[November Tests 2017 EOYT] England vs. Argentina (11/11/2017)

[Wendigo7]

I thought it was a YC when I saw it, obviously the refs saw it as both contesting the ball, and on that basis their decision was correct. I think its fair to say that about 8 times out of 10 that sort of collison and timing would result in a YC, but there will always be times where some observers of the game disagree with the perception held by the referees.

My issue with it, is, should competing for the ball be a determining factor.

Mitigating in the correct circumstances but what I saw was Brown basically win uncontested and Tuculet made a half arsed attempt at the end, scragged him down and he landed on his head. Subsequently, he didn't play again and may not play against Australia.

Red Card.

 

[galumay]

Red Card.

I understand your feelings about this, but it wasnt a RC because the referees decided Tuculet was competing for the ball. The citing commissioner could still ban Tuculet if the incident is cited and he shares your perception of the incident.

 

[Scotty]

I understand your feelings about this, but it wasnt a RC because the referees decided Tuculet was competing for the ball. The citing commissioner could still ban Tuculet if the incident is cited and he shares your perception of the incident.

Competing or not if the decision is to give a card then its all about how he lands. Worthy of a card yes or no? If so how did he land. Head or shoulders red...back yellow...landed on head should have been red card because a card was given, deserved or not

 

[TRF_Olyy]

https://twitter.com/bloodandmud/status/929390432861253633

 

[The Jones Boy]

It's a shame that Brown is such an A$$hole because he had a mighty game and proved the difference between the teams launching fearless counter attacks at great pace and with vision and presence of mind.
All that and he got bounced on his head.
Perfect.
Brown is certainly worthy of the jumper. On that performance it would be hard to see any other pommie fullback or winger taking it off him when he's fit. Eddie will pick him and deservedly so.
Regarding England's performance.
First hit out for a long time I thought they were well worth their money.
They are still a points machine even when rusty. I do like Danny care, he's a livewire.
The Puma's did well and it was an enjoyable game to watch. They are a team in transition. It will take them another half a dozen seasons to bring through talent that has been hard boiled in the Super rugby and quad nation frame work.
If that is England rusty, I look forward to seeing them when they are on song.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

What are peeps thoughts on Underhill? First time I've watched him up close, seems like England have found their version of Dan Lydiate. Didn't see much of him with ball in hand or linking ability England need from a number 7.

 

[Wendigo7]

It's a shame that Brown is such an A$$hole because he had a mighty game and proved the difference between the teams launching fearless counter attacks at great pace and with vision and presence of mind.
All that and he got bounced on his head.
Perfect.
Brown is certainly worthy of the jumper. On that performance it would be hard to see any other pommie fullback or winger taking it off him when he's fit. Eddie will pick him and deservedly so.
Regarding England's performance.
First hit out for a long time I thought they were well worth their money.
They are still a points machine even when rusty. I do like Danny care, he's a livewire.
The Puma's did well and it was an enjoyable game to watch. They are a team in transition. It will take them another half a dozen seasons to bring through talent that has been hard boiled in the Super rugby and quad nation frame work.
If that is England rusty, I look forward to seeing them when they are on song.

Brown played what, 20 minutes?

Watson was the full back and he did well.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

What are peeps thoughts on Underhill? First time I've watched him up close, seems like England have found their version of Dan Lydiate. Didn't see much of him with ball in hand or linking ability England need from a number 7.

If we want a tackling machine then great but I didn't see him having much impact at the breakdown, which has been our area of weakness. We don't need to get turnovers but we do need to do something to slow opposition ball down, we are too willing to let them have easy ball from the ruck and dictate the pace of the game. Even the best defences will crumble if the opposition can consistently get quick ruck ball. The extra defender will be nullified by the speed and it would be worth making some attempt to compete. Some times that game an Argie would get isolated with 2 or 3 England defenders right next to him and they'd just let him go and stand back in defence again. The Argie either started moving forwards again or they got quick ruck ball. If nobody is there you really have no excuse for not even attempting a turnover.

