Ireland v New Zealand

[woodward]

question for me. , is against the best defenses, will ye crack them?

Who's the best defences and who haven't we scored at least 4 tries in a game against this year? Though I kind of agree, at least half of the game time this year though they have been making breaks at will

 

[cyRil]

They put nigh-on 40 on a good team, away from home, and he's whinging. Gotta love it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Who's the best defences and who haven't we scored at least 4 tries in a game against this year? Though I kind of agree, at least half of the game time this year though they have been making breaks at will

 

[lynam1104]

Anyone else watch with the BBC commentator seemed like they took a page from the Aussie book.

 

[Jer Mac]

Who's the best defences and who haven't we scored at least 4 tries in a game against this year? Though I kind of agree, at least half of the game time this year though they have been making breaks at will

I'm looking to the rwc in 12 months time when the improving English, Aussies, and yer krytonite the French are in town. Bot to mention an injury free boks! Ye are the most lethal outfit out wide and from counter attacks stroke turn over ball. But say one of the above allow little turnover and sweep out wide, what evidence is there of cracking teams from 1st-3rd phase in midfield? Last night we proved that ye are a little blunt in the middle and we wouldn't beat the teams above at the moment! Carter will be hounded and I think nonu and smith are both markable! Do you think it's a worry that this might be one less string to your bow? Granted it would take dome team to limit ye from turnovers and counter attacks but it could be done!

 

[ckell]

Good display from Ireland, the score was a bit flattering for New Zealand. After seeing the game, I still believe the All Blacks are the best in the world but I am now convinced that they can be beaten at the World Cup although it will take a huge effort.

 

[smartcooky]

Who's the best defences and who haven't we scored at least 4 tries in a game against this year?

Quite a few

<table border="0" cellpadding="2"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#e0eaf1"><td class="lftgs" nowrap="nowrap">Date

Sat, 12 Jun 2010</td><td class="lftblu" nowrap="nowrap">Match

New Zealand v Ireland</td><td class="cenb">Score

66-28</td><td class="cenb">TFA

9:4</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td class="lftgs" nowrap="nowrap">Sat, 19 Jun 2010</td><td class="lftblu" nowrap="nowrap">New Zealand v Wales</td><td class="cenb">42-9</td><td class="cenb">5:0</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#e0eaf1"><td class="lftgs" nowrap="nowrap">Sat, 26 Jun 2010</td><td class="lftblu" nowrap="nowrap">New Zealand v Wales</td><td class="cenb">29-10</td><td class="cenb">2:1 *
</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td class="lftgs" nowrap="nowrap">Sat, 10 Jul 2010</td><td class="lftblu" nowrap="nowrap">New Zealand v South Africa</td><td class="cenb">32-12</td><td class="cenb">4:0</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#e0eaf1"><td class="lftgs" nowrap="nowrap">Sat, 17 Jul 2010</td><td class="lftblu" nowrap="nowrap">New Zealand v South Africa</td><td class="cenb">31-17</td><td class="cenb">4:2</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td class="lftgs" nowrap="nowrap">Sat, 31 Jul 2010</td><td class="lftblu" nowrap="nowrap">New Zealand v Australia</td><td class="cenb">49-28</td><td class="cenb">7:3</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#e0eaf1"><td class="lftgs" nowrap="nowrap">Sat, 07 Aug 2010</td><td class="lftblu" nowrap="nowrap">New Zealand v Australia</td><td class="cenb">20-10</td><td class="cenb">2:1 *
</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td class="lftgs" nowrap="nowrap">Sat, 21 Aug 2010</td><td class="lftblu" nowrap="nowrap">New Zealand v South Africa</td><td class="cenb">29-22</td><td class="cenb">3:1 *
</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#e0eaf1"><td class="lftgs" nowrap="nowrap">Sat, 11 Sep 2010</td><td class="lftblu" nowrap="nowrap">New Zealand v Australia</td><td class="cenb">23-22</td><td class="cenb">2:2 *
</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td class="lftgs" nowrap="nowrap">Sat, 30 Oct 2010</td><td class="lftblu" nowrap="nowrap">New Zealand v Australia</td><td class="cenb">24-26</td><td class="cenb">3:4 *
</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#e0eaf1"><td class="lftgs" nowrap="nowrap">Sat, 06 Nov 2010</td><td class="lftblu" nowrap="nowrap">New Zealand v England</td><td class="cenb">26-16</td><td class="cenb">2:1 *
</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td class="lftgs" nowrap="nowrap">Sat, 13 Nov 2010</td><td class="lftblu" nowrap="nowrap">New Zealand v Scotland</td><td class="cenb">49-3</td><td class="cenb">7:0</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#e0eaf1"><td class="lftgs" nowrap="nowrap">Sat, 20 Nov 2010</td><td class="lftblu" nowrap="nowrap">New Zealand v Ireland</td><td class="cenb">38-18</td><td class="cenb">4:2
</td></tr></tbody></table>

