New Zealand v Wales - Saturday 26 June 2010 - Hamilton

[dullonien]

Yeh, I agree. At the beginning of last season (and all of last) Gareth Williams was putting in some great performances for the Blues. I remember a few matches where his covering work was fantastic, acting more like a covering scrumhalf than a hooker. Unfortunately, he just didn't perform when he got his shot with Wales, although as Cymro said, it was a little late in coming. Ken Owens was also in fine form at the beggining of the season. Those two were the standouts in a period where Rees was injured. Bennett is and always has been rubbish, infact I think Steve Jones at the Dragons is a better hooker, as is Hibbard when fit.

Cymro, your point about conditioning makes sense. I feel a similar thing happened two years ago v SA where we got blown away in the first test. We were much more competative in the second one though, any chance of that happening this Saturday?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Yeh, I agree. At the beginning of last season (and all of last) Gareth Williams was putting in some great performances for the Blues. I remember a few matches where his covering work was fantastic, acting more like a covering scrumhalf than a hooker. Unfortunately, he just didn't perform when he got his shot with Wales, although as Cymro said, it was a little late in coming. Ken Owens was also in fine form at the beggining of the season. Those two were the standouts in a period where Rees was injured. Bennett is and always has been rubbish, infact I think Steve Jones at the Dragons is a better hooker, as is Hibbard when fit.

Cymro, your point about conditioning makes sense. I feel a similar thing happened two years ago v SA where we got blown away in the first test. We were much more competative in the second one though, any chance of that happening this Saturday?

Well it all depends really on the work they have been doing at training. Im not quite sure how Wales will play. Id expect them to at least compete for 80 mins rather than 60-70mins they did last week. The All Blacks have so much fire power and with Wales injury woes its difficult to see anything really happening in Wales favor. But saying that players are there to step up. I still believe that Stanley is not all that he is hyped up to be, I know his form for the Blues has been outstanding this S14 season but he has yet to make the impact at international level. For me Wales have to attack the All Black centers Saturday, especially with Conrad Smith not there. However the problem lies with Wales not really having anyone to create or shape the backs in the center. Both Davies and Roberts are similar and offer little creativity so will be interesting to see what happens. If we play like we did in the first test then I do see NZ just picking part our game plan again.

 

[Draggs]

Cymro, I have no bias against the Blues, nor against any club, and I am not trying to come off in that way.
I was not able to see Gareth Williams when he was in form for the Blues, so I spoke without knowing.
Regarding this year and the selections, I believe that starting certain players, even after we saw that they were unable to perform as expected, comes down to Gatland's choice.

It seemed that Gareth Williams simply had trouble transitioning from club to international level rugby, as quite a few players do.

The NH and SH approach rugby very differently. With the Magners, Premiership, and Heineken Cup running from September to May, and having internationals in November, June and from February to March, many of our players are getting overworked and consequently injured. The SH have the S14's run from January to May, internationals in June, dispersed throughout the summer and a few in November.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Cymro, I have no bias against the Blues, nor against any club, and I am not trying to come off in that way.
I was not able to see Gareth Williams when he was in form for the Blues, so I spoke without knowing.
Regarding this year and the selections, I believe that starting certain players, even after we saw that they were unable to perform as expected, comes down to Gatland's choice.

It seemed that Gareth Williams simply had trouble transitioning from club to international level rugby, as quite a few players do.

The NH and SH approach rugby very differently. With the Magners, Premiership, and Heineken Cup running from September to May, and having internationals in November, June and from February to March, many of our players are getting overworked and consequently injured. The SH have the S14's run from January to May, internationals in June, dispersed throughout the summer and a few in November.

