Rugby Championship: South Africa - New Zealand (06/10/2012)

[InsaneAsylum]

it really is an awesome looking stadium, especially the exterior facade

 

[Larksea]

Well that brought the tone of the thread down. For shame Nick. For shame.

Good ratings - I think are a very accurate reflection of the game. The only ones I would have given slightly higher ratings to would be Messam & A Smith. I actually though Messam had one of his better AB's games with ball in hand, and made a couple of really good runs in the open. Before you ask - no Larksea has not hacked my account! I agree Aaron Smith box-kicked far too much, but his passing (when he used it!) was superb all game, and was one of the reasons we had so much space to work with in the backs.

heh yeah I actually pretty much agree with those ratings and your observations, I think all the forwards basically did their jobs well, in defense in particular. There was a period in the 2nd half with like 20-25 min to go where SA had a lot of possession and basically got nowhere, after that you could see it was game over for the boks. If anyone stood out it was Read again, how modest is that guy? I think he's on track to be the best All Black #8 ever.

Carter was really good again, the AB's backline is so accurate and assured when hes on.

breakthrough performance from Hosea Gear, he's had about 12-14 tests now and I think this was his first really good performance against SA or AUS. Pretty much booked himself an EoY seat - and gives the selectors a headache. Savea just starting to look good at test level and Gear looking good as well. Maybe harsh in gear but I tend to think Savea would have done just as well maybe better - I still think he's a better option looking forward.

 

[Darwin]

heh yeah I actually pretty much agree with those ratings and your observations, I think all the forwards basically did their jobs well, in defense in particular. There was a period in the 2nd half with like 20-25 min to go where SA had a lot of possession and basically got nowhere, after that you could see it was game over for the boks. If anyone stood out it was Read again, how modest is that guy? I think he's on track to be the best All Black #8 ever.

Carter was really good again, the AB's backline is so accurate and assured when hes on.

breakthrough performance from Hosea Gear, he's had about 12-14 tests now and I think this was his first really good performance against SA or AUS. Pretty much booked himself an EoY seat - and gives the selectors a headache. Savea just starting to look good at test level and Gear looking good as well. Maybe harsh in gear but I tend to think Savea would have done just as well maybe better - I still think he's a better option looking forward.

Yep, I think over the last season Read has overtaken both McCaw and Carter as our best player. The scary thing is he still seems to be getting better! I have to say I was really impressed by Hore this match, particularly his work at the breakdown. He has been pretty quiet for the AB's this season, so it was great to see him playing his best rugby again.

On South Africa - I thought Strauss had one of his best games in the Boks jersey in the weekend, though his is still no du Plessis. I think Oosthuizen, despite his promise, showed he is not ready for test level yet. I'm sure he set a new record though by conceding 3/4 of the Boks penalties (despite only being on the field for 25 minutes!). I'm still not convinced with Bekker at test level. He was dominant in the lineout as always, but he doesn't really bring much physicality to his play. I think the Boks forward pack looks far more dangerous when they are all hitting the breakdown at full speed (e.g. the AB's test in Dunedin), and having a lock that doesn't seem capable/willing to do the dirty work in the tight is a bit of an issue (in contrast Etzebeth is a complete beast!). The loose trio was pretty good again - I still am not 100% convinced by Alberts, but he hasn't really had a poor game at test level this season.

Pienaar had some nice touches, though I still think he needs to use his (very effective) running game a bit more. Goosen looked solid while he was on, while I was actually quite impressed with Jantjies when he came on. When I first saw Jantjies a few years ago I thought he was a talented young player, but didn't think he would be a test player due to his lack of composure, but I thought he looked very composed and comfortable this match. South Africa's midfield was pretty quiet throughout the match, and there were a couple of wee defensive lapses that proved costly. Habana had a bit of a mixed game - he took his try well and made a couple of good runs, but his defense let him down a couple of times. Gear ran straight over top of him at one stage, while A Smith's try happened after he ran out of the line and missed the intercept. He seems to have been heavily criticized for this, but in fact running out of the line was his only option, as the AB's had a 4-1 overlap. His error was going for the intercept, rather than making the hit on Dan Carter which would have killed the attack. Hougaard was a bit disappointing yet again, and I'm really starting to reconsider my opinion that he is a better wing than a halfback. He hasn't been near as threatening on attack as I thought he would be, while he seems completely lost at times on defense. If he is going to stay on the wing for South Africa I think he clearly needs a full season of Super Rugby in the position to refine his wing skills, as over recent weeks he has really looked like a halfback playing on the wing! Kirchner was Kirchner - ok but I'm sure South Africa has better options.

