New Zealand 66 vs Ireland 28 FT

[Iron Mike]

I did add in the Lions caps, I also added in the 3 caps for Sivivatu from the Pacific Islanders. Didn't know about Ryan being capped, I took my statistics from wiki and scrum.com, according to them, he isn't.

 

[Feicarsinn]

He's definitely been capped at least once. I seem to remember him playing a part last autumn (perhaps the once before)

 

[rugbywriter]

Cowan better then du Preez? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Iron Mike]

The one cap doesn't really change things. Does 1 cap really mean that much to you? There is 51 caps between them, 50 if you want to include that cap you seem to think is real, but I can't find any evidence of. Both teams have injury problems, both have still very good teams, should be an exciting match. Don't make excuses before the game has even begun.

 

[durbutter]

You're missing the point; AB's have the ability to replace front line players, Ireland don't.

Also they're not two good teams. Ireland have a crap front five and will struggle to get possession.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Just because they don't have as many caps doesn't mean they're any less important. Most of them have pretty few caps because as I'm sure you know, Ireland under Eddie O'Sullivan played the same XV over and over and over and over. Anyway, our main problem is that the injuries are concentrated on only a few positions, most notably blindside flanker and second row.

 

[Iron Mike]

You're missing the point; AB's have the ability to replace front line players, Ireland don't.

Also they're not two good teams. Ireland have a crap front five and will struggle to get possession.

But at the end of the day, that is no ones fault but Ireland. I think 6 test debutants is enough to show that this is not a full strength side. The All Blacks attacking platform is gone, now that Nonu is injured, he creates a lot of space for other players as teams tend to target him. The front row is pretty weak, Andrew Hore is on par with William Servat for the best hooker in the world, Ali Williams is also one of the best locks in the world. Of course these positions are crucial, they can't just ''replace them''.

Both are weakened sides, you can't deny that. Making excuses has made me lose a lot of respect for the Irish / Irish fans, you obviously don't have much confidence in your team and kick off hasn't even begun.

This is an All Blacks B team, just like it is an Ireland B team.

 

[durbutter]

Some may call them excuses, i prefer to think of it as putting the massive challenge into context

 

[Iron Mike]

Well, with all this talk of Ireland winning the world cup and being the best in Europe, being the most in form team of the world, as soon as Ireland loses a few players, boom, the confidence is gone. South Africa, Australia and New Zealand have all lost key players but they can continue to play well and produce exciting performances. That is the making of a brilliant team, England had it in 2003 when they won the world cup and no one is going to win anything without depth, because you can't play the same 15 for 10 years straight, your game plan would be so easily exposed because it would be so over done.

Donncha Ryan has 5 caps, sorry I missed that.

 

[munstermuffin]

Donnacha Ryan made his debut bs Argentina last autumn and I forget if he toured USA and well Iron Mike your sources are wrong because Luke Fitzgearld has sure more than 13 caps when you include Lions.
But as point is already made basically Ireland don't have strength in depht as others have

 

[Iron Mike]

Donnacha Ryan made his debut bs Argentina last autumn and I forget if he toured USA and well Iron Mike your sources are wrong because Luke Fitzgearld has sure more than 13 caps when you include Lions.
But as point is already made basically Ireland don't have strength in depht as others have

And as I've said, they aren't a very good team then, without depth you are nothing.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

Iron Mike, your statistics are entirely redundant and unreflective of the strength of the absent players. Stephen Ferris only has 16 caps, Ryan Jones has 39, does this make Ryan Jones a better blindside flanker?

And Ireland may not have as good strength in depth as New Zealand but calling them a bad team is ridiculous. By that logic everyone outside the tri nations is a bad team.

 

[Conal]

but darcy you will probaly find that lots of sh supporters think that anyway

 

[Feicarsinn]

Well, with all this talk of Ireland winning the world cup and being the best in Europe, being the most in form team of the world, as soon as Ireland loses a few players, boom, the confidence is gone. South Africa, Australia and New Zealand have all lost key players but they can continue to play well and produce exciting performances. That is the making of a brilliant team, England had it in 2003 when they won the world cup and no one is going to win anything without depth, because you can't play the same 15 for 10 years straight, your game plan would be so easily exposed because it would be so over done.

Donncha Ryan has 5 caps, sorry I missed that.

Pfff that was last year, get with the times. France are the best team in Europe at the moment, now there's a team with great strength in depth. And in responce to your earlier post, it's not anyone's fault that we don't have the same strength in depth as you, it's just a fact of life, unfortunately.

Finally, why can't we get our excuses in good and early? As I've said before, it comforts us i our time of suffering.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

The way I see it the real winner is the man who predicts his defeat before the game's even happened

 

[Feicarsinn]

Decland Kidney has been sighted around the bookies quite alot lately apparently.

 

[veux]

Saying you have a weakened squad is no excuse imo, if your country can't produce more than 22 quality players it's a **** country and you can't call yourself a good team - the strength of a country or indeed any team isn't exclusively reliant on their 1st XV

 

[Iron Mike]

No, look at France, they lost Imanol Harinordoquy, William Servat and Mathieu Bastareaud to name a few. England have pretty good depth aswell and so does Wales.

But I see what you are saying, caps don't mean much really. That is the case for the All Blacks aswell,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-6F3XplTWE go to the 5:50 mark and you will see how bloody strong Isia Toeava is and how much New Zealand does need him.

Watch that video, its a bit long but it shows the strength of the All Blacks ''B'' side, with Richard Kahui and Isia Toeava specifically, who are amazing players who don't have many caps.

Don't forget this is also after having a massive amount of New Zealanders move overseas, the likes of Ti'i Paulo who was the Super 14's best attacking hooker, Dan Bowden and Tamati Ellison.

And lets not forget losing the best wing in the world either,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjYT9yhkMLQ

 

[Feicarsinn]

Wales and England don't have great strength in depth. Eangland don't have great strength in their first team IMO. Our main problem, as I've mentioned and people seem to be ignoring, is that all of our injuries are focused on a few key positions. For exapmle 3 wingers gone, 4 6's gone and 4 second rows gone. I When you only have 4 pro teams missing 4 players in one position puts you under pressure.

 

[veux]

No, look at France, they lost Imanol Harinordoquy, William Servat and Mathieu Bastareaud to name a few. England have pretty good depth aswell and so does Wales.

But I see what you are saying, caps don't mean much really. That is the case for the All Blacks aswell,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-6F3XplTWE go to the 5:50 mark and you will see how bloody strong Isia Toeava is and how much New Zealand does need him.

Watch that video, its a bit long but it shows the strength of the All Blacks ''B'' side, with Richard Kahui and Isia Toeava specifically, who are amazing players who don't have many caps.

Don't forget this is also after having a massive amount of New Zealanders move overseas, the likes of Ti'i Paulo who was the Super 14's best attacking hooker, Dan Bowden and Tamati Ellison.

And lets not forget losing the best wing in the world either,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjYT9yhkMLQ

How did you loose the guy in the youtube vid, wiki doesn't say much.