Rate Tier 1 nations in order

[iINDOMINUSxx]

that's difficult to understand, are you saying luckily for the Welsh and Ire, France are harmless until they get a new coach ? Btw, you like Tom and Jerry ?

well...... yes. that is what i said and i did watch tom and jerry like 13 years ago why ?

 

[Big Ewis]

well...... yes. that is what i said and i did watch tom and jerry like 13 years ago why ?

Oh bshhhh, yeah right, stop showing off..like you were born 13 years go...And yeah then you're right. The one thing people could possibly fear from France today is that we get a new coach. That could potentially be terrifying, and it should come as fantastic erection-inducing news that apparently the president of the FFR is seriously considering keeping Saint-André til at least 2016, for the 6N after the RWC.
I don't expect much currently, although I'm always hopeful something clicks out of nowhere (it is rationally foreseeable, not impossible) - and I do believe they've got something fkng random in store for the WC. But I think everybody does !

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

like france has the players to be a threat i dont know whats happening with them

 

[SimonG]

well...... yes. that is what i said and i did watch tom and jerry like 13 years ago why ?

Why have you stopped watching Tom and Jerry? Television disposesed?

 

[Big Ewis]

Why have you stopped watching Tom and Jerry? Television disposesed?

are you seriously suggesting his television was once possessed, Simon ?? God, they're right...such a troll...

 

[Jbobo]

The one thing people could possibly fear from France today is that we get a new coach. That could potentially be terrifying, and it should come as fantastic erection-inducing news that apparently the president of the FFR is seriously considering keeping Saint-André til at least 2016, for the 6N after the RWC.

To be honest, not particularly. I don't think the problem is all the coaching, it is a mixture of a huge crisis in the top 14 the huge influx of foreign players and (which goes hand in hand) a shortage of depth in talent. From a Welsh perspective, i haven't expected to lose to France since 2011 and i don't believe this is the fault of the French coaching. The top 14 needs to sort out it's foreign recruitment policy in order to improve the national squad.

Not that you couldn't benefit from a world class coach - I just think it is naive to assume France will suddenly be an unstoppable force like you sometimes envision if you get a new coaching staff...

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Why have you stopped watching Tom and Jerry? Television disposesed?

to be honest its probably better than the other s**t you get on tv now a days apart from rugby

 

[profitius]

A twist on things!

Top 5's in....

Attack - NZ, Australia, France, SA, Wales
Defence - England, SA, NZ, Australia, France
Set pieces - England, SA, NZ, France, Argentina
Physicality - SA, England, Wales, Samoa, Argentina
Squad depth - England/SA, France, NZ, Australia
Coach - NZ, Wales, Scotland, England, SA


Attack and coach would be the most important thing there and many more things have to be taken into account to make a good team.

I left out Ireland because I might be biased

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

A twist on things!

Top 5's in....

Attack - NZ, Australia, France, SA, Wales
Defence - England, SA, NZ, Australia, France
Set pieces - England, SA, NZ, France, Argentina
Physicality - SA, England, Wales, Samoa, Argentina
Squad depth - England/SA, France, NZ, Australia
Coach - NZ, Wales, Scotland, England, SA


Attack and coach would be the most important thing there and many more things have to be taken into account to make a good team.

I left out Ireland because I might be biased

sure you could add USA to Physicality they are pretty physical, and ireland might be in the Set piece and maybe attack

 

[Big Ewis]

To be honest, not particularly. I don't think the problem is all the coaching, it is a mixture of a huge crisis in the top 14 the huge influx of foreign players and (which goes hand in hand) a shortage of depth in talent. From a Welsh perspective, i haven't expected to lose to France since 2011 and i don't believe this is the fault of the French coaching. The top 14 needs to sort out it's foreign recruitment policy in order to improve the national squad.

Not that you couldn't benefit from a world class coach - I just think it is naive to assume France will suddenly be an unstoppable force like you sometimes envision if you get a new coaching staff...

I don't need to lose time answering this in detail. God knows it certainly doesn't deserve it on any account because it's just so far from anything founded and interesting, but also because I can offer some element of response quickly: you've seen France play, at least a couple of games from 2013 til today. You've watched a bit of Top 14, surely stretches here and there if not full matches (as you rightfully should as a basic necessity, making such claims). So you know what Fofana, Picamoles, Parra, Dusautoir, Nyanga, Maestri, Kayser, Bastareaud, Dulin, Fickou, Huget...etc...etc...etc...are capable of doing on a functional team. Put two and two together. Voilà.

