Rugby Championship: South Africa - New Zealand (06/10/2012)

[TRF_heineken]

No, I agree that the younguns are getting priceless experience and consistency in selection builds a settled unit but I just think our current game still needs some development to take advantage of the strengths of our current top players is all I'm getting at in a round-about manner.

True. But in what other way can we test it out? HM is testing things out against the best in the business. that's the only way to know if it will work or not. The EOYT can now be used to streamline the plans and get the younguns some more caps.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Given Rolland's previous form with this type of tackle, I was really surprised when the yellow card didn't come. Not even a penalty, and no word from the touchies either!

Have to say it looked worse in slo-mo than in real time.

I just thought; 'there goes Bekker's back again' but he seemed to be alright. I think consistency asked for at least a penalty as there was clear lifting through the vertical but it didn't have any effect on the outcome of the match IMO.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

True. But in what other way can we test it out? HM is testing things out against the best in the business. that's the only way to know if it will work or not. The EOYT can now be used to streamline the plans and get the younguns some more caps.

True. Just plain experience ( just being there), time together as a team, time to get to know the structures and the resultant confidence they should get from consistent selection, familiarity with the systems and each other and clearity in what is expected of them is something we don't have at the moment and can only get through these sorts of games. Bok supporters aren't very patient though and I can point the finger at myself as well LOL.

I'm puting this year down to development and looking forward to the EoYT. TBH I don't think there are many players that should get into the squad that aren't already there so it's just a matter of further development and getting the injured guys up to speed. Maybe just Ludik in for Kirchner IMO and have a rethink of positioning of the backs; Lambie, Taute, Hougaard all out of position ATM IMO. I know injuries to F Steyn and JP Petersen forced it to some degree but I don't like playing players out of position; I'd much rather have had Hougaard on the bench for SH with Aplon coming in for Petersen and De Jongh coming in at center and have Lambie and Taute on the bench covering 10/12 in the case of Lambie and 15/13 Taute.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I just thought; 'there goes Bekker's back again' but he seemed to be alright. I think consistency asked for at least a penalty as there was clear lifting through the vertical but it didn't have any effect on the outcome of the match IMO.

But it could've. It happened in the 20th minute, when we were ahead. A yellow card and a penalty that early in the game could've made a big difference.

It looks a lot worse now on the reply, than it did live. It happened right in front of me, and nobody in the stands went "ooh" or something like that. So to me it didn't look as bad as what the replay now shows. and based on that, Rolland did it correctly...

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

He was lifted, and placed on his back, I didn't think it was bad at all really... The fact that Bekker rolled up onto his neck made it more comical than anything. You see worse falls in a soccer match

 

[Gena_ZA]

Congratulations to the All Black, no excuses and a well deserved victory
Boks are learning and were not ashamed at all
No reason to complain

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

On a strange note, does anyone think Kirshner looks like Og grown up from the cartoon Mike, Lu and Og?


from http://mystoryasdancefloor.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/tv-views-mike-lu-and-og.html

 

[dasNdanger]

Given Rolland's previous form with this type of tackle, I was really surprised when the yellow card didn't come. Not even a penalty, and no word from the touchies either!

Have to say it looked worse in slo-mo than in real time.

And I thought it looked worse in real time because you could see what sort of speed was involved in the hit and lift. Slo mo makes it look like Bekker was eased down, but he wasn't.

He was lifted, and placed on his back, I didn't think it was bad at all really... The fact that Bekker rolled up onto his neck made it more comical than anything. You see worse falls in a soccer match

He was not placed on his back, he was dropped. Or, rather, his legs slipped out of Retallick's arms as he was running off. There was no control in the tackle, imo.


das

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

He was lifted, and placed on his back, I didn't think it was bad at all really... The fact that Bekker rolled up onto his neck made it more comical than anything. You see worse falls in a soccer match

I'll have to disagree. I'm not as big as Bekker but can assure you I'd be quite sore and ****** if I was dropped like that. I think you overestimate Retalick's control in that 'tackle'. "placed on his back", LOL, now that's a stretch.

 

[dasNdanger]

On a strange note, does anyone think Kirshner looks like Og grown up from the cartoon Mike, Lu and Og?


from http://mystoryasdancefloor.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/tv-views-mike-lu-and-og.html

Close...

Closer...

Bingo!!





das

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

It didnt look that bad as i thought he landed on his back, but it was bekker who made it look worse by doing some kind of back roll onto his neck when he wasnt held.

Even the ref called out that it was ok and that they should play on.

 

[SomeOke]

All credit to the All Blacks, and congrats on the win!