When Wales will look at Gatland's reign as Wales coach one of the things that will be debated will be his team selections. Often feel Gatland's team selection have often been wrong. In the 6 Nations / Autumn Internationals (can't remember which) he selected a bench which he never used, showing he had no faith in the bench in the ability to change the game. I was at the game in Cardiff and I felt annoyed because it to me sent a message that he did not rate the players on the bench so why have them there. Its remarkable that Huw Bennett still gets his chance in the Wales squad, his lineout throwing is weak, his tight play is not great and is loose play is what he bases him self upon. For me I look at what Henry selects for the All Blacks, when he selects either Hore or Mealamu he knows whats he is going to get, a good lineout and scrummaging hooker who works the tight play well and whatever he gets in the loose is a bonus. Mathew Rees on the Lions Tour came out a better players, he does all this for Wales as what the NZ hookers do. I feel Ken Owens does the same but his game is more loose than tight. When Hibbard is fit then he should be considered as Wales No. 3. Bennett at best is the 4th best hooker and its about Gatland and McBryde sees this.

 

[Draggs]

I wish I could understand Gatland's selection process- he often picks the same players in the squad, yet is not afraid to try some older players with less international experience (Deiniol, Gareth Williams) but seems to ignore some younger players. I was supportive of his choice to play Deiniol and Gareth this year, and to give them a chance internationally. When it didn't pan out, he should have just dropped it, but instead kept picking them.

His negligence of players outside of Wales is aggravating; Gareth Delve has been in great for lately, but only saw two games. With our thinness in the back row right now, it would be a great opportunity to bring Gareth back into the Wales squad, but instead he is still messing around with Jonathan Thomas. We can't forget Michael Owen, who seems to have been in form with the Saracens, until his injury.

 

[Dizzy]

I predict All Blacks to win 20+

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Wales: Lee Byrne (Ospreys); Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues), Tom Prydie (Ospreys); Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Ospreys); Paul James (Ospreys), Matthew Rees (Scarlets), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Cardiff Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Jonathan Thomas (Ospreys), Gavin Thomas (Newport Gwent Dragons), Ryan Jones (capt, Ospreys).
Replacements: Huw Bennett (Ospreys), Craig Mitchell (Ospreys), Deiniol Jones (Cardiff Blues), Rob McCusker (Scarlets), Richie Rees (Cardiff Blues), Stephen Jones (Scarlets), Will Harries (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Well Gatland is still being stubborn about not selecting the likes of Ian Gough and Ken Owens. Not starting Will Harries also is a little silly, the man has been a revelation for the Dragons this season. I think Gatland has got this team selection wrong.

 

[dullonien]

I think the starting team is almost right. As I said, I would have started Harries, but understand why Gatland has stuck by Prydie. It's the bench that I don't get. As you said Cymro, Ken Owens and Ian Gough should be there instead of Bennett and Deiniol. It's those two selections that I find most baffling, with neither providing any impact.

 

[cyRil]

We've capped some rubbish players over the years, Deiniol Jones is the worst in a long while.

 

[MichaelBoard]

I don't care whos starting for us on Saturday, aslong as they give 110% and really pressurise New Zealand and give a good account of themselves I'll be happy.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

We've capped some rubbish players over the years, Deiniol Jones is the worst in a long while.

In recent times yes, but when he was on fire for Bridgend he was often overlooked, now he is just a lineout jumper and nothing more.

 

[cyRil]

In recent times yes, but when he was on fire for Bridgend he was often overlooked, now he is just a lineout jumper and nothing more.

His selection is based on his lineout stats from the Heineken Cup about 3 years ago, when he was the most effective jumper. He is there solely to win lineout ball. In the SA game we threw to him once, he dropped it, and he wasn't used again for the rest of the match. He does bugger all everywhere else, so we effectively played with 14 men...
Gatland spins me out.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

His selection is based on his lineout stats from the Heineken Cup about 3 years ago, when he was the most effective jumper. He is there solely to win lineout ball. In the SA game we threw to him once, he dropped it, and he wasn't used again for the rest of the match. He does bugger all everywhere else, so we effectively played with 14 men...
Gatland spins me out.

Im not defending Deiniol at all, just pointing out when he was on fire with Bridgend and at the start of the Celtic Warriors he never really had a look in.

