Shaw not get any gametime at all? Palmer always deserved to start, and lawes is great but if hes not quite hitting the mark, why resort to Deacon.
Hooker is a problematic position. I think Hartley offers a much better all-round game, as long as he has any semblance of form. I don't know where to begin with the backline. People will start announcing that wilko's england days are over but I don't see what happened today that we didint already know before. He is still failing to do the basics well, whilst Flood is attacking the opposition line and showing a way forward. The thing that exasperates me is how long mj has persevered with hape, only to lose confidence at him in precisely the worst moment. He played one of his best ever games against georgia, and didint play a single world cup minute after that. He is a 12! If you are going to use him to take up a precious spot in the 30 man squad, ****ing use him! You can't just shove other people around out of usual position. By ignoring the problem that has been wilkinson at 10 you shift the problem elsewhere and make things worse. I just cant believe that hape took up a place and then wasnt used when he was most needed(sad as it is). if you are going to try flood and wilkinson together at 12 and 10 why wait until the quarters? what was wrong with 10) flood 12) hape 13)tuilagi?
I don't know about scrum half, I still think youngs is a great hope but if he keeps spazzing about then why ignore simpson.Wigglesworth is, as teh mite would probably say, a club "journeyman" at best and not an international. ultimately you have to be picked on merit and recent eprformances and simpson was great last season for wasps.
Lastly we can't just keep ignoring deserving players who play well every week. You have to pick the best, most desering players first, and then choose your gameplan. Not, as MJ does, works out how he wants to play, and chooses the players according, hence tindall and hape in midfield for so long. On that point, johnson wasted so much time with hape and tindall together, only to change it at the critical moment! Unbelievably inept coaching. we cant just keep ignroing robshaw and JSD for example. Robshaw could rise to be as good as warburton has, but you have to give him a chance!
I think martin johnson is learning all the time, but he has to go basically, (and i'm usually one to despise knee-jerk reactions to poor performances). the management set-up is not right, and we cant keep ignoring it simply because we win games from time to time. we mostly have played poorly for a while now.we have a talneted team, we just need someone who knows how to use that.
P.s thank you tuialgi for being our best player yet again.and well done wales and france!
What really enrages me is how much spotlight we put on our sports teams(old news i know), and also how much time our rugby team gave the media. I hate reading bbc pieces in which flood says 'england to blitz france from the beginning'. You can spout as much **** as you want but it doesnt make you any more likely to actually do the deed. I don't want to constantly hear england players saying 'we've turned it around after a good team-meeting', until we actually see them do that. I honestly think the England team should be seen and not heard. We can blame the tabloids for being wankers as usual and kicking up shitstorms but ultimately all other media groups followed after that
Taylo2
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Just got in from the game, disappointed to say the least.
We made france look 10times better than they actually were....we just couldnt do the simple things. rugby isnt a complicated sport....catching, passing and tackling all let us down. Twice we could have crossed if only we could catch.
For me only one player stood out in white and that was Manu. He lifted everyone around me when he had his paws on the pigskin.
Fair play to France though, they took their opportunites and turned us over....but Wales must be rubbing their hands with glee, what i've seen today Wales will walk into the final
We made france look 10times better than they actually were....we just couldnt do the simple things. rugby isnt a complicated sport....catching, passing and tackling all let us down. Twice we could have crossed if only we could catch.
For me only one player stood out in white and that was Manu. He lifted everyone around me when he had his paws on the pigskin.
Fair play to France though, they took their opportunites and turned us over....but Wales must be rubbing their hands with glee, what i've seen today Wales will walk into the final
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I tend to think telling people up yours is not constructive at all.
To be honest mate I think most people on here have said Wilkinson has been poor. Drop Tindall, Wilkinson, Moody and Thompson.
Who would you have taken instead?
Can't believe theres still idiots that say Wilkinson didn't deserve to be in the 30man squad. On Toulon form and coming off the bench in the Sixnations he was easily Englands 2nd best Flyhalf, that warrents him being selected for the squad. Cole had a pretty decent season btw.
Or would you not take your second best flyhalf?
He hasen't been good but he did deserve to be in that squad.
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