RBS 6 Nations - England vs Wales - 25/02/2012, 16:00

[Saintjay]

Interesting how people are rating Wales players over English players using the just back from injury arguement.

North, Warburton, Jones, Jenkins, Lydiate, have all had injuries recently and it is worth noting. I am not saying the England players are better but it is worth a thought.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

North Vs Ashton same amount of caps, Ashton 25 points more.

Interesting how people are rating Wales players over English players using the just back from injury arguement.

North, Warburton, Jones, Jenkins, Lydiate, have all had injuries recently and it is worth noting. I am not saying the England players are better but it is worth a thought.

If I see the Jenkins argument one more time ...

 

[Mogs999]

Wales go into this game a balanced,established and confident team. Gatland's easiest task this week was selecting the team, any welsh rugby fan could have picked it. Formulating the right game plan and covering all bases is a much bigger task and with his experience and pedigree, Gatland will bring the best out of the team. However, the same can't be said of the English set-up. Just read what's gone before, no two English supporters can agree on who to select! Lancaster has a much tougher mountain to climb! This for me will be the difference on the day.

 

[Saintjay]

If I see the Jenkins argument one more time ...

I think i told a lie Ashton has two more caps.

not trusting my old fella's info again.

What about Jenkins it is the injury thing I am on about not that he is rubbish. He is a very, very good prop.

 

[Sir-Fon]

Ashton is also 5 years older than North.

 

[dullonien]

Interesting how people are rating Wales players over English players using the just back from injury arguement.

North, Warburton, Jones, Jenkins, Lydiate, have all had injuries recently and it is worth noting. I am not saying the England players are better but it is worth a thought.

I'm thinking long term injuries v's little ****les. North, Warburton, Jenkins and Lydiate have all had small injuries, but they'll return without issue. Lawes and Tuilagi have been out for a while, and this will be their first game back.

 

[Saintjay]

True, both Lawes and Manu have had a couple of club games now, with Manu looking pretty good against Sarries. Not so sure about Lawes as I have only saw a little of the Saints from last weekend.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ashton is also 5 years older than North.

On a related note: I don't like it when teenagers are capped.
It just makes me think "....what have I done with my life?"

 

[Feicarsinn]

On a related note: I don't like it when teenagers are capped.
It just makes me think "....what have I done with my life?"

This!!!!!

I hate George North. And Jack Wilshire. And anyone who's younger and more successful than me.

 

[Draggs]

Damn it. I had a table of all Welsh Six Nations teams v England since 2007 and lost it.
*******, never mind. It showed some massive changes in the backline. AWJ is the only Welsh player to have started every match, with Ryan Jones and James Hook being involved in the 22 on all occasions.

 

[Zed]

I think England going into this game as underdogs is a huge bonus for them, Wales have a poor record at Twickenham and I think the Poms are starting to get a bit of self belief. Their defence is pretty solid, they have a reliable kicker and they're not giving away many penalties. Their attack is poor, but I guess you have to give them the benefit of the doubt with the conditions they played in. If SL uses his subs wisely I think England will win.

 

[bushytop]

I think England going into this game as underdogs is a huge bonus for them, Wales have a poor record at Twickenham and I think the Poms are starting to get a bit of self belief. Their defence is pretty solid, they have a reliable kicker and they're not giving away many penalties. Their attack is poor, but I guess you have to give them the benefit of the doubt with the conditions they played in. If SL uses his subs wisely I think England will win.

I generally like Aussies...

 

[Saintjay]

I generally like Aussies...

That surprises me after the last two games against them <_<

 

[TVH11]

Well its that time again where I get that extra little bit of exitement because its 6 nations vs the Old enemy. On paper and past 2 games one could suggest a welsh win, but in all fairness, England at HQ is always going to be a hard match. First Home game of the tournament as well as first Home game under the new regime its gonna be ineteresting. Wales have gone for consistency with their squad (minus injuries) so more of the same I'd like to expect. Gonna be an absolute cracker. Thankfully I will not be drinking, so my nerves should be intact by the end of the game.

Fingers crossed!!

 

[bushytop]

That surprises me after the last two games against them <_<

It's the fact that the Aussies seem to get under the skin of English men like the English get under the skin of everyone else...

Hmmm... better stick my helmet on!

 

[Zed]

I generally like Aussies...

Don't worry, I'll be cheering on the Welsh .

 

[Peat]

That's the best English side I've seen for a while. With that team and in Twickenham England could do very well I will predict either a tight win or a huge loss.

I wish to advert to your attention the England side of Summer/Autumn 2010 - so many important players from that injured or out of form. Amazing how it feels so long ago now...