 

[Larksea]

yeah, I don't follow the form or options in SA rugby much but when I see Kirchner all I think is "is he really the best option SA have at 15?"

I think in the NZ game we have at least 4 guys who I think are better fullbacks than he is, Andre Taylor and Robbie Robinson can't even make the AB squad and they are better fullbacks, surely there are better options for the boks. They seem to be lacking in genuine attacking threat in the backs.

 

[TRF_heineken]

yeah, I don't follow the form or options in SA rugby much but when I see Kirchner all I think is "is he really the best option SA have at 15?"

I think in the NZ game we have at least 4 guys who I think are better fullbacks than he is, Andre Taylor and Robbie Robinson can't even make the AB squad and they are better fullbacks, surely there are better options for the boks. They seem to be lacking in genuine attacking threat in the backs.

Just join Draggs en Eze on the Kirchner hate-bus. Lol.

He's not our best, but Lambie is not better than him, nor Ludick. While Eze think the grass they walk on is holy, they too have flaws just as kirchner. But one thing that kirchner does very well is the one-on-one defence when there's nobody else to help cover. That is one the best attributes a Fullback IMO should have. He's defensive orientated, whereas guys like Ludick and Lambie are more attacking orientated, but does lack a bit on the defense part. What help kirchner is the fact that he's a big strong bloke and when he joins the line, he usually goes over the advantage line.

He was one of our leading try scorers this year, which begs the question, would the other players have made a difference?

I for one am of the opinion that neither of those 3 should be our fullbacks, and that we should rather look at guys with a bit of an x-factor. Guys like Jaco Taute, Gio Aplon and Willie Le Roux comes to mind.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

 

[Darwin]

I don't think Kirchner is that bad - he is a serviceable fullback at test level, I just think there are probably better options (though I'm far from an expert on SA rugby!). The main problem I have with Kirchner is his predictability - you kick the ball to him and 9/10 he will return with a bomb. His bombs are normally pretty accurate, but as they are so predictable the opposition always knows what is going to happen when he gets the ball, and South Africa don't have any chance of counter-attacking from the back. As you say he is a big guy, and though he probably isn't the most elusive runner he actually uses his size well and gets over the advantage line when he does run.

From what I have seen of him, Ludik looks a very strong defensive player, but also seems to offer a bit more in attack than Kirchner (though obviously is untested at test level). I'm not convinced about Lambie at fullback - he has the tools to be a very good fullback, but needs much more experience in the position before he is ready to be a test fullback in my opinion. Personally I would go for Taute at fullback, as he looks to have the potential to be the most complete fullback in he country. He looks solid on defense (he is a big guy too), has a good kicking game, reads the game well, and is a threat with ball in hand.

 

[admartian]

I still don't know why Aplon was not included. Guy was nothing but threatening.

With Aplon, Lambie, Goosen, Taute, Hougaard: SA has the puzzle-pieces in the backline; it's just up to the coaches to figure out how they fit in place.

 

[cyRil]

Kirchner is dogshit.
There's my contribution!

 

[Larksea]

he's ok. someone kicks the ball his way he will catch it, he has a pretty good kick and can tackle. He's got the basics down - I just don't think I've ever seen him truly excel in an area or create anything on attack.

he's really no threat at all, in fact he's almost like safety for the all blacks, heck if the AB's are in trouble and the line is a bit off. Just kick to Kirchner, he will likely just kick it back again even if he has an overlap outside him. And the AB's will have time to get back on the grid.

comparing to dagg is a bad example but oppositions must know by now that if you kick to dagg the vast majority of the time you wont gain anything but you seriously risk losing a LOT because of his seriously huge punt or ability to counter attack

kicking to Kirchner is a safe pressure relieving play.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I still don't know why Aplon was not included. Guy was nothing but threatening.

With Aplon, Lambie, Goosen, Taute, Hougaard: SA has the puzzle-pieces in the backline; it's just up to the coaches to figure out how they fit in place.

Love all the anti-All Blacks spouting their **** again.

Not seen a yellow in a while? Is that wishful, jabby-hyperbole or just stupidity and ignorance?

32-16

What kind of hyperbole?

not going to elaborate?

