Ireland v New Zealand

[Darwin]

I don't understand the love for Gear, particularly in this latest game. He almost muffed a try, and he was non-existent for many parts of the game - how can you rate his performance about Smith and Nonu's? What was so great about it, I ask.

I'm not a huge Gear fan, however I thought he had a very good game. He looked dangerous whenever he got the ball, however two things that Gear did really stood out to me - one was when he ripped the ball free from an attacking player causing a turn-over, while the other was when he ran back to recover a loose ball, then easily got past two would be tacklers to put NZ on the front foot. I do agree that he can go missing at times, however he's been far more impressive that any other left wing the AB's have used this year.

 

[markshaw]

I'm not a huge Gear fan, however I thought he had a very good game. He looked dangerous whenever he got the ball, however two things that Gear did really stood out to me - one was when he ripped the ball free from an attacking player causing a turn-over, while the other was when he ran back to recover a loose ball, then easily got past two would be tacklers to put NZ on the front foot. I do agree that he can go missing at times, however he's been far more impressive that any other left wing the AB's have used this year.

at Invictus..: Bro he didnt almost muff it. The defence where pushing him and Whitelock out side him to the touch line (I wouldnt throw Whitelock the ball to try and finish in the corner against the back 3). Much safer to give the ball back to McCaw

 

[nickdnz]

I don't understand the love for Gear, particularly in this latest game. He almost muffed a try, and he was non-existent for many parts of the game - how can you rate his performance about Smith and Nonu's? What was so great about it, I ask.

He has scored three tries from his last three matches, he's broken the line almost every time he gets the ball, and his work rate was very solid, his work off the ball in this game was better than his work on it. His defence was also very good, and the fact that he was up against another class winger in Tommy Bowe is credit to how effective he is. He's brilliant. Can't see how anyone can rate Stephen Donald but not Hosea Gear.

we need Tialatas scrumaging back

No. No we certainly do not. He's rubbish in every aspect of his game, and I say that as a Wellingtonian. Short of being the fattest All Black ever, he's useless.

 

[woodward]

Yes England is the only team, your right but their defence wasn't good, at all.

Sorry Cooky but I said who haven't we scored 4 tries in a game against this year and the only team is England.

 

[smartcooky]

Sorry Cooky but I said who haven't we scored 4 tries in a game against this year and the only team is England.

OK, my bad. I see what you mean now.

I didn't think you would make a simple mistake like that.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

He has scored three tries from his last three matches, he's broken the line almost every time he gets the ball, and his work rate was very solid, his work off the ball in this game was better than his work on it. His defence was also very good, and the fact that he was up against another class winger in Tommy Bowe is credit to how effective he is. He's brilliant. Can't see how anyone can rate Stephen Donald but not Hosea Gear.

How many times did he get the ball in this game...?

 

[azeli]

He has scored three tries from his last three matches, he's broken the line almost every time he gets the ball, and his work rate was very solid, his work off the ball in this game was better than his work on it. His defence was also very good, and the fact that he was up against another class winger in Tommy Bowe is credit to how effective he is. He's brilliant. Can't see how anyone can rate Stephen Donald but not Hosea Gear.



No. No we certainly do not. He's rubbish in every aspect of his game, and I say that as a Wellingtonian. Short of being the fattest All Black ever, he's useless.

Agreed!!! Tialata is overated!! Big for nothing...

 

[Jer1cho]

So, Ireland play one of their best games of the year, and all New Zealand have to do to beat them by 20 points, is play patches of good rugby here and there... All Blacks are in another league to everyone else at the moment.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

So, Ireland play one of their best games of the year, and all New Zealand have to do to beat them by 20 points, is play patches of good rugby here and there... All Blacks are in another league to everyone else at the moment.

Yep pretty much...

 

[Darwin]

How many times did he get the ball in this game...?

According to the stats on scrum.com (http://www.espnscrum.com/new-zealand-tour-2010/rugby/match/104320.html) he got the ball 12 times - exactly the same number of times as the other wing (Cory Jane). He lead the team in defenders beaten (4), ahead of Jane (3), and Muliaina (2). He was also second in total metres gained (88), behind only Muliaina (111).

