[November Tests 2017 EOYT] England vs. Australia (18/11/2017)

[galumay]

Honestly don't mind the Australian fans wanting to find some solace in not getting the rub of the green. Flat out denying the decisions were not correct withing the laws of the game I take exception to.

Me too.

Cheika on the other hand can do one. He hit Andy Robinson levels of disrespect to the ref during the game and to demonstrate with the officials at half time. It honestly sickens me to see coaches go at the officials in that way it's not rugby. I personaĺly would like to the World Rugby take him to task over it.

I guess thats up to the IRU to look at, I am not privvy to what was said so I cant comment on whether it was inappropriate or not.

 

[AM_Bokke]

Why is it that every time Australia lose, extra effort has to be put into explaining each and every refereeing decision?

No discussion whatsoever on the decisions that went against England in this test.

Everything that goes against Australia must be picked over with a fine tooth comb though, because that is just how their players and coaches view the game, and it has had a shocking influence on the fans. If you kick up enough of a stink, then you can convince yourself you're the victim.

Chieka storming off and the other bloke next to him shaking his head at every call regardless of circumstances is really quite telling. They're not interested in the rugby or the laws. It's just about pushing a narrative of 'ref robbed us' for the press to pick up afterward. Because that's easier.

I agree with this comment. Rugby is kinda frustrating as a sport with refereeing decisions, but hey, that's the game.

Chieka is really, really annoying about it. Refs try hard. The laws are tough.

 

[Pom in Exile]

Honestly its the same for all countries, go back thru the threads and look, there is always a subset of the fans who see every loss as a conspiracy by the refs to cheat them of the game. Every game also has its share of contentious decisions that fans will want to discuss and analyse.



Thats not altogether fair either, Cheika was pretty clear in the post match interview that he didnt want to be drawn into using refereeing as an excuse for losing the game. It was just one of those nights where the dominance for much of the game didnt translate into points.

It's all well and good Chieka saying that he didn't want to be drawn into using refereeing as an excuse for losing the game, but if he flat out calls the officials cheats, he's going to get asked about it and perhaps he shouldn't act like a clueless fanboy everytime a decision goes against his team.

Also in terms of dominance, if you're referring to possession, I think that England had worked out fairly early on that it was one of those nights when you're actually better off without the ball.

 

[Scotty]

Well a very strange game, Australia the better team nearly all night, but a scoreboard that suggests they were thrashed. England were dire for most of the game, got one fluke of a try in the first half, against the run of play and just having their noses ahead for most of the game was enough.

Given the weather, the fact that they had two of the worlds best players missing from their team, had 2 fairly harsh YC's, just about every 50/50 decision by the refs go against them and still were in a postion to win with less than 10 minutes to go I think the Wobblies will rue what might have been and think they did pretty well despite the scoreline.

I dont think any of the refereeing decisions were outright wrong, just some were on the harsh end - Hooper's came with no general warning or other indication from the ref and all out of one passage of play. A lot of teams would be getting more YCs if that was the standard applied week in week out - but fact is nothing in that outcome is wrong or against the laws of the game. Beale's YC was also on the harsh end of the spectrum, it was a deliberate knock down, but most of the time when they happen around the middle of the field like that its only a penalty, inside the 22 is the usual area for YCs for this offence - but it has happened before and no doubt will some time again in the future.

The ball that probably scraped the touchline was probably the right call in that the Ref asked the question - from there it needed to be clear and obvious and I dont think a fair minded person would say it was that.

The decision with Moore & the obstruction was correct, its just the sort of **** that happens when you dominate a game on the field, but have everything go against you at the critical moments!

Kepu was enormous last night, Kerevi was better than I thought possible, Koribete showed why he is such a dangerous player and the forwards were great in the set pieces, lovely to see out scrum so good. Hodge & MacMahon had good games and Hooper was the usual workhorse.

Disappointing to lose a game that they should have won given their dominance, but they will know that sometimes lady luck does that to you, just got to get up and go again.

Congratulations to England, depite the lack of possession and a fairly passive game, they hung tight, made the most of a couple of little chances against the run of play and put the points on the board, they will be happy to hang on to the number 2 spot for now, albeit with a performance they know wont keep them there if not improved upon. Given the performance last week and this week, England seem to have lost their way somewhat, no doubt EJ will be working hard to get them back on track.

Beales YC was 100% a yellow, he stopped the ball going to a player in broken play. They might not of scored of he didnt knock ot on but they would have had a real chance seen as alot od the defenders were behind them.

Hoopers i can get behind it was harsh but accumulate pens add

Congrats to england on a passive game and little chances at the end? England won because england played the full 80, aus switched off and left massive gaps in behind...what do they expect when we have that pace in out back 3 and JJ. Its not our fault aus kept getting offside and our bench made an impact, while im not 100% if that ball went out or stayed in, them 7 points did nothing given the lack of cover and positioning at the end by aus.

It was a good game and both teams played well and maybe aus where ontop at times but its the scoreboard that counts and England played until the final whistle

 

[ncurd]

Yup if it's ******* down with rain you won't see a spectacle of running rugby and a lot of kicking. If you run with the ball chances are you will cough it up a lot. Which is exactly what happened and your likely to give up territory by doing so.

I don't think Aus played the conditions well at all.

 

[Scotty]

The game is now perfectly geared for England, who can't actually play rugby. They own half the worlds players, and what's left, well they just rule book them away.

Some people just dont take defeat well i guess

 

[galumay]

I guess we all see games differently, I thought Australia outplayed England for nearly all of the game, and played the conditions well.

