Rugby Championship: South Africa - Australia (29/09/2012)

[Draggs]

I'm talking about now, not 2015 otherwise I would have mentioned Kitshoff, du Toit, Serfontein and Stander

Fair play, good calls.
Cilliers isn't a loosehead though. Call up Steenkamp.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Cilliers can play both sides of the front-row.

 

[Draggs]

I'd still say Steenkamp loosehead, Cilliers tighthead is better then Cilliers loosehead, Mujati tighthead.
Oosthuizen will be back soon, from what I've read.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Well, to be honest, our props are not the issue. All seem very capable.

 

[TRF_heineken]

What's nice about this forum is to see how each guy dreams of his favourite bok-15. and while some may think that is brilliant, others will not. Eze has made clear his biased opinion on Sharks players, as I have about Bulls players. that's how the cookie crumbles.

I must say that life on the forum is a breeze since I put Icemn on the ignore list. I strongly suggest it to everyone!

My ideal 15 for now would look like this:

1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Coenie (@Draggs, he's back, he played for the Cheetahs the weekend and is in the bok-team)
4. Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger
6. Marcell Coetzee
7. Marnus Schoeman / Heinrich Brussouw
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Jano Vermaak
10. Johan Goosen
11. Francois Hougaard
12. Pat Lambie
13. Bryan Habana / JP Pietersen
14. Gio Aplon / Willie le Roux
15. Jaco Taute

now let me explain.

The forwards speak for themselves.

Jano vermaak is the scrumhalf that gets the ball out the quickest of any scrumhalf in SA at the moment. he uses the dart run a lot and his play with the forwards are fantastic, I just saw it again on the weekend with the Bulls.

My picks at centre might boggle some, but my reason for that is, I see 12 as a distributor, who can read the game if pressure is on the fly half. Lambie is the best choice for that. 13 should be a guy who can run good lines off 12 and link up with the wings.

the rest are also self-explanitory.

But enough about dreaming, I'm eagerly waiting for the team to be announced in a couple of hours.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Icemn.

PdV didn't bring change. Just see if you can't find some old footage. SA rugby hasn't always been solely based on kick and chase. It only really came to the fore in 2006 and at that time our play still had some variance. Only under PdV did we actually start solely relying on it at the expense of just about all else. So don't blame Boere for it, blame PdV; the buck has to stop at the coach I'm sorry- no excuses. Hell, even with Naas Botha at 10 we were a more attack minded team than under PdV

PdV was an idiot. That much is documented. I'm sure he is a nice enough guy but he is not fit to be head coach of any national team nevermind a top 3 one.

HM hasn't been much of an improvement mainly because he is sticking to the Blue Bulls players and tactics that havn't been workig for a while now. Nobody is saying otherwise; I don't know if you see posts from an alternate dimension where people are singing HM's praises or what?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

What's nice about this forum is to see how each guy dreams of his favourite bok-15. and while some may think that is brilliant, others will not. Eze has made clear his biased opinion on Sharks players, as I have about Bulls players. that's how the cookie crumbles.

I must say that life on the forum is a breeze since I put Icemn on the ignore list. I strongly suggest it to everyone!

My ideal 15 for now would look like this:

1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Coenie (@Draggs, he's back, he played for the Cheetahs the weekend and is in the bok-team)
4. Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger
6. Marcell Coetzee
7. Marnus Schoeman / Heinrich Brussouw
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Jano Vermaak
10. Johan Goosen
11. Francois Hougaard
12. Pat Lambie
13. Bryan Habana / JP Pietersen
14. Gio Aplon / Willie le Roux
15. Jaco Taute

now let me explain.

The forwards speak for themselves.

Jano vermaak is the scrumhalf that gets the ball out the quickest of any scrumhalf in SA at the moment. he uses the dart run a lot and his play with the forwards are fantastic, I just saw it again on the weekend with the Bulls.