 

[Draggs]

Just join Draggs en Eze on the Kirchner hate-bus. Lol.

He's not our best, but Lambie is not better than him, nor Ludick. While Eze think the grass they walk on is holy, they too have flaws just as kirchner. But one thing that kirchner does very well is the one-on-one defence when there's nobody else to help cover. That is one the best attributes a Fullback IMO should have. He's defensive orientated, whereas guys like Ludick and Lambie are more attacking orientated, but does lack a bit on the defense part. What help kirchner is the fact that he's a big strong bloke and when he joins the line, he usually goes over the advantage line.

He was one of our leading try scorers this year, which begs the question, would the other players have made a difference?

I for one am of the opinion that neither of those 3 should be our fullbacks, and that we should rather look at guys with a bit of an x-factor. Guys like Jaco Taute, Gio Aplon and Willie Le Roux comes to mind.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

"Ludick"
Fix that before Eze sees it. He'll knock you out of your shoes.

Ludik is quite a good defender, and certainly no worse than Kirchner under the highball (Try v Stormers for proof).

I'd willingly welcome le Roux, he just needs to work on his positioning. Taute needs to be given a position to stay at. Centre or fullback, pick on. (Oh, Plumtree would have a field day with this one)

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3821_8145571,00.html

Interesting. Didn't think there was much in it, personally.

 

[dasNdanger]

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3821_8145571,00.html

Interesting. Didn't think there was much in it, personally.

Just re-watched it a couple times. At first I didn't think it was much because I was watching the slow mo replay, but watching it at regular speed it does appear reckless - it's a fast hit, without any attempt to lower the player to the ground. He lifts Bekker nearly straight up then lets him drop. I think it's just fortunate that Bekker is tall enough that he wasn't totally flipped onto his head. Pretty sure a shorter player wouldn't have faired as well.


das

 

[nickdnz]

On a strange note, does anyone think Kirshner looks like Og grown up from the cartoon Mike, Lu and Og?


from http://mystoryasdancefloor.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/tv-views-mike-lu-and-og.html

 

[TRF_heineken]

On a strange note, does anyone think Kirshner looks like Og grown up from the cartoon Mike, Lu and Og?

Kirchner looks like any cartoon resembling a pre-historic caveman. With a little bit of imagination, he looks like bob from Prometheus and Bob cartoons, if he had no hair...

 

[Shaggy]

You know, I don't want to jump on the anti-Morne band wagon, but I've actually been quite impressed with Kirchner since the backs have adopted a more running style of game ... I think he's entered the back line well on attack, and he's been not too bad on defense ... not saying there's not better full backs in South Africa, just that he seems to be playing a lot better than he has previously

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Man, the internet goblins ran away with my post. To get to the point;

SA didn't play as badly as the scoreline suggests but we let ourselves down with some real sloppy defense and opportunities not taken which unfortunately is where the game is decided (points on the board).

Credit must go to NZ for some terrific defense. Our boys could learn a bit from them on how to get motivated for a 'dead rubber'; NZ just seemed more composed and hungrier at the same time. Hopefully we'll get there mentally as well as I think defense is 90% attitude.

In terms of option taking it was a bit of a step backward but one has to say that the NZ defense and 'work' at the breakdown made it a lot tougher than last week. We were also too inaccurate/rushed at times in attack.

Man, how we could have used an in form FdP and J Fourie this game. It was the type of game in which these players could have come to the fore. But its time for the youngsters to make the step up.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Man, how we could have used an in form FdP and J Fourie this game. It was the type of game in which these players could have come to the fore. But its time for the youngsters to make the step up.

It's tests like these that builds character in young guys. Our guys should take heart out of this game and accept humility in defeat. It was a very good thing IMO that there was only one change in the team that beat the aussies the previous week. It proves just how tough the international level is, and that it's a real topsy turvy affair and that preparation is of utmost importance.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

No, I agree that the younguns are getting priceless experience and consistency in selection builds a settled unit but I just think our current game still needs some development to take advantage of the strengths of our current top players is all I'm getting at in a round-about manner.

 

[smartcooky]

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3821_8145571,00.html

Interesting. Didn't think there was much in it, personally.

Given Rolland's previous form with this type of tackle, I was really surprised when the yellow card didn't come. Not even a penalty, and no word from the touchies either!

Have to say it looked worse in slo-mo than in real time.