[November Tests 2017 EOYT] England vs. Australia (18/11/2017)

[galumay]

We invented the Rugby World Cup,

Thats not actually true, it was proposed a few times in the 80's firstly by Australia and later by NZ, finally it was voted for by the IRFB in 1985. Invent is probably the wrong word, fair to say it was largely pressure from the SH sides that led to the RWC. (although France also supported it and delegates from England & Wales were split in their support.)
(apologies if I took you too literally and you were just having a shot back at TRF_Olyy)

 

[The Jones Boy]

In 1987 Israel Folau's father was offside.

 

[Hmmmmmm]

Time to use the ignore feature. Apologies for my fellow Australian's trolling.

Disagreeing isn't trolling Galumay. Looks like not much has changed since your limited days on GAGR.

 

[Pom in Exile]

As games go it was quite bizarre.
I have a feeling we may hear considerable griping from the Wallaby fraternity for some time after that outcome.
Definitely not their day to buy a lottery ticket.

You're not wrong, the Aussie whinge fest is going gangbusters.

 

[galumay]

Disagreeing isn't trolling Galumay.

You are right, he wasnt disagreeing though, he was trolling.

Looks like not much has changed since your limited days on GAGR.

You mean since I was perma banned for calling out a personal attack by a moderator?

I will use the Groucho Marx response to that cesspit.

Lets just stick to discussing the game in a civil and sensible manner, eh?

 

[galumay]

In 1987 Israel Folau's father was offside.

Damn, you never miss a Folau offside, do you?!

 

[RoosTah]

Personally I didn't think Australia were good enough to win, even if they really did cop a few rough calls and England escaped a few themselves. Sadly, the fundamentals of the sports in both countries are just very mismatched right now to the point where frankly I think it's probably fair to say that League is doing a lot better in England than Union is in Australia.

It's interesting to see the level of Aussie influence over English sport though - like Union and Cricket, England also have an Aussie master coach at the helm now in League too, so it'll be interesting to see how their side evolves over the next few years. As someone who prefers league, I actually kinda hope you guys win the League world cup this year as it'd inject a lot of interest in what has been a sadly one-sided rivalry for the past 50 years.

 

[ncurd]

Don't need a warning if you are stupid enough to give away 5 penalties in a minute 5m from your own try line.

This is the bit people are missing with the Hooper YC he didn't do this and England got 5 penalties awarded he committed 5 penalties during the same string of phases, when was the referee supposed to warn him, possibly the first time he yelled advantage? To commit 4 more offences after that is just cynical play and like I've said many time in the past a YC offence at the 5 meter line should also result in a penalty try. Maybe then idiots like Hooper will actually stop committing cynical penalties at that stage and stop players from legitimately building up front the try. He'll collapsing the maul 1 meter from the try line should be a penalty try....

Beale sorry clear as day deliberate knock on and the second you slap down a ball in 2 on 1 situation with an outstretched hand and only get your finger tips to it the ref is likely to go for the card regardless.where you are on field.

Hooper offside been covered.

Robshaw tackle well considering he attempts the tackle in front of the ball carrier I'm not sure how he was offside. As he must of of retreated to be in that position. Moore clearly impede him from making a full tackle not sure how you can argue it's not obstruction.

Honestly the only thing where England got the rub of the green was whether the ball was in touch or not and as noted it had to be clear and obvious to overrule the on field decision. Despite multiple angles.and a stupid.amount of time it was not clear.


As for the rest of play I felt the ref was harsh on singling out Mako for early engagement everyone looked like they moving at the same time to me. Most stoppages of play were for handling errors due to a greasy ball. I don't think either side got the rub of the green as there were a few decisions that went Australia's way that were clearly wrong and I felt they played a player in the air a few times and it was not called. Us English would probably point to that had we not won. Overall I thought the offcials had a very competent game.

 

[Pom in Exile]

The funny thing about Aussies like you whinging about the ref if you cannot point to a decision and just outright say it was wrong. The decisions were correct for the most part the the usual minor stuff falling pretty evenly on both sides. Ever consider Aussies got more yellows and more disallowed tries because you guys were more frequently ignoring the laws of the game and committing more blatant cynical fouls? The fact your players also had the nerve the then get mouthy about them, it should have been further punishment.

Australia were not dominant just as Wales were not dominant in the 6N. It seems some have got it into their head that reaching parity with England is the same as dominating England. You got close to crossing our try line 2 times, we ACTUALLY crossed your 4 times. So it was in the last 10 minutes? Yeah and what? It's an 80 minute game and if you don't want to play the full 80 that's your problem. England have been strongest in the final 10 in every game they have played and every time other sides want to discredit it. The final 10 is as much a part of the game as the first 10 and it doesn't matter, however you look at it conceding 3 tries in 10 minutes is shocking.

Spot on. If you want outright incorrect decisions then calling England for a knock on in the first five minutes when it had gone backwards off an Aussie hand and England were in a great position to score a try, that is incorrect.
In terms of 50/50s who the hell knows what was happening at scrum time?

 

[Pom in Exile]

yeah but the reality is we can point to pretty much every decision and say they were wrong because they fucken were mate. Hooper yellow, where was the warning? Beale, **** off **** he tapped it up. England try, it was out. Hooper try, Koro touched it with his foot and played him onside. etc. What a load of garbage.

Literally wrong on every count, congrats.

 

[Pom in Exile]

100% this,
If it were in the premiership I wouldn't have been surprised to see Beale get a 2nd yellow for the way he spoke to the referee after getting carded.
Hooper had a lot of backchat with the referee as well, which wouldn't have stood with a firmer referee.