* matches in which the AB's scored less than four tries

 

[Larksea]

Very good game, was interesting you know everyone had been talking down the Irish but when you see the team that took the field and the experience they had they were always going to be dangerous. And their two trys was the best reqard any Northern side has had against the AB's for quite some time. Though the AB's still won comfortably in the end and if weren't for soem desperate Irish defence it could have been a bigger scoreline.

As far as the AB's went i've been harping on about Boric for some time saying all he needs is gametime to prove he's a worthy All Black lock. I said way back at the start of the week boric should have started that game, shame he only got the start through injury but he did eactly what he needed to do. he was awesome everywhere, Tight, Lose, Lineout, defence and attack. Not just in the try he scored but check out the last try of the game. He got the quick ball that started the movement and spun a great pass any halfback would have been prowd of - infact better than some 9's in the squad have been able to manage consistantly.

I know everyone loves thorn, I do too he's an Irom Man. And there is all this Hype about Whitelock being the bext big thing. But IMO Borric has more to offer than Both of them right now, and importantly going into world cup year he can get better where really at best Thorn's only going to get slower. Thorn's fitness may be awesme but he's has become a bit slow in the last couple of years which has reduced his ability as a ball carrier and the workrate he can get through. And Whitelock has huge potential for a 22 year old but right now though he's got huge speed and gets around a lot he's not as strong physically as Boric is.

Torn is awesome for his age, But Boric is almost 10 years younger and coming into his prime. I really think he should be given the chance.

I thought it was interesting last weekend all the AB's trys were scored by backs and this week all their trys were scored by forwards.

Other standout players IMO

Kaino - Had a busy game on defence and a nice run to setup Read's first try. He hasn't been winning many turnovers though, may just be the nature of the game right now.

Read - Is he the best 8 in the world right now? He could very well be IRB player of the year. With the year the AB's have had there are sure to be 2-3 nominations for NZ players and Read would be the top of the list.

Carter - very nice showing. only 2 points off the record now.

Gear - not a spectacular game but he got through more work this week and had some powerful runs. Needs more than one defender to bring him down.

Mills - Brilliant 93rd test, kicking was a bit better, some awesome runs, a nice try saving play. Very busy game.

 

[Amobokoboko]

Only managed to see the second half, but NZ were pushing it to a higher level. Some good stuff by Ireland but not able to finish it.

 

[Dizzy]

Well, a dissapointing game from the AB's. not taking anything away from the Irish here but the All Blacks had all the territory, possession, the go-forward and just couldn't capitalise. Their gameplan of having a flat backlline mixed with stand still bunches of forwards within the backline was atrocious what the coaches were thinking, nobody knows. And it showed ineffective every time Ireland got the ball, they looked more dangerous with the ball in hand than we did.
As soon as the second half started we changed our backline immediately and the backline was deep with no forwards lurking around and we were rewarded with back to back tries.
Then the forwards starting lurking again and our dangerous attack died away.

