Rugby Championship: South Africa - Australia (29/09/2012)

[Draggs]

NO! We need Ludik in Durban, not holding tackle bags.
Lambie, go to Toulouse. They'll love you. [Lambie-McAlister, what a force!]
Clermont could do with an outside half.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Well, nothing will change. Everything is still the same. Mark my words. HM is only replacing the reserves, not the subs or first choices. The backline will still contain Morne Steyn, Habana, Francois Steyn, de Villiers, Hougaard and Kirchner

 

[Sker]

Blergh What a shitty weekend.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Lol.

I think with this squad of 30, HM is going to try and build the squad in preparation for the EOYT. It makes no sense whatsoever to have a squad of 30 for home games other than building it for future tours.

HM could easily have picked just 26 or so guys.

That being said, Brussouw was again excluded, and based on last night's performance, he didn't deserve a shot.

But one guy who could become a real force is Marnus Schoeman of the Griquas. Geez that guy has really impressed me.

 

[Sker]

Willie Le Roux, damn good attacking fullback/wing.

Brussouw shouldn't be in the team, based on LAST NIGHT, if Morne Steyn and Jacque Potgieter get to have 100000 tries at it why can't we give Brussouw a few chances? He always shines in a Springbok jersey and we know he is great.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Well, there's several players who I am missing. Ludik, le Roux and Bresler deserve a call-up based on their form throughout the season.

 

[Draggs]

So... Mtawarira, Strauss, du Plessis, Etzebeth, Kruger, Louw, Alberts, Vermeulen; Pienaar, SteynM, Habana, SteynF, de Villiers, Hougaard, Kirchner; Liebenberg, Oosthuizen, van der Merwe, Coetzee, Goosen, de Jongh, Taute.

OK, #22 is a bit fanciful.

I'd like this: Mtawarira, Strauss, du Plessis, Etzebeth, Kruger, Louw, Coetzee, Vermeuelen; Hougaard, Lambie/Goosen, Habana, SteynF/Lambie, de Villiers/de Jongh, Mvovo, Taute; Liebenberg, Oosthuizen, van der Merwe, Alberts, Pienaar, Goosen, de Jongh.

That would be using players only in the squad, just for fun (no injuries, everybody avaliable)...
Steenkamp, du Plessis, Cilliers/du Plessis, Etzebeth, Kruger, Brussow/Louw, Coetzee, Vermeulen; Hougaard (not my favourite SH), Lambie/Goosen, Pietersen, SteynF/Lambie, Taute, Aplon/le Roux, Ludik; Strauss, du Plessis/Oosthuizen, van der Merwe/Bresler, Alberts, Pienaar, Goosen/F Steyn, de Jongh/le Roux

 

[kusta]

Still no Brussow bleh! No Keagan Daniel who has played well for the Sharks in the Currie Cup thus far! Funny how for HM any player who is a non-Blue Bulls player flops one match they get dropped( Keagan Daniel after Cape town and Lwazi Mvovo in Australia) but no if you play for the Bulls you can make as many flops and you will get your chance to rectify things next week!


And HM please just release Lambie back to the Sharks we beg you! He can do more for us than holding your tackle bags thn only getting like 15min game time in like 4 tests! WE BEG YOU!!!


Aagh never mind that, HM can just go choke on that walkie Talkie he is always fighting with during the games for all I care! Can they just fire this guy already!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think a Bok win over Australia is well overdue, especially considering the last time South Africa beat Australia was over 2 years ago! I think you are spot on with regards to the injuries - while both teams have a similarly lengthy injury list, Australia are much more effected by their injuries, as they have nowhere near the depth of South Africa. The fact the game is at altitude is also a good advantage for the Boks - if they don't win this match I think some serious questions need to be asked....