It was quite clear that they didn't respect the referee, perhaps because it was his debut Test match or more likely because they are enabled by their coach who has zero respect for officialdom, in fact he is a blight on the game.

 

[Pom in Exile]

How many do you win if you a) don't have all the best southern hemisphere players in club teams in England/Francce. B) actually play South Africa and New Zealand. Please mate.

Give it a rest mate, you're embarrassing yourself like a good many of your countrymen have today...anyway, chin up, the Ashes start this week.

 

[Pom in Exile]

It's annoying to lose to an Aussie coached England, but if given the option of losing all these games v knocking you lot out of your own WC, I'd still choose the latter

Ouch

 

[Pom in Exile]

I'd only be trolling if i wasn't right. Game is going the way of soccer. England will commandeer it with money and turn it into a vehicle for gambling and alcohol.

One minute a foul mouthed bogan the next a crusading Puritan, some consistency please.

 

[galumay]

This is the bit people are missing with the Hooper YC he didn't do this and England got 5 penalties awarded he committed 5 penalties during the same string of phases, when was the referee supposed to warn him, possibly the first time he yelled advantage?

I think there were only 3 (bad enough), 1 for the collapsed maul which wasnt Hooper and then 2 offsides. As I said, not wrong in the Law, but unusual to YC with no general warning. Rub of the green.

Beale sorry clear as day deliberate knock on and the second you slap down a ball in 2 on 1 situation with an outstretched hand and only get your finger tips to it the ref is likely to go for the card regardless.where you are on field.

No argument with deliberate knock on, not often a YC outside the 22. Rub of the green

Hooper offside been covered.

Yep, no try.

Robshaw tackle well considering he attempts the tackle in front of the ball carrier I'm not sure how he was offside. As he must of of retreated to be in that position. Moore clearly impede him from making a full tackle not sure how you can argue it's not obstruction.

Agreed, there did look to be some offside play from the English leading up to it, but that was missed so irrelevant.

Honestly the only thing where England got the rub of the green was whether the ball was in touch or not and as noted it had to be clear and obvious to overrule the on field decision. Despite multiple angles.and a stupid.amount of time it was not clear.

For mine that was more a case of when you have a bad day, everything goes wrong, the 50/50 calls and the bounces of the ball like that.

As for the rest of play I felt the ref was harsh on singling out Mako for early engagement everyone looked like they moving at the same time to me. Most stoppages of play were for handling errors due to a greasy ball. I don't think either side got the rub of the green as there were a few decisions that went Australia's way that were clearly wrong and I felt they played a player in the air a few times and it was not called. Us English would probably point to that had we not won. Overall I thought the offcials had a very competent game.

I dont think they were bad, a bit pedantic and 'card happy', just fell all the wrong way for the Wobblies. As I said sometimes that happens.

Given all the factors facing the Wallabies going into the game and during it, I dont think it was an outcome that will worry them much. They need to refocus and lift a gear for Scotland now, they will fancy their chances after taking the game to the AB's.

 

[Goodey]

Why is it that every time Australia lose, extra effort has to be put into explaining each and every refereeing decision?

No discussion whatsoever on the decisions that went against England in this test.

Everything that goes against Australia must be picked over with a fine tooth comb though, because that is just how their players and coaches view the game, and it has had a shocking influence on the fans. If you kick up enough of a stink, then you can convince yourself you're the victim.

Chieka storming off and the other bloke next to him shaking his head at every call regardless of circumstances is really quite telling. They're not interested in the rugby or the laws. It's just about pushing a narrative of 'ref robbed us' for the press to pick up afterward. Because that's easier.

 

[Pom in Exile]

We invented the Rugby World Cup, but it took us a long time to get three wins under our belt. it's taking England a long time to achieve world dominance but they are getting there, just not with their own homegrown players. Mako, Hartley and Ben Te'o all kiwi born.

England are not the only culprit either with France taking a lot of foreign players into their club ranks.
Ireland and Wales take some too.
It's not necessarily the country that drags the players, not yet anyway, it's the money.
The NH clubs can offer more than the Super rugby franchises, a lot more.
In many cases the NH clubs can offer more than the NZRFU can afford to play their players so off they go...
Here's the latest one

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/11/18/blacks-fury-brad-shields-defects-england/

I'm not trying to be clever but if he was that good, wouldn't he be an AB by now?
The most interesting thing in that article is Eddie saying that Chieka doesn't turn up to the ref meetings before games, explains a fair amount regarding the Wallabies discipline woes.

 

[RoosTah]

Why is it that every time Australia lose, extra effort has to be put into explaining each and every refereeing decision?

You don't read your own press when England lose I'm guessing lol

 

[galumay]

Why is it that every time Australia lose, extra effort has to be put into explaining each and every refereeing decision?

Honestly its the same for all countries, go back thru the threads and look, there is always a subset of the fans who see every loss as a conspiracy by the refs to cheat them of the game. Every game also has its share of contentious decisions that fans will want to discuss and analyse.

It's just about pushing a narrative of 'ref robbed us' for the press to pick up afterward.

Thats not altogether fair either, Cheika was pretty clear in the post match interview that he didnt want to be drawn into using refereeing as an excuse for losing the game. It was just one of those nights where the dominance for much of the game didnt translate into points.

 

[ncurd]

Honestly don't mind the Australian fans wanting to find some solace in not getting the rub of the green. Flat out denying the decisions were not correct withing the laws of the game I take exception to.

Cheika on the other hand can do one. He hit Andy Robinson levels of disrespect to the ref during the game and to demonstrate with the officials at half time. It honestly sickens me to see coaches go at the officials in that way it's not rugby. I personaĺly would like to the World Rugby take him to task over it.