I want the All Blacks to go back to the quick tap days, and when the tri nations began we were running it from inside the 22 for a couple phases then if we didn't make it out we were then kicking it. In the recent weeks the coaches have been boasting in the media about us scoring tries from unstructured play, the quick tap is perfect for this sort of thing.

On the game itself, Mils is becoming annoying, he showed a bit of selfishness out there and I think he shouldn't be kicking the ball at all, he is too good of an attacker to be doing that. Jane and Gear had great games and I'd say they have cemented their positions while both Nonu and Smith were off their game. The Irish first try I blame them two for poor positional play, it was a soft try. Read had an amazing game and outshined the hard hitting McCaw imo and Whitelock showed why he is such a great prospect for the future of AB Rugby...
We need to get rid of Woodcock, he has messed the scrum up every game on this tour..

As for Ireland, great game BOD. I've honestly never rated him, this game I have changed my outlook on him..

Oh yeah, and I finally predicted the score correctly lol...

 

[TRF_woosaah]

I really enjoyed this game from the start.

I thought though that the ABs tried too much from the start, passing from one side of the field to the other and the Irish defence was great. I felt they needed to get some forwards in there to bring in some of the Irish players but all they really felt like doing was pass to each side. The pace in that first 20 was manic though, it was great to watch.

Didnt feel the Irish really had a show in this game, their fitness seamed to die out a bit, but they kept at it which was great to watch.

Wales this week for a grand slam, dont really see any other result other than us getting the win. Hopefully its another cracker of a game like every other game on this tour (though i missed the aussie game cause i was at my stag do, and the english game cause it was my wedding night)

 

[King_D'Arcy]

I really enjoyed this game from the start.

I thought though that the ABs tried too much from the start, passing from one side of the field to the other and the Irish defence was great. I felt they needed to get some forwards in there to bring in some of the Irish players but all they really felt like doing was pass to each side. The pace in that first 20 was manic though, it was great to watch.

Didnt feel the Irish really had a show in this game, their fitness seamed to die out a bit, but they kept at it which was great to watch.

Wales this week for a grand slam, dont really see any other result other than us getting the win. Hopefully its another cracker of a game like every other game on this tour (though i missed the aussie game cause i was at my stag do, and the english game cause it was my wedding night)

Many Congratulations!!

You shoulda booked your wedding for the next day though. That England - NZ game was a good watch

 

[Darwin]

For New Zealand

1. Tony Woodcock - 7/19 - He's still not back to the form he was in a few years ago, but his scrummaging was good and gt the best of the Irish. He had a good work rate, but didn't hit the line quite as effectivly as he should have.
2. Hika Elliot - 7.5/10 - He started to show a few area of his running game and he didn't make any big mistakes. Solid second game.
3. Owen Franks - 8 - He's just a beast. Scrummaged the crap out of the Irish, and had a big work rate.
4. Tom Donnelly - 6 - Had a leg injury earlier on, didn't really get to show what he can do. May be his last game on tour due to the injury.
5. Anthony Boric - 8 - Fir his standards it was his best game in the All Blacks. Still doesn't warrent a regular spot in the team in my opinion, but he had a good game.
6. Jerome Kaino - 7.5 - Strong carrying and good defence. Plenty of work at the breakdown. Still doesn't have the brick wall defence of Jerry Collins, but he combines very well with the other forwards and usually makes the tackle. His speed was fantastic and very underated, in catching Heaslip down the field.
7. Richie McCaw - 7 - By his standards, it wasn't his best game. Did his job, but for a 93rd testcap, I'd have hoped he'd have been more effective at the break down and carried the ball a little less.
8. Kieren Read - 8.5 - Right now, in my opinion the best #8 in the world. Huge work rate, very quick and he has an uncanny knack of catching the ball in the restarts. He's everything the All Blacks need going into the RWC, and I think he deserves New Zealand player of the year (and I didn't rate him at all in 2008-09).