Anyways, the Aussie touring squad is as follows:
Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs), Kurtley Beale (Melbourne Rebels), Digby Ioane (Queensland Reds), Dominic Shipperley (Queensland Reds), Nick Cummins (Western Force), Ben Tapuai (Queensland Reds), Anthony Faingaa (Queensland Reds), Pat McCabe (Brumbies), Berrick Barnes (Waratahs), Mike Harris (Queensland Reds), Nick Phipps (Melbourne Rebels), Brett Sheehan (Western Force), Scott Higginbotham (Queensland Reds), Radike Samo (Queensland Reds), Michael Hooper (Brumbies), Liam Gill (Queensland Reds), Dave Dennis (Waratahs), Rob Simmons (Queensland Reds), Nathan Sharpe (Western Force), Kane Douglas (Waratahs), Sitaleki Timani (Waratahs), Ben Alexander (Brumbies), Paddy Ryan (Waratahs), James Slipper (Queensland Reds), Benn Robinson (Waratahs), Saia Faingaa (Queensland Reds), Stephen Moore (Brumbies), Tatafu Polota Nau (Waratahs).

The biggest question is who will play at 10 in Quade Coopers absence. While the obvious solution would be to put Barnes at 10, and Beale at 15, I just have a suspicion that we may see Beale named at 10, and Barnes staying at 15. I would predict the following 22:

Robinson, Moore, Alexander, Timani, Sharpe, Dennnis, Hooper, Samo, Phipps, Beale, Ioane, McCabe, Ashley-Cooper, Shipperly, Barnes.
Bench: Polota-Nau, Slipper, Douglas/Gill, Higginbotham, Sheehan, A Faingaa, Cummins

However they may well opt for a 5/2 split on the bench, with both Douglas and Gill included, and perhaps Cummins dropping out.



The fact he was injured in week one may have a lot to do with that

Yeah, this Australian side is injury-depleted too. Boks will be hungrier. Home side to win again next weekend.

Man, I hope we beat the Aussies.

Yes we have a similar amount of injuries but while I feel we probably do have better depth the thing is that the Aus injuries are critical. Bismarck is the only possible world 15 player we have lost to injury. Aus have Genia nd Pocock while Beale and Cooper could be up there but are struggling for form after long injury lay-offs. I also wouldn't mind soemone like O'Connor in the backline and Aus are feeling it. At home and at altitude against an injury-hit Aus... I won't buy our own injuries and us rebuilding as excuses.

Well, nothing will change. Everything is still the same. Mark my words. HM is only replacing the reserves, not the subs or first choices. The backline will still contain Morne Steyn, Habana, Francois Steyn, de Villiers, Hougaard and Kirchner

Sadly I think you are 100% right that the starting XV will be pretty similar. Still while its baby steps we are taking at least they are in the right direction. I am tempted to call it fetus steps though.

---

On to the 30 man squad;

Mujati is forgotten. I'm assuming they contacted him and he was unavailable because CJ??? Honestly? At least its good that Pat and Coenie are back.

At lock I'd prefer Bresler or Bakkies over Flip but Flip did have a good outing against NZ so I'd be willing to see how it goes. Etzebeth back from suspension it'll be interesting to see who will start between Etzebeth and vd Merwe and Bekker and Kruger (I thought Bekker did well to sort out the line-out last time out after we were struggling early on)

I like FLouw and think he is ahead of Brussow ATM (might be my Stormers bias) so I'm not too fussed over Brussow's exclusion though I think we might shoot ourselves in the foot not at least having him training with the Bokke if FLouw gets injured or we can't get him released at Bath. Other than that I'm happy with Coetzee, Alberts and Vermeulen.

Not even gonna mention the f-up at 10. If I were Lambie I'd go overseas. Just terrible the way he is overlooked. I'd have had him starting after Steyn was flat against England with Goosen coming off the bench as he is currently.

JdV isn't on form and the fact that he is captain makes for some tough decisions which HM has shown he cannot make.