 

[Larksea]

there maybe times where Tialata's scrumaging may be a bit better than Owen's but Owens so much better in every other aspect of the game it becomes a no contest IMO.

As for gear his workrate is pretty low compared to what we are used to in the AB's with the likes of Sivi, Roks, Guildford and Even much worse than Kahui & Ranger who have had a bit of gametime there this year.

But he just has a habit of pulling off x-factor plays. Guildford would be the total opposite, his workrate is through the roof - it's astonishing how much he gets involved in the game for a wing. He seems to follow the ball around everywhere and yet he always seems to be on the spot at the back when a kick needs cleaning up or a tackle needs to be made and for the amount of work he does errors are few and far between.

But at the same time guildford seems to lack the cutting edge ability to bust the line or beat players on the outside that Gear has.

That's why Sivivatu is the best wing in the world when he's in good form - workrate like Guildford and still awesome at breaking the line and creating something from nothing.

I'd still rather have Kahui or Dagg playing on that wing than Gear but he's doing a good job and creating more on attack than Roks has been able to produce.

 

[TRF_woosaah]

Just speculating but do you think that first 20 minutes and that first half where Ireland defended and played accordingly to the pace of the game, do you think that might have drained Ireland and thats why their 2nd half performance wasnt as good as their first half?...

yes i agree there, but I also think that if NZ actually spent a bit more time trying to bring in their forwards I think they could have broken the line more often than what they did, and still the pace would have been great. Just woudl have given some more go forward rather than left no no, right, no no they stopped us... left again

but hey, i am not coach, or a payer for that matter

 

[nickdnz]

yes i agree there, but I also think that if NZ actually spent a bit more time trying to bring in their forwards I think they could have broken the line more often than what they did, and still the pace would have been great. Just woudl have given some more go forward rather than left no no, right, no no they stopped us... left again

but hey, i am not coach, or a payer for that matter

A lot of what you're talking about I agree with. The All Blacks should really be earning the right to go out wide, with forward dominance sucking in the other-wise wide defenders, to create space for the backs. However because out backline has so many good players, we seem to be in the habbit of giving the ball to our wingers and hope they make something out of it. If we played a bit more of a forwards game, to suck in the defenders, we'd have more space for our back to do their magic.

 

[Larksea]

no I think the AB's are smarter than that. When they are controling the game they are not going to get into a bashfest with the forwards. They are going to move the ball around and from side to side to test the opositon's fitness get them involved and moving around. It may not pay off straight away but come the last 20min it usally does. Legs turn to jelly, mistakes get made and holes appear AB's score quick trys and take the game away.

 

[gmoe]

He has scored three tries from his last three matches, he's broken the line almost every time he gets the ball, and his work rate was very solid, his work off the ball in this game was better than his work on it. His defence was also very good, and the fact that he was up against another class winger in Tommy Bowe is credit to how effective he is. He's brilliant. Can't see how anyone can rate Stephen Donald but not Hosea Gear.



No. No we certainly do not. He's rubbish in every aspect of his game, and I say that as a Wellingtonian. Short of being the fattest All Black ever, he's useless.

Tialata has no mongrel about him, thats also what hinders Toeava from being an effective AB. Unless he can find the aggression like Kaino, Mealamu and Nonu find, I doubt that he will be back in the AB's side again.

 

[Darwin]

no I think the AB's are smarter than that. When they are controling the game they are not going to get into a bashfest with the forwards. They are going to move the ball around and from side to side to test the opositon's fitness get them involved and moving around. It may not pay off straight away but come the last 20min it usally does. Legs turn to jelly, mistakes get made and holes appear AB's score quick trys and take the game away.

I don't understand how continuously running from side to side is smart rugby. I think nickdnz and woosaah are right on the money - if the AB's had hit it up much closer to the rucks there would have been much more room outside, as defenders would have had to stay a bit closer to the ruck rather than just fanning out wide. I'm not suggesting that they should have keep it entirely in the forwards, rather they should have established go forward ball to suck in the defenders, then spun it out to the backs while the Irish defenders were on the back foot. If spinning it continuously from side to side was a tactic to tire out the Irish defenders it failed, as Ireland looked arguably the stronger team in the last 15-20 mins....