9. Andy Ellis - 5 - He had a better game than last week, but he's still f*cking useless. Mathewson was much better. Ellis makes poor decisions constantly (kicking the ball, into a bunch of opposition players when you're in 5m with a penalty advantage. Pillock!). His delivery was slow and Carter did very well considering the terrible ball he got from Ellis. People who think he had a good game are kidding themselves.
10. Daniel Carter - 8.5 - Made the right decision 95% of the time. Good running game, picked the right players to pass to and his field and goal kicking was fantastic. Sucks he has to wait another week before he becomes the highest test point scorer of all time.
11. Hosea Gear - 8 - Had a quieter game, but he made the right decision most of the time and was the most dangerous All Black back,
12. Ma'a Nonu - 7.5 - Had an alright game. Didn't make any amazing runs, but his defence on O'Driscoll was very good, and he made plenty of big hits. Nonu the beast didn't turn up, but neither did Nonu the error prone liability.
13. Conrad Smith - 7.5 - Very good on defence, but didn't see much of him on attack. He was good as always, but didn't have one of his better games.
14. Cory Jane - 7 - Didn't get to see what he is often capable of. Once again he didn't make many errors, but he didn't destroy in the way he often can.
15. Mils Muliaina - 7 - I don't know whether Henry has told him to or not, but some of his kicking is so pointless, it's just a direct kick down the middle of the field, for counter attacking. He didn't set up very much for the other backs either. He hasn't been the counter attacking machine we're used to. He had a few good runs himself, but overall I'd still have though either Jane or Dagg would have done better in his place.

16. Andrew Hore - 7.5 - Solid game. Scrummed well, and threw in alright, but nothing out of the ordinary for him.
17. John Afoa - 7.5 - Really improved his scrummaging, he's looking like a good player for the bench. Nice to see Tialata not getting in the 22.
18. Sam Whitelock - 8 - Another really solid game by him. Great of defence and around the park, with some nice runs as well. He should start from now on for the AB's.
19. Liam Messam - N/A -
20. Alby Mathewson - 8 - Provided good fast ball from the break down and made the right decisions every time. Didn't get much oppertunity to show his great running game, but was still much better than Ellis. Should be at least second choice halfback for AB's, or 3rd when Weepu is back.
21. Stephen Donald - 10 - Greatest performance by the Donaldmeister to date. Didn't miss a single kick, drop a single ball, make a single unforced error. For the rest of the series he should make the same kind of contribution from the bench, by not being sub'd on.
22. Sonny Bill Williams - 7 - Didn't make a mistake, but didn't have enough ball to show anyone anything.

I'd have to agree with the vast majority of those ratings. Personally I think Boric's performance showed he should be the primary bench lock for the AB's (with Thorn and Whitelock starting) - like Donnelly he does the basics right, but his strong running game gives him the edge over Donnelly in my opinion. Of-course the return of Ali Williams (or even Jason Eaton) could change this completely...

I think Ellis deserved much better than a 5/10 - I thought he had a pretty good game. I don't think his distribution is any worse than Cowan's - indeed I think it might be slightly better at times. Like most other NZ halfbacks, he takes a few steps before he passes it, however he (like Weepu) takes a step forward as well as steps across, which draws in the opposition defenders better than taking only lateral steps. I don't have any problem at all with the kick of his you mentioned - the AB's had the penalty advantage, and there was nothing on outside him. The kick was poorly executed, but there was always the chance the ball could have ricocheted away and lead to a try - either there would have been a try straight away, or there NZ would have got penalty (which they got, and Carter kicked over). If he had passed it out it could have resulted in a try (though there are certainly no guarantees this would have happened), and there was always the chance that the would lose their penalty advantage... I think the decision to kick was not a bad choice... I'm certainly not suggesting he deserves to be a regular AB starter - I would definitely pick Cowan, Mathewson, or Weepu ahead of him, but if there are a few injuries among the halfbacks I think he's shown he can do an adequate job for the AB's.