Awesome that Taute is in the squad. Would have been fantastic to have him and Ludik fight it out for the 15 jersey. Hopefully Taute at least gets a chance off the bench to oust Kirchner and more than the 5 minutes Lambie gets, please.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

South Africa have no business losing this game.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Sadly I think you are 100% right that the starting XV will be pretty similar. Still while its baby steps we are taking at least they are in the right direction. I am tempted to call it fetus steps though.

---

On to the 30 man squad;

Mujati is forgotten. I'm assuming they contacted him and he was unavailable because CJ??? Honestly? At least its good that Pat and Coenie are back.

At lock I'd prefer Bresler or Bakkies over Flip but Flip did have a good outing against NZ so I'd be willing to see how it goes. Etzebeth back from suspension it'll be interesting to see who will start between Etzebeth and vd Merwe and Bekker and Kruger (I thought Bekker did well to sort out the line-out last time out after we were struggling early on)

I like FLouw and think he is ahead of Brussow ATM (might be my Stormers bias) so I'm not too fussed over Brussow's exclusion though I think we might shoot ourselves in the foot not at least having him training with the Bokke if FLouw gets injured or we can't get him released at Bath. Other than that I'm happy with Coetzee, Alberts and Vermeulen.

Not even gonna mention the f-up at 10. If I were Lambie I'd go overseas. Just terrible the way he is overlooked. I'd have had him starting after Steyn was flat against England with Goosen coming off the bench as he is currently.

JdV isn't on form and the fact that he is captain makes for some tough decisions which HM has shown he cannot make.

Awesome that Taute is in the squad. Would have been fantastic to have him and Ludik fight it out for the 15 jersey. Hopefully Taute at least gets a chance off the bench to oust Kirchner and more than the 5 minutes Lambie gets, please.

The problem is, I am not even joking. We play at Loftus and leaving out Kirchner and Morne will be unthinkable. Meyer will start them for sure, since his precious Bulls fanbase is located in Pretoria. Dropping both for a game in the Bulls backyard requires guts and Meyer doesn't have that. He would rather stick to a gameplan that he knows in stead of trying a new tactic risking failure. Look at the Aussie side. They play rugby similar to the Reds, who won the Super Rugby ***le last year. The gameplan and tactics are quite similar. While the kicking rugby by the Bulls did not get them anywhere in Super Rugby since the new law changes, Meyer keeps insisting to use the outdated tactics. Why doesn't he look at what works? It's not like we lack the players to play a 15-man style of rugby with width and quick ball retention... The Sharks did it and made it to the SR final. We do have the players to take us a step further but in stead of using Lambie for more than 4 minutes we keep on seeing the same dull kicking and just handing the ball to the opposition.

I wouldn't be surprised if we lose to Australia. We play at altitude and Meyer wants to take advantage of that, meaning a lot of kicking. Meanwhile, Meyer blames the backline for not making the most of their chances. The fact he is talking about chances (plurar) shows his ignorance of the problem we are having. Morne Steyn is a great kicker but he doesn't know when to pass the ball. Now his kicking is costing us matches as well. He missed 8 points against England in the 14-14 draw, he missed 6 points against Argentina in the 16-16 draw, he missed 9 points against Australia in the 26-19 loss and finally, missed 11 points against New Zealand in the 21-11 loss. I am not saying I expect him to kick 100% every match, but if he at least kicked more up to his own standard, we would have at least won 2 of those 4 matches. Meanwhile, Lambie is carrying tackle bags, a guy who has helped his team to a Currie Cup victory and was instrumental in the matches he played in the last 2 years when at fly-half. Whether Goosen or Lambie plays, I don't care. Let them fight it out for themselves, but Lambie being pushed towards the full-back position is a shame.

