Rugby Championship: South Africa - Australia (29/09/2012)

[psychic duck]

i think Pdv did a brilliant job under the circumstances, why he wasn't kept I don't know... We would have seen lambie and co...

You would have also seen more of Smit, Januarie, Rose and co ...

PDivvy did average with a very good team, it was by no means a brilliant job.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Ok and this year?

HM stays in pretoria, used to coach the Bulls, Afrikaner =Conservative(doesn't want to see change) therefore very predictable.

Selection- Biased towards his old team =Therefore very predictable!

Kicking Game plan...played by his old team =Therefore very Predictable that the Boks will play it too.

Losing = Oh Very F*ckin predictable since the Bulls are doing the same

At least we knew most of this was going to happen... hey, again that is also predictable!!

what point are you trying to prove? that you are a bigger idiot than Icemn??

Heyneke Meyer said from day 1 on Supersport that he's going to use the traditional Springbok rugby methods and work from there. He said that kicking will continue to play a major role in how the boks play as that is part of our traditional style of play. He admitted that this year will be extremely tough based on the amount of injuries. He also said that he will pick his team based on experience and also on form, and that some people might not like his selections, but there is a bigger plan past this year and that we just need to get through it.

HE SAID ALL OF THIS IN MARCH!!!

it can't be predictable, as we all knew it before it happened!

 

[kusta]

i know for a fact Pdv use to sit in the coaches box and then he wasn't even aware of subs going onto the field... So was he the coach or just a front get the media satisfied before they turn it into a colour thing by stating rugby in SA is just a white sport why can't there be a black coach...

i think Pdv did a brilliant job under the circumstances, why he wasn't kept I don't know... We would have seen lambie and co...

By the way, did you guys know Pdv is and was always an AB supporter?

Hahahaha finally someone who isn't against me! Man staying here in South Africa you'd swear that rugby was invented here somewhere in the Transvaal region the way they think they own this sport

 

[Icemn]

what point are you trying to prove? that you are a bigger idiot than Icemn??

Heyneke Meyer said from day 1 on Supersport that he's going to use the traditional Springbok rugby methods and work from there. He said that kicking will continue to play a major role in how the boks play as that is part of our traditional style of play. He admitted that this year will be extremely tough based on the amount of injuries. He also said that he will pick his team based on experience and also on form, and that some people might not like his selections, but there is a bigger plan past this year and that we just need to get through it.

HE SAID ALL OF THIS IN MARCH!!!

it can't be predictable, as we all knew it before it happened!

Why are you complaining about HM then? This bold part is what you want right? Traditional stamp kar rugby?
why u also complaining about injuries then? Throwing your elite at opposition and walls (ARG) will inflict injuries...
who is the real idiot? Stop calling people idiots if u don't agree with them, prove them wrong...

 

[Icemn]

Hahahaha finally someone who isn't against me! Man staying here in South Africa you'd swear that rugby was invented here somewhere in the Transvaal region the way they think they own this sport

you know, I hate talking about color (cuz it seems I'm the only one bringing up the topic) but for a colourd/black man in Pdv, he needed to be almost perfect to be appreciated or accepted, where a Whitman in HM just needs to show up... Of you can understand what I'm trying to say... SA has got the potential to be the world best by mile... But it's mind set of HM stamp kar that will cause the downfall or delay of that process... SA needs an expansive mindset coach, pdiffy was prob the 1st, I stand to be corrected. He also just happened to be black, if he happened to be white so be perfect no problem with that... I really really like the things nick Mallott has been saying, but I think he wants the job lol, question is if he gets it, will he practice what he preaches? And will he be given the right/carte blanch to do it... Remember we don't knows going on behind the scenes, stuff is usually top down driven... He'll HM could also be a victim of this and we cursing the poor man

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

And I just went on to Youtube and watched the 19 tries scored by the Springboks @ the RWC 2011(Please go search and watch if you can to see my above point about Steyn and the type of game plan we were playing) and couldn't help but like how those tries came about and how our game plan was compared to the current one! We should never have dropped PDivvy after the world cup, look at NZ with Graham Henry after 2007 World Cup but every Boer oke in this country wanted PDivvy gone! We were on the right track I feel and now imagine Goosen featured in that type of game plan we were playing!!

PdV is not Graham Henry.

Stop generalising. PdV was an idiot and it has nothing to do with race/culture.

Now u bringing non Rugby related issues and getting personal?

And where things as predictable as they are now under HM? Cos we didn't look too predictable at the World Cup to me

And I never said anything about Conspiracy theories! Maybe if u already brain-washed by the media than you obviously will tell urself that you both have the same views when in fact they have made you buy into their views

Ok and this year?