 

[Getofmeland]

Players the England Squad will be picked from...

Forwards (12)
Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Ben Morgan (Scarlets)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Matt Stevens (Saracens)
Rob Webber (London Wasps)

Backs (10)
Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
Charlie Hodgson (Saracens)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Going back to their clubs

Chris Brooker Harlequins)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints)
Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)
Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins)
Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)

England Head Coach Stuart Lancaster said: "We've had a great two days of training and some difficult selection decisions with players coming back into the equation. There are some players have missed out this time but their attitude in training has been outstanding. We will look forward to meeting again on Wednesday night with our match day 22 and finalising preparations for the game."

 

[Dicey]

I think this maybe a little too close to call . England will have the best defence too date that we have met . Our pack needs to get parity and I would have a few concerns over the match fitness of AWJ and of course our usual archillies heel the line out. I think Mike Phillips could be the deal maker in this one for Wales unlike against Scotland where he was exposed to their marauding pack. Two away wins and home advantage for England certainly makes it interesting and I think they will come out with all guns blazing . If we can hold on to their coat tails til half time then the gap may open up in the second half.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

So how about player v player matchups, always fun and creates plenty of debate.

01 AlexCorbisiero v Gethin Jenkins
02 Dylan Hartley v Ken Owens
03 Dan Cole v Adam Jones
04 Mouritz Botha v Alun Wyn Jones
05 Geoff Parling v Ian Evans
06 Tom Croft v Dan Lydiate
07 Chris Robshaw v Sam Warburton
08 Ben Morgan v Toby Faletau

09 Lee Dickson v Mike Phillips
10 Owen Farrell v Rhys Priestland
11 Chris Ashton v George North
12 Brad Barritt v Jamie Roberts
13 Manu Tuilagi v Jon Davies
14 David Strettle v Alex Cuthbert
15 Ben Foden v Leigh Halfpenny

16 Rob Webber v Richard Hibbard
17 Matt Stevens v Paul James
18 Courtney Lawes v Ryan Jones
19 Phill Dowson v Justin Tipuric
20 Ben Youngs v Lloyd Williams
21 Toby Flood v James Hook
22 Chris Hodgson v Scott Williams

Am I being biased here? I struggle to see many English players that would be ahead of their Welsh counterparts.

Props are quite straight forward. Despite not rating Hartley, I've given him the nod over Owens due to Owens' inexperience on the international stage. Having Alun Wyn over Botha might be contreversial as Jones is only just back from injury, but Jones has been one of the best locks in the NH over the past year or more. He's had a couple of games back for the O's, so should be approaching good fitness. Ian Evans has been great since regaining his place in the Welsh squad, while Parling has been good for England, so a tie is probably fair. Wales dominate the backrow, especially as a unit. Even if Morgan had elected to represent Wales, he'd have been behind Faletau.

In the backline, I struggle to see a case for any English player to be ahead of their Welsh counterparts. Phillips wasn't great last week, but he's still a proven international and tends to love playing against England. Priestland is far superiour to Farrell in all but kicking and defense, but we have Leigh for kicking duties. Roberts is one of the best centres in world rugby, and Jon Davies is on fire. Barritt has been dependable, whilst Tuilagi is only just back from injury. In the back three Ashton is off form, while North is well North. I've been kind to Strettle, because he's seen no ball to really be rated yet, Cuthbert should probably have the edge based on their respective last games. Foden v Halfpenny is quite equal, although Foden had a bit of a shocker v Italy.

On the bench, Wales dominate again. This is in part due to the versatility of the players, Ryan Jones is much more versatile than Lawes (and Lawes is just back from injury), and Hook much more versatile than Flood (again Flood just back from injury). A case could be made for Hodgson over Williams, but apart from his two charge down tries, I haven't seen much from Hodgson, while Williams offers an impact off the bench.

On paper, this Wales team should win, but it doesn't always go that way on the day. Twickenham is always a tough place to visit aswell.

There's definitely some inconsistency in reasoning; you've picked AWJ despite being out for ages, and you said you haven't really considered Tuilagi because he's been out for ages. Similarly you've gone with gethin despite his absences
Also, Foden is a better 15 than Halfpenny, no two ways about it.

I want to protest more but what stops me from doing so is the form of some of englands best players and the fact that some players are untested at this level. You can't argue with form, but if form was diferent, lots of your choices could have gone the other way. In my opinion Croft on form is someone I would have over Lydiate. Choosing Ryan Jones over Lawes is sheer madness, the versatility thing doesn't usually come into play when people do these face-offs.