 

[cyRil]

Im not defending Deiniol at all, just pointing out when he was on fire with Bridgend and at the start of the Celtic Warriors he never really had a look in.

Fair enough, that would be down to Steve Hansen though right? Who preferred....... Gareth Llewellyn and Steve Williams? Is that right? Can't really remember, but I'm sure they played in the '03 season. Then replaced with Sidoli and Cockbain who, tbf, were the starting second row partnership at the Warriors, ahead of Jones?
My memory is hazy so I don't pretend to know an awful lot here.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Fair enough, that would be down to Steve Hansen though right? Who preferred....... Gareth Llewellyn and Steve Williams? Is that right? Can't really remember, but I'm sure they played in the '03 season. Then replaced with Sidoli and Cockbain who, tbf, were the starting second row partnership at the Warriors, ahead of Jones?
My memory is hazy so I don't pretend to know an awful lot here.

Correct. Chris Wyatt was also round ... Jones was pretty much the better player than Sidoli but was often criticised for just being one dimensional as he is now.

 

[dullonien]

Steve Williams? Honestly Jon't remember this player, hmm. I'd have preferred Ian Evans in the squad to see if he could get some kinda form back as he's exactly the kinda player Wales needs at the moment, aggressive and good in the lineout. Evan if he didn't play, and was just back involved in the squad would have been good. He's sure taking his time recovering from the two injuries he's suffered, hope he doesn't just dissapear like some players do after serious injury, or take years to recover form as Dafydd Jones did.

 

[cyRil]

Steve Williams? Honestly Jon't remember this player, hmm. I'd have preferred Ian Evans in the squad to see if he could get some kinda form back as he's exactly the kinda player Wales needs at the moment, aggressive and good in the lineout. Evan if he didn't play, and was just back involved in the squad would have been good. He's sure taking his time recovering from the two injuries he's suffered, hope he doesn't just dissapear like some players do after serious injury, or take years to recover form as Dafydd Jones did.

Steve Williams played a few times in the late 90s, and was brought back into the squad with Jonathan Humphries in the 2003 crisis. He played for Neath, Cardiff and I think he was at London Irish in 2003? And I thought he was brilliant.

 

[Draggs]

I am not too sure about starting Prydie. His defence is still weak. I know you don't have a winger for defence, but I didn't see Tom actually complete a tackle last week.
His ball clearing also led directly to a try, which makes me doubt him more. Still, I suppose we might as well give him another chance.

Why either Gavin or Jonathan Thomas were picked again I have no clue. They did hardly anything during the game last week. McCusker should have started in one of their places.

The bench is at least slightly stronger than last week, save for John Yapps replacement. That being said, I will be glad to see Craig playing against some bigger international opponents. Having Richie Rees on the bench over Tavis Knoyle makes sense- Richie does offer more experience (if only slightly) and played very well in the 6N when he was basically thrust into it. He has also been on form for the Blues and really has earned his spot. Glad to see Will on the bench, I can imagine we will see him on with ten to go (unless we hang in somehow). He has been exciting to watch this year and is certainly in contention for Shane spot in a few years.

I look forward to having Ian Evans back, we really could do with a bit more competition in the second row, Charteris just seems unable to step it up when he plays for Wales.

As far as lineouts go, we have more problems than a single jumper. All of the Welsh Magners club have the same problems with lineouts it seems- they really just have no idea what to do.

Brent and Rob were a good second row partnership, for the Warrior and Wales- they started together for every match of the 2005 6N. Ian Gough was in his prime around that time, and it was a shame that he didn't play then.

 

[SelimNiai]

We've capped some rubbish players over the years, Deiniol Jones is the worst in a long while.

I probably wouldn't go that far but I agree that Deniol still being picked is wrong. Evans is a better bet

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Steve Williams played a few times in the late 90s, and was brought back into the squad with Jonathan Humphries in the 2003 crisis. He played for Neath, Cardiff and I think he was at London Irish in 2003? And I thought he was brilliant.

Don't forget Northampton also.