If only we could have a backline of Lambie/Goosen-Habana-de Villiers-Taute-Mvovo-Ludik... We would have a backline who actually gets the ball, making the work for Pienaar a lot easier. There's another player who is struggling with the current gameplan. Don't blame Pienaar for the turnovers and slow recycling... The game-plan is to get the ball to the forwards or Morne to kick. If he has a fly-half next to him with a brain (like the last 20 minutes against the All Blacks) we see the Pienaar we know from Ulster. Quick recycling, variation in his ruck handling and showing great vision. With Morne Steyn next to him, he is forced to kick the ball back in the ruck and wait for Morne to get his ass in the right position, only to kick the ball away. I am just rambling on, but I just know nothing will change soon.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Well well,

Francois Steyn and Johan Goosen might be out for this weekends match. F. Steyn twisted his ankle during training today and was helped off the field while Goosen took a hard hit and is excluded from contact-training. Goosen only trained for 15 minutes. It's likely JdV will start at inside center with de Jongh next to him, Jantjies as fly-half cover for Morne Steyn, Lambie as utility cover (fly-half, inside center and full-back) with Mvovo filling the bench. Things will only be official on wednesday but it doesn't look good for Goosen and F. Steyn.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

vBookie Springboks-Wallabies

vBookie added for this match

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well well,

Francois Steyn and Johan Goosen might be out for this weekends match. F. Steyn twisted his ankle during training today and was helped off the field while Goosen took a hard hit and is excluded from contact-training. Goosen only trained for 15 minutes. It's likely JdV will start at inside center with de Jongh next to him, Jantjies as fly-half cover for Morne Steyn, Lambie as utility cover (fly-half, inside center and full-back) with Mvovo filling the bench. Things will only be official on wednesday but it doesn't look good for Goosen and F. Steyn.

Supersport Blitz had a different outcome to Johan Goosen... They reported that they are taking less strain on him as he is pipped to start at 10 this weekend and HM doesn't want him to get injured before the match so they want him to take it a bit easier during the contact sessions.

Frans Steyn's ankle is more of a concern at the moment, which could open the gap for Lambie/JDJ to start and quite possibly have Jaco Taute on the bench.

Other news reports are that Bjorn Basson is fit and could run out for the Bulls on the weekend. Chilliboy to be back next week.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Good thinking, not letting him get involved in the contact training. It will prepare him for the kicking game where the fly-half is never tackled.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Good thinking, not letting him get involved in the contact training. It will prepare him for the kicking game where the fly-half is never tackled.

But he's not Morne, and he plays flat, and runs with the ball, and pass, and tackle.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Yes, and Pienaar is a scrum-half who can recycle quickly, take initiative and has great vision but all that was thrown away due to the outdated gameplan of HM. When Goosen came on against the All Blacks, Pienaar played better immediately. I hope Goosen plays the same way against the Aussies on Saturday.

 

[Draggs]

Yes, and Pienaar is a scrum-half who can recycle quickly, take initiative and has great vision but all that was thrown away due to the outdated gameplan of HM. When Goosen came on against the All Blacks, Pienaar played better immediately. I hope Goosen plays the same way against the Aussies on Saturday.

I still feel that Pienaar really isn't an international scrum half. He looks left behind with the pace and kicks far too often for my liking. Reinach, Groom, and van Zyl are all good prospects, they need some time for their provinces.

 

[MattyEdgeworth]

I still feel that Pienaar really isn't an international scrum half. He looks left behind with the pace and kicks far too often for my liking. Reinach, Groom, and van Zyl are all good prospects, they need some time for their provinces.

I'm not worried, I'd rather have him playing for us!

Seriously though I disagree. I think he's looked really sharp at times for SA. He has a great rugby brain and I think it translates to international just fine. However when he's forced to play an outdated kicking game by Heyneke Meyer he defintely doesn't look as good.

 

[Peat]

I still feel that Pienaar really isn't an international scrum half. He looks left behind with the pace and kicks far too often for my liking. Reinach, Groom, and van Zyl are all good prospects, they need some time for their provinces.

I've watched none of the Rugby Championship so far, but what you describe doesn't resemble the way he plays for Ulster. Which means you might want to look as much at the coach as the player...