My picks at centre might boggle some, but my reason for that is, I see 12 as a distributor, who can read the game if pressure is on the fly half. Lambie is the best choice for that. 13 should be a guy who can run good lines off 12 and link up with the wings.

the rest are also self-explanitory.

But enough about dreaming, I'm eagerly waiting for the team to be announced in a couple of hours.

That's news. Though I quite like the flavor the man brings to discussions LOL. Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment or like a challenge I can't say which.

I like that team Heineken especially on a hard fast surface they could do well. My own is a little heavier and possibly safer and would play more traditional Bok rugby but look to pressure opposition ruck and attack off the turn-over.

I'll throw my dream 15 into the mix;

A slight Stormers bias with some expats and youngsters. Please note this is for now and not 2015 and ignoring injuries.

1 Coenie Oosthuizen
2 Bismarck du Plessis
3 Brian Mujati
4 Gerhard Mostert
5 Andries Bekker
6 Francois Louw
7 Marcel Coetzee
8 Duane Vermeulen
9 Francois Hougaard (freed to play however he wants)
10 Pat Lambie
11 Brian Habana
12 Francois Steyn (-5kg's; I'd ride him hard..)
13 Jaque Fourie
14 Gio Aplon
15 Louis Ludik

16 Pat Cilliers
17 Adriaan Strauss
18 Eben Etzebeth
19 Willem Alberts
20 Piet van Zyl
21 Johan Goosen
22 Jaco Taute

My bench is for impact. Particularly I've always thought Alberts is an amazing player but only for 20 minutes and he'd be just that little more effective against tired opposition.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Hein,

I like your XV, but you cannot really say I am biased towards the Sharks players. Ludik and Whitehead are the form players and I left out 2 Sharks props in favor of a Lion and a former Stormer.

Also, switch 6 and 7... Vermeulen is a good pick at 8, but hasn't shown good form lately. He needs time to get back to his old self. Lambie at 12 is something I am happy with. Taute is a great full-back but you cannot ignore Ludik on current form.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Center is our biggest problem ATM besides 10/15 (not that we really have a problem it more that we need to get the form players- Lambie/Goosen and Ludik/Taute- exposure). F Steyn is one for the long haul but he needs to get into shape. He is still in France and needs to get into S15 shape. At 13 we have so many prospects but they need gametime next year in S15 for one or two of them to put their hand up. Next year's SR is the year for newbies to force their way into the RWC 2015 squad (by getting a foot into the door).

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Well, just focussing on the center positions, we have really enough choice.


Inside Center:

Patrick Lambie
With Goosen being the favorite pick at fly-half, Lambie's best chance to show his skills is inside center. Close to the action, passing the ball and breaking the line at will. He and Goosen could be a long-lasting partnership where they can switch at will.

Tim Whitehead
Inside center for the Sharks and one of the most consistent centers in this years Super Rugby season. He just returned from injury (broken hand) but objectively, he should be pushing F. Steyn out of the starting 15.

Francois Venter
Plays inside center for the Bulls and is the first choice with the departure of Meisiekind. Has not had his chance at Super Rugby level but one to watch regarding this position.

Marcel Brache
With Jean de Villiers in the Bok squad, this lad has shown his skill and shows a wide variety of options with his type of play.

Jan Serfontein
The best player during the Junior World Cup, he has already played some Currie Cup matches at a young age. Not there yet, but with regards to the 2015 plan, a valid option once we get there.

Robert Ebersohn
He is one of the most exciting centers I've seen in a while. Captaining his side during the Currie Cup gives him the chance to show his leadership qualities. He can play both inside center and outside center.


Outside Center:

Robert Ebersohn
See above.

Paul Jordaan
An exciting player with speed, agility and the ability to pass the ball as well. Despite being rushed into play after several injuries (which makes him a bit injury prone at the moment) he showed glimpses of a future Test level star. His gametime in this years Super Rugby season has brought some important experience into the mix and he will continue to develop over the years. Already one of the country's top outside centers.