I think we have to accept that at the moment we don't have the same ability in terms of players that NZ has, what we really lack are game breakers. It's not HM's fault, the reality is, at present we don't have the raw talent of people like Dagg, Carter, Read even Aaron smith and virtually any NZ winger who just open up the game and create tries out of nothing. Even the likes of Conrad Smith and Ma'a Nonu are just flawless at what they do.

Not that upset, to me the goal should be to build for the future, get our youngsters who do have the potential to grow into those types of players; the Elton's, Willie le Roux and Jordaan's and give them game time and let them develop. We are never going to be able to compete with NZ until we cultivate those types of players. Anyway it's a process and I'm not upset about not being as good as one of the finest teams to ever play the game.

 

[admartian]

A few times in that game certain SA players' priorities were going for glory plays - intercept tries. Which is largely stupid and generally doesn't work unless in the event of a major offensive miscommunication or a terrible, terrible, terrible pass. It also just puts more pressure on your defensive line.

See Habana.

A couple of times, JDV was trolling the AB line for much of the game too which allowed the inside runner to gain more ground than he should have. I'm glad the ABs don't play that way - rather them score tries off of their own ball than jeopardise their team in trying the glory play too much.

Sure the intercept try looks good, but it's too high risk against anything but minnow teams.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

All credit to the All Blacks, and congrats on the win!

I think we have to accept that at the moment we don't have the same ability in terms of players that NZ has, what we really lack are game breakers. It's not HM's fault, the reality is, at present we don't have the raw talent of people like Dagg, Carter, Read even Aaron smith and virtually any NZ winger who just open up the game and create tries out of nothing. Even the likes of Conrad Smith and Ma'a Nonu are just flawless at what they do.

Not that upset, to me the goal should be to build for the future, get our youngsters who do have the potential to grow into those types of players; the Elton's, Willie le Roux and Jordaan's and give them game time and let them develop. We are never going to be able to compete with NZ until we cultivate those types of players. Anyway it's a process and I'm not upset about not being as good as one of the finest teams to ever play the game.

Similar thoughts to Australian fans recently. As much as I hate a defeatist attitude with anything it's the way things seem to be going, 2nd place is the new 1st place in rugby as 1st place isn't up for grabs. Your points are valid SomeOke, the all blacks have such raw talent, they seem to magically create gaps and score points through those opportunities and although the boks, wallabies and argentina are good teams, the opportunities aren't as easily created.

I seem to have lost a bit of passion for the game this year, it's like when you play amatuer sport and all teams are made up of a bunch of blokes/girls who just want to have a bit of fun and keep fit after work and on weekends, then you have one team made up of former professional players/personal trainers etc. who go through the season undefeated... all you can do is wait for that season to end and hope to be runner up. I hope this doesn't come across as sour grapes because it isn't, it's just that rugby is so much more enjoyable when their is unpredictability in the result, a close game that could go either way, edge of your seat type stuff.

"bryce lawrence cheated" aside, the rwc world cup quarter final was that type of game, could have gone any way right down until the last minute and for a wallabies fan, the nervous tension and excitement followed by relief when we won, and the empty feeling, anger etc by bok fans. it's part of sport, you win some, you lose some. if the all blacks continue to beat sides convincingly the sport will be in decline. it will never be a problem in nz or sa, but here in melbourne, rugby is 4th behind afl, league and soccer in the way of football codes. it's really hard to draw crowds and grow the game when both your national and provincial teams aren't competitive.

Sydney just won an AFL premiership, you can only imagine how much that has done for the game in a league/rugby state. how many disgruntled tahs supported have gone and bought a swans membership and ditched their tahs membership?

 

[admartian]

I seem to have lost a bit of passion for the game this year, it's like when you play amatuer sport and all teams are made up of a bunch of blokes/girls who just want to have a bit of fun and keep fit after work and on weekends, then you have one team made up of former professional players/personal trainers etc. who go through the season undefeated... all you can do is wait for that season to end and hope to be runner up. I hope this doesn't come across as sour grapes because it isn't, it's just that rugby is so much more enjoyable when their is unpredictability in the result, a close game that could go either way, edge of your seat type stuff.

"bryce lawrence cheated" aside, the rwc world cup quarter final was that type of game, could have gone any way right down until the last minute and for a wallabies fan, the nervous tension and excitement followed by relief when we won, and the empty feeling, anger etc by bok fans. it's part of sport, you win some, you lose some. if the all blacks continue to beat sides convincingly the sport will be in decline. it will never be a problem in nz or sa, but here in melbourne, rugby is 4th behind afl, league and soccer in the way of football codes. it's really hard to draw crowds and grow the game when both your national and provincial teams aren't competitive.

I mean this without insulting any Australian, but would that have to do with the fact Aussies like to be front runners and lose interest at the onset that they feel they're not guaranteed at winning?

