RBS 6 Nations - England vs Wales - 25/02/2012, 16:00

[Peat]

Surprised to see people feel Botha's played well. For me, both the starting locks have left something to be desired both games, and Parling's made an impact both times he's come on. Parling wouldn't be the man I dropped.

 

[bushytop]

Yeah think old lugs is being a little optimistic there.

 

[dullonien]

This is a big Welsh team but not the quickest, and it won't help that Philips fannys around for 10 minutes before getting the ball to anyone.

Not sure where you're getting that from. This is a very quick Welsh team. In the forwards, Jenkins is probably the fastest prop in world rugby, and Ken Owens aint no slouch. Warburton and Faletau are both extremely quick for forwards. In the backs, Phillips can be pondorous getting the ball out I agree, but after that it's not just size, but pace. Cuthbert and North are both extremely quick, certainly no slower than Ashton or Strettle. Halfpenny has always been quick. Jon Davies also had plenty of pace, I remember a try he scored for the Scarlets last season where he showed exceptional pace to just round everyone to score. Roberts isn't the quickest, but he's certainly no slouch as far as centres go, he couldn't have made it on the wing otherwise. Priestland is quicker than any 10 England can put out aswell.

Overall, not lacking in pace atall.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Surprised to see people feel Botha's played well. For me, both the starting locks have left something to be desired both games, and Parling's made an impact both times he's come on. Parling wouldn't be the man I dropped.

Thing is I don't think you can draw too much conclusions from a brief cameo as a sub unless the impact really is very big, such as when Dickson came on against scotland. Otherwise it's unfair to compare a lock's 60 minutes onfield to a sub's 20 minutes, as the game changes alot at that stage in the game. Subs are there for impact, the starting team is there for sustained graft. I don't think Palmer should be dropped, partly because fo hsi experience and partly because I'm just a fan. Arguably Lawes is the most dubious choice as he's being rushed back in, but I think we'd all like him there. Then, between Botha and parling, it seems harsher to drop Botha from the 22 altogether than to drop Parling from the bench. In the first place, Parling was only promoted to the eps as emergency cover, was he not?

Not sure where you're getting that from. This is a very quick Welsh team. In the forwards, Jenkins is probably the fastest prop in world rugby, and Ken Owens aint no slouch. Warburton and Faletau are both extremely quick for forwards. In the backs, Phillips can be pondorous getting the ball out I agree, but after that it's not just size, but pace. Cuthbert and North are both extremely quick, certainly no slower than Ashton or Strettle. Halfpenny has always been quick. Jon Davies also had plenty of pace, I remember a try he scored for the Scarlets last season where he showed exceptional pace to just round everyone to score. Roberts isn't the quickest, but he's certainly no slouch as far as centres go, he couldn't have made it on the wing otherwise.

Overall, not lacking in pace atall.

I wasn't think about forwards, just about the backs. I'm probably exaggerating slightly, but It's not the quickest side you've ever put out. That's not the same as calling them all slouches. Also, is North really as quick as Ashton?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Surprised to see people feel Botha's played well. For me, both the starting locks have left something to be desired both games, and Parling's made an impact both times he's come on. Parling wouldn't be the man I dropped.

I don't think Botha has played particularly well, however I get the feeling that the coaching staff like him (dont know why though) so would get the nod over Palmer


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[SelimNiai]

Subs are there for impact, the starting team is there for sustained graft.

Wouldnt you rather have the "impact" from the start? For example, if I were neutral of course, Dickson has made England better when he comes on so its better for England to have the better, more in form player to start rather than Ben I'm-only-playing-cos-I-play-for-Leicester Youngs. As I'm not neutral I hope Youngs does play.

 

[dullonien]

I wasn't think about forwards, just about the backs. I'm probably exaggerating slightly, but It's not the quickest side you've ever put out. That's not the same as calling them all slouches. Also, is North really as quick as Ashton?

I'd say that the Welsh backs will have the edge in pace over the English backs, just. And yes, North is as quick as Ashton, and Cuthbert possibly slightly quicker, although not much in it at all.

Edit. Honestly, I can't think of many Welsh players over the past decade that are quicker than the current bunch in the backs. Shane Williams is the obvious exception. Rhys Williams was also an absolute speed merchent when he wasn't injured (the guy was more legs than anything else). Other than those two, I wouldn't say Kevin Morgan was any quicker than Halfpenny. Jamie Robinson was quick in his early days at centre, but his injury count slowed him down a little, afterwards Shanklin and Henson were never all that quick. Stephen Jones was very slow at 10. Peel would obviously have the edge over Phillips, but then Lloyd Williams on the bench is quicker than Peel again. Gareth Thomas and Dafydd James weren't close to the likes of North, Cuthbert and Jon Davies. I'm probably forgetting a couple of flyers, but I'd say this current bunch stack up quite well, with pace in every position.