HM stays in pretoria, used to coach the Bulls, Afrikaner =Conservative(doesn't want to see change) therefore very predictable.

Selection- Biased towards his old team =Therefore very predictable!

Kicking Game plan...played by his old team =Therefore very Predictable that the Boks will play it too.

Losing = Oh Very F*ckin predictable since the Bulls are doing the same

You were the one starting with non-rugby issues by saying my negative opinion of PdV as coach is not my opinion but the opinion the media wants to portray.

As for me getting personal I'd suggest you look at your own posts generalizing and insulting an entire people before you take offense at me getting personal.

People here aren't saying HM is the SA rugby messiah either. Many were beforehand but have you seen the ribbings HM has been getting? It has nothing to do with race and everything with results. And many did already have reservations about HM even before the 1st game (myself included). Saying the one is bad doesn't mean you are all for the other.

you know, I hate talking about color (cuz it seems I'm the only one bringing up the topic) but for a colourd/black man in Pdv, he needed to be almost perfect to be appreciated or accepted, where a Whitman in HM just needs to show up... Of you can understand what I'm trying to say... SA has got the potential to be the world best by mile... But it's mind set of HM stamp kar that will cause the downfall or delay of that process... SA needs an expansive mindset coach, pdiffy was prob the 1st, I stand to be corrected. He also just happened to be black, if he happened to be white so be perfect no problem with that... I really really like the things nick Mallott has been saying, but I think he wants the job lol, question is if he gets it, will he practice what he preaches? And will he be given the right/carte blanch to do it... Remember we don't knows going on behind the scenes, stuff is usually top down driven... He'll HM could also be a victim of this and we cursing the poor man

Apart from Heineken EVERYONE on this thread and in SA media is ribbing HM (probably even unfairly so with Heineken keeping the most level head) for his apparent over-conservative approach. Stop blaming everything on race differences (or rather cultural differences would be more appropriate and it just follows that genetics plays a major part in cultural differences as you inherit both from your parents).

I also agree that SA isn't moving towards realising our potential but where I disagree is that I think we need a synergised approach as I think if we try to play exactly like NZ we'll get thumped because of trying to play their game rather than developing our own. Also I don't think PdV was a coach with an expansive gameplan at all. He talked alot of about expanding the game at the start but like many other rants of his it was all BS and if anything our game became more tight and cotrolled under him than it was during Jake Whites time.

Please note that me not liking PdV as coach does not mean I or others ribbing PdV am overjoyed with what HM is doing as the majority of your and Kusta's posts seem to assume.

 

[nickdnz]

Interesting people even trying to defend PdV.

1. His selections were miserable.

Keeping John Smit starting every game either at prop (which he sucked at) or ahead of the best hooker in the world in Bismaark du Plessis. He justifies ignoring the form of the hookers because of an agreement he had with Smit while he was at Clermont. I'm sorry, you cannot overlook other players hard work and superior form because you agreed Smit would be the captain (while he was overseas), and try and claim any kind of high ground.

His selection of colored/black players over form players. Sorry, but it's true and I have no bias. Chilliboy was not better than Gary Botha. Januarie should not have been selected past 2008 on form. Earl Rose should not have ever got near a Springbok jersey. Plenty of players such as Habana, Pieterson, Aplon, de Jongh etc earned their spots like anyone else, but some of the players were given a ride into the team - and frankly I think PdV's justification of these selections were racist.

He showed an inability to adapt to the law interpretations. HM seems to have a similar problem, but SA went from winning the Lions series and 2009 Tri Nations (clean sweeping NZ), to finishing last in every Tri Nations since, while getting clean sweeped by NZ in 2010).

Most importantly, he's an idiot. There is a certain degree the media can spin public perception. However no amount of academic work I've read - which is a considerable amount on the subject considering my degree - has led me to believe that PdV was made to look like a complete idiot by anyone other than PdV. In his interviews he comes off as a self-rightious, arrogant, racist, fool - and the nature of the footage really makes any kind of justification of context irrelevant. HM on the other hand, I've always beeb impressed with how he conducts himself - instead of saying 'eye gouging is a result of physicality and if you don't like it you should do ballet' or anything to that extend, he instead repremands foul play.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Single-item enumerations: when a single argument makes the whole point

 

[kusta]

Please go back to any of my posts and show me where I said Pdv should have stayed coach because of his race! I said he was moving forward with his game-plan which we saw at the RWC so that's why I would've wanted him to stay as coach but people wanted him gone!

 

[psychic duck]

Interesting people even trying to defend PdV.

1. His selections were miserable.

Keeping John Smit starting every game either at prop (which he sucked at) or ahead of the best hooker in the world in Bismaark du Plessis. He justifies ignoring the form of the hookers because of an agreement he had with Smit while he was at Clermont. I'm sorry, you cannot overlook other players hard work and superior form because you agreed Smit would be the captain (while he was overseas), and try and claim any kind of high ground.