The only other player I might give a higher rating is Jane - though play didn't really go his way, he was exceptional in everything he did. He broke a number of tackles, took the high ball brilliantly on a couple of occasions (indeed one of these takes lead directly to Whitelock's try if I remember correctly), and did make a try saving tackles on Earls. Along with Carter, he was the standout NZ back to me.

 

[nickdnz]

I'm looking to the rwc in 12 months time when the improving English, Aussies, and yer krytonite the French are in town. Bot to mention an injury free boks! Ye are the most lethal outfit out wide and from counter attacks stroke turn over ball. But say one of the above allow little turnover and sweep out wide, what evidence is there of cracking teams from 1st-3rd phase in midfield? Last night we proved that ye are a little blunt in the middle and we wouldn't beat the teams above at the moment! Carter will be hounded and I think nonu and smith are both markable! Do you think it's a worry that this might be one less string to your bow? Granted it would take dome team to limit ye from turnovers and counter attacks but it could be done!

The fact that both Nonu and Smith have scored more than almost any other players since 2007 suggests otherwise. Frankly speaking our midfield is usually without a doubt the best mid field in the world, with Nonu, Smith and SBW could all feature in a world XV. Conrad Smith and Ma'a Nonu have been New Zealand's highest try scorers since 2007. Criticism about Smith and Nonu's defence are rubbish, as both of them made potentially try saving tackles. The game plan of moving it out wide was the problem, not the players skill. If anyone remembers Smith put 2 tries against the Irish last time they met.

 

[Sam Owen]

I really enjoyed this game from the start.

I thought though that the ABs tried too much from the start, passing from one side of the field to the other and the Irish defence was great. I felt they needed to get some forwards in there to bring in some of the Irish players but all they really felt like doing was pass to each side. The pace in that first 20 was manic though, it was great to watch.

Just speculating but do you think that first 20 minutes and that first half where Ireland defended and played accordingly to the pace of the game, do you think that might have drained Ireland and thats why their 2nd half performance wasnt as good as their first half?...

 

[Larksea]

I'll never hide the fact I dont like Andy Elis but his distribution was better in that game still not great though. Still too much digging around and not getting anywhere then finally when he gets his hands on he ball he's then looking around. Some of the best ball the AB's are getting when Either Elis or Cowan are on the field is when other players are clearing the ball from the ruck.

IMO the main job of the 9 should be to produce the ball as fast as he can. Good 9's should line themselves up behind a tight forward and grab the ball and spin it as soon as the tighty has hit over the ball. Too much quick ball is going to waste IMO.

 

[coonor]

I'll never hide the fact I dont like Andy Elis but his distribution was better in that game still not great though. Still too much digging around and not getting anywhere then finally when he gets his hands on he ball he's then looking around. Some of the best ball the AB's are getting when Either Elis or Cowan are on the field is when other players are clearing the ball from the ruck.

IMO the main job of the 9 should be to produce the ball as fast as he can. Good 9's should line themselves up behind a tight forward and grab the ball and spin it as soon as the tighty has hit over the ball. Too much quick ball is going to waste IMO.

I think thats what Stringer provides for Ireland. He demands quick ball and his pass is so snappy that it means we can spread it quickly and that can catch any defence of guard. I think that was the first game Ireland have managed to understand and use the new rules at the breakdown which has previously been a problem for them. I think with possession we have the fire power to really cut open defences but we still do not get enough possession. If Mike Ross was playing our scrum would be stable and although Cronin can usually throw varley, Flannery and O'connell will improve the lineout so hopefully when we are at full strength and if mike ross is given a chance we should be able to secure more ball for our backs to use as they look threatning.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I don't understand the love for Gear, particularly in this latest game. He almost muffed a try, and he was non-existent for many parts of the game - how can you rate his performance about Smith and Nonu's? What was so great about it, I ask.

 

[Muzzy]

we need Tialatas scrumaging back

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So that Ireland have a fair chance in the scrums? (not a fan of Tialata at all!)