Juan de Jongh
Not everyone will agree with his name being dropped here, but he does have the ability to break the line. He is strong on defense and just needs to work on his passing game. Despite that, a name to consider.

Lionel Mapoe
He was subject of a controversial move not so long ago when he turned down his done deal with the Sharks and moved to the Lions. Being among the top players every week in this years Currie Cup, he shows what he can do. He breaks the line more often than not and he could be the answer to our problems after Jaque Fourie moved to Japan.

Jaco Taute
Versatility with this lad is both a pro and a con. He should focus on the full-back position in the long run but he is suited to play outside center as well. He is the most exciting young back together with Goosen and Lambie. If we can have those 3 next to each other, it could be the start of a dynamic decade in Bok rugby.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

JdV is certain to be dropped next year, yeah. But who would captain our side? Our pack is inexperienced for the most and Bekker and Bismarck aren't leaders. Neither is Burger IMO if he even makes the XV. Best to go for broke and back a youngster at this stage. That is why Stander moving abroad is so bad for us. I saw him as a captain within 2 years. FLouw would be my bet but I don't know whether HM sees him as a long term player. Pienaar?

 

[TRF_heineken]

JdV is certain to be dropped next year, yeah. But who would captain our side? Our pack is inexperienced for the most and Bekker and Bismarck aren't leaders. Neither is Burger IMO if he even makes the XV. Best to go for broke and back a youngster at this stage. That is why Stander moving abroad is so bad for us. I saw him as a captain within 2 years. FLouw would be my bet but I don't know whether HM sees him as a long term player. Pienaar?

What about Frans Steyn? Outspoken guy.

not afraid to tell things as they are. could be a breath of fresh air...

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Juan de Jongh strikes me as being too small to be an international centre...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

What about Frans Steyn? Outspoken guy.

not afraid to tell things as they are. could be a breath of fresh air...

He certainly is a bit more mature and can be taken a bit more serious within the mane but I kinda doubt his commitment; not sure why. Personally I prefer a captain closer to the action as well; 1-9.

 

[kusta]

Holy ****


So far do I think HM is an idiot? A bit yeah, Jacque Potgieter, M.Steyn, JdV (Although I don't see if he has much of a choice, we can only hope and pray he'll pick another captain for next year) and he is an arrogant *******, but I'm remaining positive and hoping he'll surprise me. Because we need a ****ing break.

But PDv was never given that chance he was shot down from his first day of his appointment!

 

[TRF_heineken]

He certainly is a bit more mature and can be taken a bit more serious within the mane but I kinda doubt his commitment; not sure why. Personally I prefer a captain closer to the action as well; 1-9.

Then you narrow it down to Chilliboy, Pierre Spies, Duane Vermeulen, Adriaan Strauss, Andries Bekker... None of those have a definite chance of playing every game for the boks...

 

[TRF_heineken]

But PDv was never given that chance he was shot down from his first day of his appointment!

4 years are more than enough to be given a chance... he has had more chances than Julius Malema!

By the way... Speaking of Malema... it's pandemonium here in Polokwane as his trial starts today. there are cops everywhere!!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Then you narrow it down to Chilliboy, Pierre Spies, Duane Vermeulen, Adriaan Strauss, Andries Bekker... None of those have a definite chance of playing every game for the boks...

That's exactly why I'm worried. Not that I think any of those options are good enough leaders either despite not being sure core players. We need someone inteligent, a sure starter and some charisma (in the rugged rugby player type mind you) and eloquence won't go amiss.... we don't have that in our currnet setup.

4 years are more than enough to be given a chance... he has had more chances than Julius Malema!

By the way... Speaking of Malema... it's pandemonium here in Polokwane as his trial starts today. there are cops everywhere!!

Good luck!

 

[welshglory]

Schalk Burger, Bismark du Plessis?

Oh i just looked up and saw that some of you don't view them as leaders...
To be honest i think Bismark could grow into the role, but Burger's probably too old, and injury prone for a long term option.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Heyneke Meyer has made a song for his fav player...

Enjoy!