His selection of colored/black players over form players. Sorry, but it's true and I have no bias. Chilliboy was not better than Gary Botha. Januarie should not have been selected past 2008 on form. Earl Rose should not have ever got near a Springbok jersey. Plenty of players such as Habana, Pieterson, Aplon, de Jongh etc earned their spots like anyone else, but some of the players were given a ride into the team - and frankly I think PdV's justification of these selections were racist.

He showed an inability to adapt to the law interpretations. HM seems to have a similar problem, but SA went from winning the Lions series and 2009 Tri Nations (clean sweeping NZ), to finishing last in every Tri Nations since, while getting clean sweeped by NZ in 2010).

Most importantly, he's an idiot. There is a certain degree the media can spin public perception. However no amount of academic work I've read - which is a considerable amount on the subject considering my degree - has led me to believe that PdV was made to look like a complete idiot by anyone other than PdV. In his interviews he comes off as a self-rightious, arrogant, racist, fool - and the nature of the footage really makes any kind of justification of context irrelevant. HM on the other hand, I've always beeb impressed with how he conducts himself - instead of saying 'eye gouging is a result of physicality and if you don't like it you should do ballet' or anything to that extend, he instead repremands foul play.

Great post.

I thought PDivvy always sounded quite stupid and immature because of how he always brought the race factor into so many of his arguments.

He said that the criticism of Earl Rose and Januarie was racist, but it wasn't, it was because they were both playing poor.

He also selected Chiliboy Ralepelle when he was fourth choice hooker at the Bulls (behind Gary Botha, Bandise Maku and Derick Kuun at one point), Ricky Januarie who was behind Duvenage at the Stormers and Adrian Jacobs who was behind Terblanche at the Sharks.

And there was the thing where he had made a deal in 2008 to pick Smit as captain until the World Cup. Ridiculously leaving the best hooker Bismarck out of the side. Doing that also hurt Smit's legacy a bit I think.

Could you imagine All Blacks making a deal with Reuben Thorne (RWC 2003 captain) to lead the side until RWC 2007, and then continuing that deal despite Jerry Collins becoming the best 6 in the world during that period.

And then he tried to claim the moral high ground by going on about how he was "a man of his words".

 

[TRF_heineken]

Please go back to any of my posts and show me where I said Pdv should have stayed coach because of his race! I said he was moving forward with his game-plan which we saw at the RWC so that's why I would've wanted him to stay as coach but people wanted him gone!

Oh please, PDV's game-plan was non-existant. We all know whatever the experienced players wanted to do, was done.

If he had a proper gameplan, with that immense squad and some of the best players in the world available, he should've won the cup.

He's gone, because he was utter ****! he was a political pawn which didn't pay off and SARU had to sit with their feet in their mouths for the umpteenth time.

HM has a game plan at least. It's a kak one, but at least he has one. there is progress. With PDV there was no progression. From being unstoppable in 2009, to the whipping boys, is not an accomplishment.

 

[kusta]

Interesting people even trying to defend PdV.

1. His selections were miserable.

Keeping John Smit starting every game either at prop (which he sucked at) or ahead of the best hooker in the world in Bismaark du Plessis. He justifies ignoring the form of the hookers because of an agreement he had with Smit while he was at Clermont. I'm sorry, you cannot overlook other players hard work and superior form because you agreed Smit would be the captain (while he was overseas), and try and claim any kind of high ground.

His selection of colored/black players over form players. Sorry, but it's true and I have no bias. Chilliboy was not better than Gary Botha. Januarie should not have been selected past 2008 on form. Earl Rose should not have ever got near a Springbok jersey. Plenty of players such as Habana, Pieterson, Aplon, de Jongh etc earned their spots like anyone else, but some of the players were given a ride into the team - and frankly I think PdV's justification of these selections were racist.

He showed an inability to adapt to the law interpretations. HM seems to have a similar problem, but SA went from winning the Lions series and 2009 Tri Nations (clean sweeping NZ), to finishing last in every Tri Nations since, while getting clean sweeped by NZ in 2010).

Most importantly, he's an idiot. There is a certain degree the media can spin public perception. However no amount of academic work I've read - which is a considerable amount on the subject considering my degree - has led me to believe that PdV was made to look like a complete idiot by anyone other than PdV. In his interviews he comes off as a self-rightious, arrogant, racist, fool - and the nature of the footage really makes any kind of justification of context irrelevant. HM on the other hand, I've always beeb impressed with how he conducts himself - instead of saying 'eye gouging is a result of physicality and if you don't like it you should do ballet' or anything to that extend, he instead repremands foul play.

