RBS 6 Nations - England vs Wales - 25/02/2012, 16:00

[rhifsaith]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...wards-at-Twickenham-says-Jonathan-Davies.html

aye, can just see these words put up on the english dressing room wall tho!

 

[B10]

I wouldn't read massively in to training shots, as they'll train in every possible combination of players, just to cover all bases.

However it's very possible we'd see that side.
Would leave 21. Hodgson 22. Flood though, which is NOT a good bench to have - one or the other + Brown (or someone else), not both.

Jonny May should be 22, can cover plenty of backline positions and deserves a chance.

 

[Sir-Fon]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...wards-at-Twickenham-says-Jonathan-Davies.html

aye, can just see these words put up on the english dressing room wall tho!

If international players need to be motivated by newspaper cuttings then they should not be wearing their national colours.
In my case the cap badge motivated me and surely a international cap/shirt should be all that's needed for a player to give his all.

 

[Saintjay]

Palmer, Brown, Jth all returned to clubs. BBC seem to think Lancaster will start with same back line as Italy

 

[dullonien]

So how about player v player matchups, always fun and creates plenty of debate.

01 AlexCorbisiero v Gethin Jenkins
02 Dylan Hartley v Ken Owens
03 Dan Cole v Adam Jones
04 Mouritz Botha v Alun Wyn Jones
05 Geoff Parling v Ian Evans
06 Tom Croft v Dan Lydiate
07 Chris Robshaw v Sam Warburton
08 Ben Morgan v Toby Faletau

09 Lee Dickson v Mike Phillips
10 Owen Farrell v Rhys Priestland
11 Chris Ashton v George North
12 Brad Barritt v Jamie Roberts
13 Manu Tuilagi v Jon Davies
14 David Strettle v Alex Cuthbert
15 Ben Foden v Leigh Halfpenny

16 Rob Webber v Richard Hibbard
17 Matt Stevens v Paul James
18 Courtney Lawes v Ryan Jones
19 Phill Dowson v Justin Tipuric
20 Ben Youngs v Lloyd Williams
21 Toby Flood v James Hook
22 Chris Hodgson v Scott Williams

Am I being biased here? I struggle to see many English players that would be ahead of their Welsh counterparts.

Props are quite straight forward. Despite not rating Hartley, I've given him the nod over Owens due to Owens' inexperience on the international stage. Having Alun Wyn over Botha might be contreversial as Jones is only just back from injury, but Jones has been one of the best locks in the NH over the past year or more. He's had a couple of games back for the O's, so should be approaching good fitness. Ian Evans has been great since regaining his place in the Welsh squad, while Parling has been good for England, so a tie is probably fair. Wales dominate the backrow, especially as a unit. Even if Morgan had elected to represent Wales, he'd have been behind Faletau.

In the backline, I struggle to see a case for any English player to be ahead of their Welsh counterparts. Phillips wasn't great last week, but he's still a proven international and tends to love playing against England. Priestland is far superiour to Farrell in all but kicking and defense, but we have Leigh for kicking duties. Roberts is one of the best centres in world rugby, and Jon Davies is on fire. Barritt has been dependable, whilst Tuilagi is only just back from injury. In the back three Ashton is off form, while North is well North. I've been kind to Strettle, because he's seen no ball to really be rated yet, Cuthbert should probably have the edge based on their respective last games. Foden v Halfpenny is quite equal, although Foden had a bit of a shocker v Italy.

On the bench, Wales dominate again. This is in part due to the versatility of the players, Ryan Jones is much more versatile than Lawes (and Lawes is just back from injury), and Hook much more versatile than Flood (again Flood just back from injury). A case could be made for Hodgson over Williams, but apart from his two charge down tries, I haven't seen much from Hodgson, while Williams offers an impact off the bench.

On paper, this Wales team should win, but it doesn't always go that way on the day. Twickenham is always a tough place to visit aswell.

 

[imthecrow]

Not sure I'm drawn in by the Welsh hype...