We got away with it here because Argentina never tried to up the tempo. Against Aus or NZ that is a suicidal tactic.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I thought Underhill looked like a *dun dun duuunnnnnnn* 6.5.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Underhill's no slouch at the breakdown. He's nothing special there either, but I suspect that once Itoje comes back into the side he'll pick up most of that slack. Considering that up until now, Haskell's always been EJ's first choice 7, he clearly isn't too bothered about having a real breakdown 7, he's far more interested in defensive physicality which Underhill has in spades.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

What are peeps thoughts on Underhill? First time I've watched him up close, seems like England have found their version of Dan Lydiate. Didn't see much of him with ball in hand or linking ability England need from a number 7.

I like him. He seems to tackle fairly conventionally yet mange to drive the carrier back. Other areas of his game could be improved, but 7 is a position where guile and cunning at the breakdown in particular will come with experience. That was his 2nd cap; give him the shirt and let him get on with it, he could be a gem.

Hughes is getting the hang of this international lark. When Billy's fit there must be a temptation to play both with Hughes at 6. Why wouldn't we want our 2 best heavyweight carriers on from the start? The subs could be more speedy like Simmons or Clifford to take advantage of the space that should open up in the last 20.

Slade had some nice touches mixed with a couple of howlers. Would be harsh to discount him on the back of that; let's see what he can do at 13 where he's been playing excellently all season. Although it's probably not allowed, I'm questioning the value Daly brings if it's not an open game where he can use his gas. Yesterday we had 3 13s in our back line; possibly unsurprising it wasn't brilliant.

Bar one awful pass, everything Watson did had a touch of class. Brown's injury may open the way for him to get an extended run there.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hughes is getting the hang of this international lark. When Billy's fit there must be a temptation to play both with Hughes at 6. Why wouldn't we want our 2 best heavyweight carriers on from the start?

You'd lose one of lawes/Itoje, both of whom are far better than Hughes, And you'd hamper the lineout too.

 

[ratsapprentice]

If you watched Underhill play for the Ospreys, you'll know he can carry fine, and has good enough footballing ability to be a decent link man.

He's clearly been told to literally just tackle, and save his energy for tackling, IMO.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The laws cater for 6.5 more now so it makes sense to have a 6.5 like Underhill in the team.

 

[The Jones Boy]

He's a kid, he will develop further and grow into his role. I expect he will be a lot like Neil back in the years to come and he was a massive servant to the English 2003 RWC team.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Brown played what, 20 minutes?

He made an awesome try in the first half for Francis, and then he made a try for Danny Care at the 55minute mark.
What game were you watching?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He made an awesome try in the first half for Francis, and then he made a try for Danny Care at the 55minute mark.
What game were you watching?

One that happened 5months after the one you're on about

 

[Wendigo7]

He made an awesome try in the first half for Francis, and then he made a try for Danny Care at the 55minute mark.
What game were you watching?

I feel like you are 5 months behind.

Lol.

 

[Scotty]

Underhill is a machine, i didnt see him put in a soft tackle. Has earned his shirt IMO and he is good over the ball but dodnt see alot of it yesterday, carrying he is ok but needs to take a leaf out of lawes book he has improved massivly, id say after yesterday he is the first choice 7 against aussies on merit

His jackling and carrying need to improve but i dont think he is anywhere near his ceiling. And at 21 i think he will improve quickly over the next year. In EJ we trust to get him to where he needs to be for 2019 haha

 

[NDC89]

Underhill is a machine, i didnt see him put in a soft tackle. Has earned his shirt IMO and he is good over the ball but dodnt see alot of it yesterday, carrying he is ok but needs to take a leaf out of lawes book he has improved massivly, id say after yesterday he is the first choice 7 against aussies on merit

His jackling and carrying need to improve but i dont think he is anywhere near his ceiling. And at 21 i think he will improve quickly over the next year. In EJ we trust to get him to where he needs to be for 2019 haha

Defensive machine, still a lot of work in attack to do, but hey... he is young!

Between him and the Currys we have options going forward in the future. When was the last time we could say that as England fans?