Aah please dude you don't know what you talking about please just stick to your own countries politics

 

[kusta]

Oh please, PDV's game-plan was non-existant. We all know whatever the experienced players wanted to do, was done.

Please tell me where you got that piece of information from?! If u read it somewhere on the newspaper than I can't take you seriously

 

[TRF_heineken]

Aah please dude you don't know what you talking about please just stick to your own countries politics

Actually he does know what he's talking about. you are the one that needs to shut up. for a 20 year old you sure are ignorant. You must be an ANC Youth League member...

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Well, Peter de Villiers has always been a coach who was using racism in every argument he had. A lot of the couloured players he used were just awful. Bolla Conradie, Tonderai Chavhanga, Gcobani Bobo, Ricky Januarie, Ashley Johnson and Earl Rose never deserved to even be in the squad based on their performance and form. Yet they were included by PdV. By far the worst black player to represent the Boks during his tenure is of course Luke Watson

I am waiting for the moment when we have a Bok team where the quality, form and performance is more important than skin color. Everyone was going on about Jongi Nokwe and yes, he scored 4 tries in 1 Test match against Australia but really, was it that much of an achievement? Yes, he put the ball down behind the try-line but for neither of his 4 tries that day he had to do much more other than catch the ball, take 2 steps and put the ball down. It was only an achievement on paper, really.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'd actually have liked to see more of Nokwe LOL. Certainly he did not have the all-round skillset to oust wings like Habana and Pietersen but I've always had a soft spot for what outright pace can achieve on a rugby field (having been a straight line outright pace winger myself LOL) although Nokwe was probably a bit light and too injury prone.

 

[psychic duck]

I'd actually have liked to see more of Nokwe LOL. Certainly he did not have the all-round skillset to oust wings like Habana and Pietersen but I've always had a soft spot for what outright pace can achieve on a rugby field (having been a straight line outright pace winger myself LOL) although Nokwe was probably a bit light and too injury prone.

Nokwe could be seeing Super Rugby again next season with the Kings.

Talking of light and injury prone wingers. That kid Wandile Mjekevu who scored a hat trick in that mad Lions Chiefs game a couple of years ago as a teenager has seemed to have vanished completely for the moment. Hasn't done much at all since then, I hear he is now in the Sharks squad? Hopefully he can reappear someday.

Well, Peter de Villiers has always been a coach who was using racism in every argument he had. A lot of the couloured players he used were just awful. Bolla Conradie, Tonderai Chavhanga, Gcobani Bobo, Ricky Januarie, Ashley Johnson and Earl Rose never deserved to even be in the squad based on their performance and form. Yet they were included by PdV.

Bolla Conradie was hardly even a regular for the Stormers when he played for the Springboks.

Gcobani Bobo retired from rugby this week by the way.

http://www.iol.co.za/blogs/kevin-mc...s-one-of-the-very-best-1.1384949#.UGG5bo1lR1M

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Wandile Mjekevu plays for the Sharks U21 at the moment.

 

[Draggs]

Chavhanga has been in good form for us. Currently out injured but ball in hand he is very dangerous. I think his son was born in Newport a few months back. Hope he has wheels like his old man, maybe we'll see him on the wing for Wales in a few years (well 20, Gatland surely has to draw the line somewhere)

The Sharks had an eye on Mjekevu playing outside centre, I think. Could be a good rival for Jordaan.

Meyer's recent defence of Steyn worries me.
I think he is waiting for Steyn to play a 'good' match and then use it to justify his continued inclusion. It reminds me of when we kept playing Lee Byrne (granted, SA have alternative, we didn't). We just kept hoping Byrne would magically hit good form and then we'd be set.

 

[nickdnz]

Aah please dude you don't know what you talking about please just stick to your own countries politics

Politics? I was talking about sport and the success of a coach. I think you're the one confused about the two.

I'm not attempting to offend anyone - I'm not at all claiming to have an insider knowledge of cultural politics within South Africa - I am saying that from my perspective, PdV was a poor coach who conducted himself poorly on and off the pitch. As for not knowing what I am talking about in terms of your media conspiracy, I think I actually know a lot more on the subject than you.

I am waiting for the moment when we have a Bok team where the quality, form and performance is more important than skin color. Everyone was going on about Jongi Nokwe and yes, he scored 4 tries in 1 Test match against Australia but really, was it that much of an achievement? Yes, he put the ball down behind the try-line but for neither of his 4 tries that day he had to do much more other than catch the ball, take 2 steps and put the ball down. It was only an achievement on paper, really.

Like stormer2010 I was actually a fan of Nokwe. The guy was lightening quick and seemed to be safer and less injury prone the Chavhanger. Till he got injured all the time...All the same, I love massive pace on wingers.