Anyway, its irrelevant, England won on the scoreboard and certainly won the last 10 minutes!

Time to focus on next weeks game!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't think Aus played the conditions aswell as England TBH, but they did play better rugby (Outside the last 10 mins).

 

[TommiG88]

That was an interesting read.

Watching the game, I thought the ref was very consistent and the playing conditions were atrocious. It didn't help the flow of the game and England adapted better.

 

[Reiser99]

Now I know games are seen differently and yes usually a team/player would be warned first before a yellow and sometimes intentional knock ons are just a penalty, but let's go through each major incident anyway.

Hooper was offside and never got back onside, that's not debatable it's the law.
Moore stopped Robshaw making a complete tackle and it also allowed Koroibete the momentum to get over the line. Instead of a direct hit, Robshaw had to get Moore out the way and then fell back with Koroibete instead, so obstruction.
Hooper gave away cyncial penalties in the red zone and so at that point the ref does not have to warn. He knew what he was doing and it's a risk you take giving away a penalty on your try line.
Beale, well we've had this discussion elsewhere, even if he wanted to try and catch it, his speed and action meant that was never really possible, so he knew what he was doing. He also stopped an England break that was behind the Aus defence. Therefore yellow card all day long.
England's first try well as others have said from one angle I thought it was out, one angle I thought it was in. The issue was the curve of the ball made it impossible to tell. Also the ref asked if there was any clear and obvious reason not to award the try. It is harsh and while you may think it is out, no one could say with certainty. If roles were reversed, you would have said it stayed in.

 

[Nudger]

Wallabies played pretty crap generally, but bloody hell talk about not getting the rub of the green - those two no tries were 50-50s and one of England's was a clear no try. As for the yellow cards... been harping on about this for a while, but it's that sort of crap that has had me watching far more league over the past few years.

Don't here any ausies winging about launchbury being pinged for a knock on when england were walking in a try clearly touched by an Australian

Mate, i wasn't suggesting a conspiracy at all. Just asserting the fact that, for whatever reason, NZ, SA and Aus will never again have a full-strength team. Ever.

That's your selection policy your unions can pick them if they want

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I don' think Australia really dominated. They had 2 or 3 runs past some seriously poor tackling but otherwise kept getting bogged down by the english defence. I may need to check again but it seems cole is repeatedly leaving gaps in the defence.

 

[NDC89]

I don' think Australia really dominated. They had 2 or 3 runs past some seriously poor tackling but otherwise kept getting bogged down by the english defence. I may need to check again but it seems cole is repeatedly leaving gaps in the defence.

I'd need to watch again to really be sure, but it felt like Farrell was really rushing up and leaving A LOT of space on his inside, plus flying up like that he missed a fair few.

But in general I'm pretty happy with the defence actually. Australia will always make some good breaks, they always, always, always have a good backline. That Koroibete sure can run for a big lad can't he!

As has been said already, England seemed to play the conditions far better that Aus, and kept going into the last 10-15 minutes where as Aus dropped off.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

Tough to make a convincing case for reffing decisions changing the outcome of a game if you lose by 24 points, regardless of when those points were scored.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd need to watch again to really be sure, but it felt like Farrell was really rushing up and leaving A LOT of space on his inside, plus flying up like that he missed a fair few.

That's actually his role in the defence, it's the same at Sarries with their defence.
He rushes the 1st receiver to either get the big hit or force a rushed (And hopefully wrong) decision. It often doesn't look good on the stats but he's very effective at it.

 

[Hmmmmmm]

I'm not trying to be clever but if he was that good, wouldn't he be an AB by now?

Cruden was an AB. He decided to leave while still an AB.

 

[Wendigo7]

The salt is real right now.

 

[Pom in Exile]

Cruden was an AB. He decided to leave while still an AB.

My point was that I find it hard to believe that the ABs would be that dirty about him leaving and also I'd be very surprised if he's got any assurances about playing for England.

 

[valley commando]

Oz were unlucky they didn't get a fair shout from O'Keeffe, nothing really to get exited about in the England performance or indeed to be worried about as an opposition supporter.
Finally I see from the Rugby Paper, some of Englands fans have let themselves and their country down with abusive comments made to Cheika (Bloody hooray henries) these fans should be identified and never allowed into a rugby ground again

 

[Rinkadink]

Mate, i wasn't suggesting a conspiracy at all. Just asserting the fact that, for whatever reason, NZ, SA and Aus will never again have a full-strength team. Ever.

Just like England then who have had many of their best go to France who were subsequently not selected.

Yeah right. We were selecting Genia overseas and the club refused to release him last year to play you.

I love our rivalry with New Zealand and South Africa. Genuine rugby. England are the enemy of sport.

Ah yes, how dare that evil English club Stade Francai-... oh. Still, they should have released a natural born Australiarrrrrrrrgh... Papua New Guinean to play for the country of his highest offered income?

it's taking England a long time to achieve world dominance but they are getting there, just not with their own homegrown players. Mako, Hartley and Ben Te'o all kiwi born.

Another one. Even discounting the hypocrisy of SH nations doing the exact same adopting of players, I recall people talking about a young Mako playing for a tiny Westcountry combination youth side. Have you even heard the man talk? Sounds more Welsh than anything even approaching Kiwi. George is a better hooker than Hartley and should have been starting but the latter has been here for half of his days on this planet. Teo wasn't even playing yesterday.


Salt and tears are real. Whinging far worse than any poms I've seen. Take a note from some of the more humble and balanced Aussies in this thread. It's embarrassing.

*** also hello again TRF; I just found my login details after many years in the wilderness.