Further edit. Forgot about Mark Jones, quick in his prime, pitty he struggled to stay upright .

 

[Peat]

I don't think Botha has played particularly well, however I get the feeling that the coaching staff like him (dont know why though) so would get the nod over Palmer

Fair enough

Thing is I don't think you can draw too much conclusions from a brief cameo as a sub unless the impact really is very big, such as when Dickson came on against scotland. Otherwise it's unfair to compare a lock's 60 minutes onfield to a sub's 20 minutes, as the game changes alot at that stage in the game. Subs are there for impact, the starting team is there for sustained graft. I don't think Palmer should be dropped, partly because fo hsi experience and partly because I'm just a fan. Arguably Lawes is the most dubious choice as he's being rushed back in, but I think we'd all like him there. Then, between Botha and parling, it seems harsher to drop Botha from the 22 altogether than to drop Parling from the bench. In the first place, Parling was only promoted to the eps as emergency cover, was he not?

And? Doesn't matter how he's there, pick the best players. Parling has come on and looked good. Yes Botha and Palmer may have grafted, but neither have convinced. If one of three players does his job, he shouldn't be the one removed. I can't say I feel overly strongly about this, but I absolutely know what I'd be doing - and certainly can't see why either Botha or Palmer are said to be playing well.

I wasn't think about forwards, just about the backs. I'm probably exaggerating slightly, but It's not the quickest side you've ever put out. That's not the same as calling them all slouches. Also, is North really as quick as Ashton?

I'm pretty sure this Welsh set of backs is quicker than ours, particularly in the midfield area.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

England have released:

Chris Brooker (Harlequins)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints)
Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)
Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins)
Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)

My prediction above still stands (but Tuilagi in the 22 shirt):

Corbisiero, Hartley, Cole
Botha, Parling
Croft, Robshaw, Morgan
Dickson, Hodgson
Ashton, Farrell, Barritt, Strettle
Foden

Webber, Stevens, Lawes, Dowson, Youngs, Flood, Tuilagi​

 

[B10]

Interesting Palmer has been released. Good to see Lancaster have faith with Parling though, I think he has looked handy from the bench.

 

[Peat]

Pray that nothing happens to Foden, or we shall look like ***s.

 

[Mogs999]

Pray that nothing happens to Foden, or we shall look like ***s.

Harsh, but true! lol

 

[Robert Prosser]

Happy with the team be hard not to be going top be a massive game hope we dont under estimate England still playing at their ground and they always up the game against us but we are a different animal now we seem to have a bit more killer instinct.

We got pace to burn in the backs and brute force with some big ball carrying forwards should be a great match, cant wait to watch it when I get home on Saturday at some point after the match.

Cant believe I am missing the game but my little girl comes first.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Pray that nothing happens to Foden, or we shall look like ***s.

Put Tuilagi at fullback: If they kick the ball to him, and he's got enough room to build up a head of steam then no one will be able to put him down

 

[B10]

Just having a look at England training pictures and theres lot of pictures of England lined up with Dickson 9, Farrell 10, Barritt 12, Manu 13

This is how I think we should line up so would be very pleased.

I think we the team will be:

1. Corbs
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Botha
5. Parling
6. Croft
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan

9. Dickson
10. Farrell
11. Ashton
12. Barritt
13. Tuilagi
14. Strettle
15. Foden

16. Webber
17. Stevens
18. Lawes
19. Dowson
20. Youngs
21. Flood
22. Not sure??? Hodgson is the only other player retained

hmmm that's thrown me that Hodgson is the only other play as I can't see Flood and Hodgson on the bench. I can only dream we call up Jonny May for the #22 shirt. Why have we let Brown go back to Quins?

edit to add: Anyone know why Ashton has been on the left? I wonder if we may get him back on the right for this one.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That's the best English side I've seen for a while. With that team and in Twickenham England could do very well I will predict either a tight win or a huge loss.

 

[rhifsaith]

well i'm worried about this one,if the english boys have read what JD1 has said about them going to be smashed,all these pics on facebook (crap) with sayings like watchout england the Welsh are coming!! then that is some motivation for them.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I wouldn't read massively in to training shots, as they'll train in every possible combination of players, just to cover all bases.

However it's very possible we'd see that side.
Would leave 21. Hodgson 22. Flood though, which is NOT a good bench to have - one or the other + Brown (or someone else), not both.

 

[bushytop]

Bases covered then.

 

[Sir-Fon]

well i'm worried about this one,if the english boys have read what JD1 has said about them going to be smashed,all these pics on facebook (crap) with sayings like watchout england the Welsh are coming!! them that is some motivation for them.

He said the Welsh "should absolutely smash" the English physically.. If Wales expected to come away from Twickenham with a win on Saturday.