Controversial victory in Dublin. Wales played well, granted, but were indisputably helped by some dubious refereeing.
Victory over Scotland. Scored pretty much all of the match winning points while Scotland were down to 14 (or 13!) men?

Don't get me wrong Wales still look like favourites to me, but only by 3 - 6 points. England will not lie down at Twickenham.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Jonny May should be 22, can cover plenty of backline positions and deserves a chance.

Agree, however it won't happen as:
a) He's not in the EPS, was only in the Saxons and hasn't been called up to the main squad (though if Sharples is out longer then it could happen, though I imagine that Banahan would get the nod over him from the Saxons )

So how about player v player matchups, always fun and creates plenty of debate.

01 AlexCorbisiero v Gethin Jenkins
02 Dylan Hartley v Ken Owens
03 Dan Cole v Adam Jones
04 Mouritz Botha v Alun Wyn Jones
05 Geoff Parling v Ian Evans
06 Tom Croft v Dan Lydiate
07 Chris Robshaw v Sam Warburton
08 Ben Morgan v Toby Faletau

09 Lee Dickson v Mike Phillips
10 Owen Farrell v Rhys Priestland
11 Chris Ashton v George North
12 Brad Barritt v Jamie Roberts
13 Manu Tuilagi v Jon Davies
14 David Strettle v Alex Cuthbert
15 Ben Foden v Leigh Halfpenny

16 Rob Webber v Richard Hibbard
17 Matt Stevens v Paul James
18 Courtney Lawes v Ryan Jones
19 Phill Dowson v Justin Tipuric
20 Ben Youngs v Lloyd Williams
21 Toby Flood v James Hook
22 Chris Hodgson v Scott Williams

Am I being biased here? I struggle to see many English players that would be ahead of their Welsh counterparts.

I'd take Dickson and Tuilagi over Philips and Davies (though maybe Dickson = Philips, as Philips is on decent form atm), but apart from that I'd agree.

 

[B10]

That's fair enough I suppose.

I would take Tuliagi over Davies though but because Manu is just back from injury I can see your thinking. Lawes is versatile, he can play second row and backrow.

On form I think Ashton and North would be equal although they are completly different wingers. Also if Robshaw was at 6 I think he would be equal with Lydiate.

 

[Sir-Fon]

Nothing controversial about the win in Dublin they were the better side on the day. Wales beat Scotland by a good margin and Scotland were down to 14 men due to Welsh pressure.
England won by a couple of charge downs some would say there is some luck involved with the bounce of the ball but it's the score on the board that counts.
The Welsh players wont be taken with the hype they will turn up Saturday with a clear game plan and confidence that they can implement it.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

God Jonathan Davies talks such ****. He's almost as bad as Brian Moore. I don't see that the welsh pack are either bigger or more physical?

I guess perhaps in the second row we give away a bit. It's silly, i feel like recently I'm blindly defending england at every turn, but it's more like I just don'd understand some o the comments being made.

 

[dullonien]

Not quite sure why Tuilagi would be above Davies. Davies has probably been the form centre in the 6 nations so far. He's finally transferring his awesome Scarlets form that he's been showing for a couple of seasons to the international arena. He's a great finisher. Tuilagi is still unproven in my eyes, although better than anything else England have. The fact that he's just back from injury compounds the matter and makes it an obvious Davies > Tuilagi for the time being.

Not quite sure I can agree with Dickson over Phillips either. Dickson is only likely to play by default, because Youngs is appalling at present, Care's an idiot, and injuries. How can that compare with possibly the form scrum half of the WC, not to mention the vast difference in experience? Phillips is a marmite player, I accept that, but still.....