And I'm not hiding behind that concept we just don't have the coach while we should be dominant with a good one, but I know the players I talk about, I know them like my pocket, and I've seen what they can do against the best. With a proper coach, we could really scare the likes of NZ and SA, no doubt whatsoever. Just look at the recent results we've achieved against those two with *ZERO ATTACKING PLAN* and each player playing hero ball on his own initiative.

Here's a piece of patience from my part: the 'too many foreigners' argument is already age old and obsolete, the reasons have been stated literally dozens of times on this very forum, by me alone - and others. If you're truly committed to this topic, look for the facts, don't base yourself on false notions that make sense in theory but that are far from the realities.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think France have more than enough home grown talent and I don't feel the French club situation changes that. Personally I think it is selection and management that is the issue. You look at many of the French players and it's not like many of them couldn't get a place in just about any other national side if they really wanted, except where the role for their position is too different for another nation. The problem is France can look indecisive in attack, like a team of individuals.

 

[Big Ewis]

I think France have more than enough home grown talent and I don't feel the French club situation changes that. Personally I think it is selection and management that is the issue. You look at many of the French players and it's not like many of them couldn't get a place in just about any other national side if they really wanted, except where the role for their position is too different for another nation. The problem is France can look indecisive in attack, like a team of individuals.

it may be the pestiferous odors of the gas I've just passed giving me a temporary high, but that deserves +1 for it is concise, from someone who isn't French, well analyzed and mostly, real; i.e. doesn't follow an easy explicative trend in speculative theory. I'm not just having a boner because there's compliment in there, but if only some ppl knew what our guys can do on a team with real purpose, a healthy environment and actual chemistry they can build on. With France, it's like everything starts from scratch each time. Just look for yourselves: our 2014 6N campaign was bad overall, but we did produce an okay game in the opener against England, and ended on another pretty good performance against Ireland. Papé makes that textbook pass to wideopen Chouly, we win. And just when you'd think "ah, things look like maybe they're going to be okay" they take 50 in the ass from the Wallabies, then a tremendous defensive effort in Test 2 but still nothing offensively, and then another nice phallus in the rear.

Everybody thought AUS were awesome because they looked so good against France, turns out they weren't that good at the 4N. That tells you how bad France were.

Do you really think for a second Fofana Huget Dulin Lamerat etc...lack attacking ability ?? It's really quite easy to get a hang of the problem if you devote 3 or 4 seconds to it.
Does this mean France would be number 1 in the world with a proper coaching staff ? Who's saying that, nobody's saying that...

 

[profitius]

sure you could add USA to Physicality they are pretty physical, and ireland might be in the Set piece and maybe attack

Kicking would be another category.

USA are physical alright but I wouldn't put them in the top 5 teams.

 

[TRF_heineken]

@heineken been staying father quiet, must be thinking about his mistakes and changing them.

I'm writing exams...

and I found a saying that is applicable to you:

De minimis non curat lex

 

[Jbobo]

I don't need to lose time answering this in detail. God knows it certainly doesn't deserve it on any account because it's just so far from anything founded and interesting, but also because I can offer some element of response quickly: you've seen France play, at least a couple of games from 2013 til today. You've watched a bit of Top 14, surely stretches here and there if not full matches (as you rightfully should as a basic necessity, making such claims). So you know what Fofana, Picamoles, Parra, Dusautoir, Nyanga, Maestri, Kayser, Bastareaud, Dulin, Fickou, Huget...etc...etc...etc...are capable of doing on a functional team. Put two and two together. Voilà.

And I'm not hiding behind that concept we just don't have the coach while we should be dominant with a good one, but I know the players I talk about, I know them like my pocket, and I've seen what they can do against the best. With a proper coach, we could really scare the likes of NZ and SA, no doubt whatsoever. Just look at the recent results we've achieved against those two with *ZERO ATTACKING PLAN* and each player playing hero ball on his own initiative.

Here's a piece of patience from my part: the 'too many foreigners' argument is already age old and obsolete, the reasons have been stated literally dozens of times on this very forum, by me alone - and others. If you're truly committed to this topic, look for the facts, don't base yourself on false notions that make sense in theory but that are far from the realities.