 

[Sam Owen]

no I think the AB's are smarter than that. When they are controling the game they are not going to get into a bashfest with the forwards. They are going to move the ball around and from side to side to test the opositon's fitness get them involved and moving around. It may not pay off straight away but come the last 20min it usally does. Legs turn to jelly, mistakes get made and holes appear AB's score quick trys and take the game away.

LOL why do you have to start your disagreeing post like that Larky?...

I know what nick is talking about though and its probably every teams game plan. The old subtraction if you will where a forward goes up and hopes to make good yards and being a handful at the same time, carrying 2 or 3 defenders with him and then when he goes down then shift it out one to another forward and another similar hit up. These 2 forward hit ups/drives will subtract would-be defenders from the opposition line and then hit the backs where their is an optional overlap.

I also see your point Larky and it was pretty much what I was thinking as well. ABs did set a very high pace for the game and Ireland was equal to the task throughout the whole 1st half but while the ABs keep keepin on Ireland began to fall back. So its like what you say in your last sentences that I feel was Irelands demise in that game.

Tialata has no mongrel about him, thats also what hinders Toeava from being an effective AB. Unless he can find the aggression like Kaino, Mealamu and Nonu find, I doubt that he will be back in the AB's side again.

Tialata looks like a Mongrel Mob member but your right g, he doesnt play as mean as he looks but he is a good player just not as good as the current AB props. I know Neemia surfs the net a bit so if your reading this Neemia play more aggresive please brother. I too think this would make him a better player to watch.

 

[smartcooky]

I don't understand how continuously running from side to side is smart rugby.

I do, but its only smart under certain circumstances.

If you know that the skill levels, stamina and fitness of your midfield/outside backs is superior to that of your opposition, while that of their forwards is on a par with yours, then it makes sense to keep their backs under physical pressure rather than allowing them to "have a rest" while you try to beat up on their forwards. Keep their 11,12,13,14 & 15 having to chase hard an make tackles.

What you are doing here is identifying your opponent's strengths and weaknesses;

Strength: their forwards are at least the equal of yours.
Weakness: their midfield/outside backs are weaker than yours in stamina and skill

You then avoid getting into a contest with their forwards (a strength) and attack their backs (a weakness). How do you think the Wallabies have been so successful for so many years without an effective front row? They just avoided that contest as much as they could, and played to their own strengths (their loose forwards, and backs) instead.

Readers of Sun Tzu will recognise this as the sixth principle of his "Art of War"

Now an army may be likened to water, for just as flowing water avoids the heights and hastens to the lowlands, so an army avoids strength and strikes weakness.

A lot of Sun Tzu's philosophy applies superbly to sport!

 

[woodward]

That's why Sivivatu is the best wing in the world when he's in good form - workrate like Guildford and still awesome at breaking the line and creating something from nothing.

Or is it because he plays for Waikato?

I tend to agree about the tactics though, the All Blacks have seemed to been trialling gameplans for RWC for different situations and against different teams. That's what I think the short 22 drop outs are about, they are obviously trying to get really good at it to include it into a possession orientated game plan which has mostly what we've seen this year.

 

[Nate Dizzle]

no I think the AB's are smarter than that. When they are controling the game they are not going to get into a bashfest with the forwards. They are going to move the ball around and from side to side to test the opositon's fitness get them involved and moving around. It may not pay off straight away but come the last 20min it usally does. Legs turn to jelly, mistakes get made and holes appear AB's score quick trys and take the game away.

I think thats spot on. We're more used to playing games at pace for entire games and why wouldn't you capitilize. I think that we were looking run them around a bit, and hold onto the ball. Not many line breaks but made the Irish tackle like men possessed and you just can't compete after making so many tackles that early. The ABs would have been confident that it would open up a bit after that and it did.