 

[psychic duck]

01 Alex Corbisiero v Gethin Jenkins - Jenkins
02 Dylan Hartley v Ken Owens - Hartley
03 Dan Cole v Adam Jones - Jones
04 Mouritz Botha v Alun Wyn Jones -Jones
05 Geoff Parling v Ian Evans - Evans
06 Tom Croft v Dan Lydiate - Lydiate
07 Chris Robshaw v Sam Warburton - Warburton
08 Ben Morgan v Toby Faletau - Faletau

09 Lee Dickson v Mike Phillips - Phillips
10 Owen Farrell v Rhys Priestland - Priestland
11 Chris Ashton v George North - North
12 Brad Barritt v Jamie Roberts - Roberts
13 Manu Tuilagi v Jon Davies - Tuilagi
14 David Strettle v Alex Cuthbert - Strettle
15 Ben Foden v Leigh Halfpenny - Foden

16 Rob Webber v Richard Hibbard - Webber
17 Matt Stevens v Paul James - James
18 Courtney Lawes v Ryan Jones - Lawes
19 Phill Dowson v Justin Tipuric - Tipuric
20 Ben Youngs v Lloyd Williams - Youngs
21 Toby Flood v James Hook - Flood
22 Chris Hodgson v Scott Williams - different positions

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

To be honest I think both Davies and Phillips are better than Tuilagi and Dickson, not that these two are bad players and Tuilagi probably will turn out to be better than Davies in the next four years or so but at the moment I see the two Welsh players as World Class (for all Phillips slow passing he has so many other great qualities to make up for it) and the English ones just aren't quite there yet.

 

[Mogs999]

I find it strange that we're comparing each player against his counterpart, yet there's no mention of Gatland v Lancaster? Do the coaches not have a place in the equation?

 

[dullonien]

01 Alex Corbisiero v Gethin Jenkins - Jenkins
02 Dylan Hartley v Ken Owens - Hartley
03 Dan Cole v Adam Jones - Jones
04 Mouritz Botha v Alun Wyn Jones -Jones
05 Geoff Parling v Ian Evans - Evans
06 Tom Croft v Dan Lydiate - Lydiate
07 Chris Robshaw v Sam Warburton - Warburton
08 Ben Morgan v Toby Faletau - Faletau

09 Lee Dickson v Mike Phillips - Phillips
10 Owen Farrell v Rhys Priestland - Priestland
11 Chris Ashton v George North - North
12 Brad Barritt v Jamie Roberts - Roberts
13 Manu Tuilagi v Jon Davies - Tuilagi
14 David Strettle v Alex Cuthbert - Strettle
15 Ben Foden v Leigh Halfpenny -Foden

16 Rob Webber v Richard Hibbard - Webber
17 Matt Stevens v Paul James - James
18 Courtney Lawes v Ryan Jones - Lawes
19 Phill Dowson v Justin Tipuric - Tipuric
20 Ben Youngs v Lloyd Williams - Youngs
21 Toby Flood v James Hook - Flood
22 Chris Hodgson v Scott Williams - different positions

Can I ask why Tuilagi, Strettle and Foden over Davies, Cuthbert and Halfpenny? Same will Lawes, Youngs and Flood on the bench v Jones, Williams and Hook?

 

[Sir-Fon]

Comparing player for player does not tell us much, successful sides have good partnerships and understanding between players.
Wales at the present time have a very good balanced side who know how to win and when things don't go according to plan they still fight on when in the past heads would have dropped..
Saturday will be tough and I would not expect any less from a six nations match but I'm quietly confident that Wales will win.

 

[dullonien]

Comparing player for player does not tell us much, successful sides have good partnerships and understanding between players.
Wales at the present time have a very good balanced side who know how to win and when things don't go according to plan they still fight on when in the past heads would have dropped..
Saturday will be tough and I would not expect any less from a six nations match but I'm quietly confident that Wales will win.

Of course, but it's always interesting to see who and why people opt for certain players.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Underestimate England at your peril ....

 

[dullonien]

Underestimate England at your peril ....

Yeh I know, just having a bit of fun really. Ultimately, I think everyone knows it's gonna be a close game. I do fully believe that player for player Wales are far superiour at the moment, whether or not that will translate to the scoreline is yet to be seen.

 

[bushytop]

Phillips HAS to be rated above Dickson atm it would be ridick not to... and if everything is taken into account Big Jiff would have to be picked ahead of Tuilagi, he has taken a whole to find his feet internationally but is the best 6N 13 on current form.