Let me grab a quick fact. Toulon, the reigning champions of Europe have at least 23 foreign players in their squad and only 17 French. Clermont have 12 foreign players, Castres have 17 foreign players, Racing metro 17. France has a few very good players, a couple of which i'd welcome with open arms into the Welsh setup, but a few good players does not make a world class squad. I believe the problem is that you simply do not have the depth to replace these players if they are not playing well. The gulf in class when they do, is bigger than most of the top nations and it is getting bigger. Perfect selection will not compensate for lack of genuine depth and quality. Most of the names you mention above would not walk into any international selection. Bastareud for example is highly overrated. If these players were not surrounded by some of the best foreign players in the world, i doubt they would be even near as much of a threat - which they haven't been.

The thing is, i am providing more fact than anything you have and your arguments are based on false notions of misused talent and misguided expectations of a team which just isn't what it used to be.

Keep hanging on though, i guess i'd do the same.

 

[Big Ewis]

Let me grab a quick fact. Toulon, the reigning champions of Europe have at least 23 foreign players in their squad and only 17 French. Clermont have 12 foreign players, Castres have 17 foreign players, Racing metro 17. France has a few very good players, a couple of which i'd welcome with open arms into the Welsh setup, but a few good players does not make a world class squad. I believe the problem is that you simply do not have the depth to replace these players if they are not playing well. The gulf in class when they do, is bigger than most of the top nations and it is getting bigger. Perfect selection will not compensate for lack of genuine depth and quality. Most of the names you mention above would not walk into any international selection. Bastareud for example is highly overrated. If these players were not surrounded by some of the best foreign players in the world, i doubt they would be even near as much of a threat - which they haven't been.

The thing is, i am providing more fact than anything you have and your arguments are based on false notions of misused talent and misguided expectations of a team which just isn't what it used to be.

Keep hanging on though, i guess i'd do the same.

dude I genuinely don't mean this in a negative, pompous way. But just trust me, you don't know what you're talking about. Like just 'Bastareaud is overrated', I can see you haven't watched Toulon at all this season, nobody who knows would agree with that. If there were anything interesting in your post, I'd attempt to answer it, but there isn't so I'll just settle for this respectful reply. And for the last sentences of your post, I don't see where that attitude is coming from but it certainly was very unnecessary.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

I'm writing exams...

and I found a saying that is applicable to you:

De minimis non curat lex

good to see that you had to write in a different language, this is an english speaking forum but i have a saying for you

SCOTLAND IS BETTER AT RUGBY THEN ITALY!

 

[Groundhog]

good to see that you had to write in a different language, this is an english speaking forum but i have a saying for you

SCOTLAND IS BETTER AT RUGBY THEN ITALY!

Tóg go bog é a mhic.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Everybody thought AUS were awesome because they looked so good against France, turns out they weren't that good at the 4N. That tells you how bad France were.

Do you really think for a second Fofana Huget Dulin Lamerat etc...lack attacking ability ?? It's really quite easy to get a hang of the problem if you devote 3 or 4 seconds to it.
Does this mean France would be number 1 in the world with a proper coaching staff ? Who's saying that, nobody's saying that...

I think he made the point that France play as individuals and that as a unit they lack any real direction or plan. Would France be number 1 in the world with proper coaching staff, no. I think that to be the best rugby has to be your main sport like in New Zealand and South Africa, England managed it in 2003 but that was a bit of a fluke and because we have so many players because of our population.
With the amount of French players in the Top 14, I don't think the issue is the sheer numbers. I think the problem you have is the mentality coaches have when it comes to results. Most leagues in the world are geared around the national team and trying to make them a success, in France it is very much club rugby first. So if a young French player is playing well then great, but if his performances start to slip then they will be dropped. Look at Toulouse in how they use Galan, they played Tekori over him at 8 because Noves needs results and he can't take risks with young French guys, even if they appear to be good enough. Look at Toulon they let Palisson, Martin and Gunther all go this summer and they brought in O'Connor, Halfpenny and Gorgodze. Even though they have supplied a large contingent of the France squad only 3 or 4 of them normally start if everyone is fit, if i'm being generous. But for every Toulon there is a Montpellier, who have given guys like Speloni a chance after their first choice got injured.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Tóg go bog é a mhic.

tá mé leithscéal as mo theanga ionsaitheach