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[November Tests 2017 EOYT] England vs. Argentina (11/11/2017)

You are right but at the end of the day if you're dropping one of Ford, Faz or JJ out of that midfield it's a no contest. Te'o at 13 may even open up some space on the inside for Ford to readopt his running game.
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Of those 3 I would drop Farrell though.

Ford gives us our attacking shape, we would be really dull and one-dimensional with Faz at 10. JJ is pretty vital to our defence, and adds much needed pace to the midfield.
 
JJ hasn't exactly added much pace for England though.

Not sure why people think out of Ford, Faz and JJ that Faz is the least talented.
 
JJ hasn't exactly added much pace for England though.

Not sure why people think out of Ford, Faz and JJ that Faz is the least talented.
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Not particuarly big or powerful, pace of snail and average passing game really.

Good kicker, fantastic attitude and seems to get people gee'd up around him. Solid defender. I would say Farrell plays above his natural talents, but he has a good head on him for the game.
 
Nudger said:
And at some time I want to see Loz at 10
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Loz shouldnt get a start at 10 for england when faz and ford are fit. Sarries play so much better with faz at 10, loz is great and deserves to be there but at 10 not his position for england.


Slade has the attributes for 12, hes a good runner, second play maker and normally very accurate but he hasnt really fired at 12, he is a 13, just needs to do better under pressure as he has in prem semi and finals.

Ford
Faz
JJ

22. Loz

On there best day loz vs slade is a tough one for me
 
QUOTE="Tigs Man, post: 878766, member: 70842"] Not sure why people think out of Ford, Faz and JJ that Faz is the least talented.[/QUOTE]

because people have differ opinions shockingly enough

Fazlet has becme a perfectly good international player, but Ford and JJ are something special
 
Someone should remind JJ then, cause he's done bugger all for a while now...

I'm a huge fan of his, when he's on form, but to suggest he'd undroppable is wild. We should be actively searching for an alternate, because he's out of form and we've no one else (bar an injured Te'o, whose game would change our attack style a lot anyway).
 
Exactly when was the last time he did something special?
Faz meanwhile played a key role in the Lions series that drew NZ.

I get he is a Bath player but he hasn't done anything particularly special in a while.
 
Which Tyler said:
QUOTE="Tigs Man, post: 878766, member: 70842"] Not sure why people think out of Ford, Faz and JJ that Faz is the least talented.
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because people have differ opinions shockingly enough

Fazlet has becme a perfectly good international player, but Ford and JJ are something special[/QUOTE]

JJ hasn't been anything special since the 2015 6 Nations. Since then he's had moments of speciality but he is not a "special" player, nothing about him is "special," other than his eye for an intercept.

Faz is world class. Obviously his kicking is his main asset but I don't see why people say that as if it's a bad thing, it is what wins us games. This England side doesn't have any game breakers, it relies on being able to suffocate other sides through strong defence, penalties and kicking, all of which Farrell absolutely epitomises.

Beyond that, saying that his passing is average is just not true, his right to left pass is every bit as good as Ford's, if not better. And the "pace of a snail," again, not true. As far as international 12s go he's certainly no worse than average.

For the Argentina game EJ clearly rested who he believes to be our strongest forward and our strongest back. Faz hasn't earnt that respect from him for no reason, he is the glue of this England side.
 
JJ hasn't been anything special since the 2015 6 Nations. Since then he's had moments of speciality but he is not a "special" player, nothing about him is "special," other than his eye for an intercept.

Faz is world class. Obviously his kicking is his main asset but I don't see why people say that as if it's a bad thing, it is what wins us games. This England side doesn't have any game breakers, it relies on being able to suffocate other sides through strong defence, penalties and kicking, all of which Farrell absolutely epitomises.

Beyond that, saying that his passing is average is just not true, his right to left pass is every bit as good as Ford's, if not better. And the "pace of a snail," again, not true. As far as international 12s go he's certainly no worse than average.

For the Argentina game EJ clearly rested who he believes to be our strongest forward and our strongest back. Faz hasn't earnt that respect from him for no reason, he is the glue of this England side.
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Agree to disagree. Clear memories of him making a break in Oz for the Lions in 2013 and being chased down very easily. By a forward if memory serves.
 
Sam simmonds...did he get a carry or do anything? (Right or wrong)
 
I think whoever we play at 13 will struggle because we haven't yet developed part of our game to get defences from drifting, except in the Scotland game where we executed it brilliantly. It should be no surprise that the game where we actually had dummy runners and deception to keep the defence guessing, JJ was able to tear through them repeatedly. As it is England never use forwards running off 10 or 12 to offer a credible threat and stop the defence drifting and then gang tackling the first player who straightens. Our forwards always operate crashball off 9 or 10 so if a forward gets a ball, you know they are just going to crash and recycle. If a back gets a ball, it's going to go sideways and try to get round on the wing.

I like Youngs' ability to vary the game and I think he works well with Ford but damn when is he going to learn to fire out a pass from a ruck without slowing it down?
 
Honestly to me ford faz...jj/slade/even teo.
What ever combo the 2 playmaker then england needs a dominant pack.

We are solid in defence not saying cant be improved but saying good systems and not alot gets through. We are only dangerous in the backs if we get quick ball. Exception being if slade gets his form at 13( play maker 13 essentially) giving quick accurate ball to the back 3, prob his he seemed to lack that ability underpressure. Hope that is due to it being first cap in a while and still new to him and not how he is, forcing things that come natural when the pressure is on. Though did not drop any or many tackles and didnt do bad carrying ( hes no teo but still). Just the acuracy of his passes. Though he put roko in. But cpuple of uncharacteristic shockers. One of my fave players ( as a chiefs fan) but still has to earn his place even to me and right now hes no closer but no further away. Had an ok game but lacked the composure nèeded.

Bench him and bring him on at 13 against somoa at 40 min. Not sure about aus
 
scotty507 said:
Competing or not if the decision is to give a card then its all about how he lands. Worthy of a card yes or no? If so how did he land. Head or shoulders red...back yellow...landed on head should have been red card because a card was given, deserved or not
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You are correct, for some reason I had forgotten that he DID get a YC, as you say, lands on head or neck, RC.
 
TobyBeastTeague said:
It was noticeable while he was on that he was very active but I didn't realise he was 9 tackles in 10 minutes active.
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Aye, very impressive.
Hughes made 9 all game, and Robshaw 11.
Williams made 10 in the time he was on, compared to Cole's 6. George 12 to Hartley's 5.
 
Tigs Man said:
it's hard to judge on tackles, Argentina made alot more carries in the final 15 mins compared to the rest of the game.
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This, I don't think England touched the ball in the final 10 and not much in the final 15 so it would have skewed the stats a lot.
 
Cruz_del_Sur said:
No. If it is consideted a fair challenge it does not matter how he lands.
Bofelli had eyes on the ball all the time and had a hand on the ball while they were both with the feet off the ground. If that is not a fair challenge i dont know what is (add the fact he was kinda blocked a sec before he was about to jump)
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you're right that him being blocked prevented him having a fair challenge

the line of thinking being distributed is that it wasn't a genuine contest since brown beat him to the ball and was higher so it's brown ball

the fact that he was then pulled down and landed on his head means that a red would have been appropiate

what i see is a dude going for the ball and getting arm instead of ball and the other guy landing in a bad spot

for me cards should be used to correct and prevent behavior... what behavior are we preventing by red carding this player, i don't think there is one
 

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