Seems to be that case forever imo.

I mean, look at the Warriors - up and down every year - and just awful awful awful this year - but yet fans kept on going. And as much as I bag our cricket team (and they're pretty bad), they're in no danger of being dissolved by NZC.

Look at the Phoenix too, fringe chance at competing for the A-League but the fans are passionate as hell. Their only threat is an owner that has trouble with creditors - but the interest is there.

So I dunno - I think Aussies IN GENERAL (in bold and underlined before someone gets carried away and doesn't read and reads into something that isn't there ) just need to be more realistic and less fairweathery-fans and support it regardless.

Dunno *shrug*.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

fair point admartian, I see where you are coming from. my opinion is that aussies in general (well at least I speak for myself) can handle losing, we can handle not being the best as long as there is a possiblity that we or another theam could win or at least that there is some sort of equality in the sport otherwise it becomes boring. if the shoe was on the other foot, it'd be the same. for instance, take cricket for example back in the hayden, langer, ponting, waugh, warne, mcgrath days.... boring. the best thing that happened to australian cricket was australia no longer being as dominant.

theway the all blacks are playing at the moment and for the last 10 years, no one can or will beat them. is there any other team as dominant in world sport?

 

[smartcooky]

A few times in that game certain SA players' priorities were going for glory plays - intercept tries. Which is largely stupid and generally doesn't work unless in the event of a major offensive miscommunication or a terrible, terrible, terrible pass. It also just puts more pressure on your defensive line.

See Habana.

A couple of times, JDV was trolling the AB line for much of the game too which allowed the inside runner to gain more ground than he should have. I'm glad the ABs don't play that way - rather them score tries off of their own ball than jeopardise their team in trying the glory play too much.

Sure the intercept try looks good, but it's too high risk against anything but minnow teams.

Did you see that incident just after a line-out (I think it might have been in the lead up to one of the second half tries), where a South African came up into the AB line, possibly looking for an intercept, and the passer waited until he overran, then passed the ball behind him. I thought that was a bit cheeky!!

 

[admartian]

fair point admartian, I see where you are coming from. my opinion is that aussies in general (well at least I speak for myself) can handle losing, we can handle not being the best as long as there is a possiblity that we or another theam could win or at least that there is some sort of equality in the sport otherwise it becomes boring. if the shoe was on the other foot, it'd be the same. for instance, take cricket for example back in the hayden, langer, ponting, waugh, warne, mcgrath days.... boring. the best thing that happened to australian cricket was australia no longer being as dominant.

theway the all blacks are playing at the moment and for the last 10 years, no one can or will beat them. is there any other team as dominant in world sport?

I see your point too, and by no means am I saying it doesn't occur elsewhere.

What we all want is parity. But I think we do have parity (in the RC) for the most part) - definitely in terms of talent. The only place I see the Wallabies lack sorely in is depth. They field their best when they're healthy, they're as good as anyone. It's jut that there;s a pretty big drop off outside of their top 20-25 players.

Did you see that incident just after a line-out (I think it might have been in the lead up to one of the second half tries), where a South African came up into the AB line, possibly looking for an intercept, and the passer waited until he overran, then passed the ball behind him. I thought that was a bit cheeky!!

Yeah I saw that - that was when Habana basically pre-humped Carter wasn't it? There was also another glaring one where JDV was doing his best impression of an AB second receiver. :lol:

 

[Shaggy]

fair point admartian, I see where you are coming from. my opinion is that aussies in general (well at least I speak for myself) can handle losing, we can handle not being the best as long as there is a possiblity that we or another theam could win or at least that there is some sort of equality in the sport otherwise it becomes boring. if the shoe was on the other foot, it'd be the same. for instance, take cricket for example back in the hayden, langer, ponting, waugh, warne, mcgrath days.... boring. the best thing that happened to australian cricket was australia no longer being as dominant.

theway the all blacks are playing at the moment and for the last 10 years, no one can or will beat them. is there any other team as dominant in world sport?

Well no team is unbeatable, but I feel your frustration .... I felt a bit like that with the Wallabies of the late 90's early 2000's

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well no team is unbeatable, but I feel your frustration .... I felt a bit like that with the Wallabies of the late 90's early 2000's

This!

While we lost by a very big margin on Saturday, there were glimpses in that game and the game in dunedin where we showed how to beat the All Blacks, but execution, goal kicking and inexperience was the downfall.

The preparation was correct, and the finishing was a bit Meh... but, I think while our record under HM isn't looking very rosy at the moment, he has made massive strides. Building an entirely new team almost from scratch is one thing, but to be competitive against number 1 and 2 in the world, is amazing. New Zealand is a cut above the rest at the moment, no denying that. but a lot can happen in very quick time.