Lions: Return to Oz

[big ginger 8]

Am I underrating Ferris? I never said he was a bad player, or even just an ok player, I called him a world class player because that's what he's proven over the years, but I don't automatically see how Ferris is better in all the departments you claimed. It's not as if Lydiate's current form has been a flash in the pan, he's been steadily getting better since his Wales debut, and has been in awesome form for the past year. If you're not going to use form as a guide, then what's the point of any of this, because we might as well all state our favourite players and be done with it.

As for your last statement, that's a difficult thing to answer. Overall I'd say that Ferris has a more complete skillset, but that doesn't automatically translate into being automatically the better player. All I can say is that if Wales currently had the choice of both players, and going on their recent international form then I'd pick Lydiate, but that could easily change.

I agree that the system for player of the tournament is incredibly flawed, but I feel Lydiate was still deserving of the award regardless. He had the biggest impact of any player in the tournament, and can't think of any other player who deserved it more than him.



I agree with that. I'd be perfectly happy to see Ferris line-up, in the same way as I'd be happy to see Kearney at fullback over Halfpenny etc. I wouldn't be happy with Healy over Jenkins though

You said I was underrating Lydiate yet I called him a very good player from me thats high enough praise as I'm not someone who says such things lightly. I don't really see how you don't think Ferris has been in excellent form anyway. He's been brilliant for Ulster all year absolutely destroying Clermont and Leicester and being excellent for Ireland.

Look obviously it's not like I'd be crying at seeing Lydiate selected for the tests I'd be happy enough but I'd definitely prefer Ferris. As clearly I rate him just that bit more and I think he's more suited for Australia.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Out of idle curiousity, how many share sentiments like this, and how many don't?

I'd rather see the Lions win than England sweep off the Grand Slam personally.

I agree - I was much more excited for/throughout the Lions tour in '09 than I was for any Six Nations/World Cup that I can remember in recent years.

 

[welshglory]

Out of idle curiousity, how many share sentiments like this, and how many don't?

I'd rather see the Lions win than England sweep off the Grand Slam personally.

I do. I'd rather us build for the 2015 world cup with Gatland at the helm full time. I love the lions but i'd prefer to see us win a couple more grand slams and a world cup instead!

 

[bushytop]

I agree - I was much more excited for/throughout the Lions tour in '09 than I was for any Six Nations/World Cup that I can remember in recent years.

I always look forward to lions tours, get really excited on match days (dirt track & tests) and can't wait for the docu-DVD to be released but first and foremost I place Wales above them in importance.

Would be very happy if Gats didn't get the gig. Said it before aswell as someone else (feic I think) give it to Mike Ruddock... worked in Wales, Ireland and England, won a grand slam at international level, would genuinley have no national favouritism. Top bloke, top coach imo.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Agree, Lions tours are the most exciting part of the rugby calendar cycle. It's a great relief to be able to fully appreciate the players from the other Home nations and not have to pretend that another nation's players are less good than your own.

My prediction however, is that from the team that from the starting XV that would be picked today for the first test tomorrow, only just over half will be starting when the actual tour comes round. Many injuries will occur, obviously, and many players wil be out of form by the time it comes round. Case in point: George North is getting about the same extent of rave-reviews and admiration for better a top-class player as Chris Ashton was about a year ago. Incidentally, 15 months ago and further back than that many Welsh fans were calling for Gatlands head. Now, likely lions coach?

 

[Aedaphon]

I'm definitely more of a Lions fan than an England fan. As British by citizenship not by blood I much prefer to support all 4 nations than a single one in the 6 nations.

 

[jprest12]

Ben Foden is the best 15 in the northern hemisphere.

 

[big ginger 8]

Ben Foden is the best 15 in the northern hemisphere.

Expand please. Brilliant player but it's not exactly clear cut Kearney and Halfpenny are class players.

 

[dullonien]

Ben Foden is the best 15 in the northern hemisphere.

On 6 nations form I'd have Kearney and Halfpenny over him. Foden is a great player, but had a disappointing 6 nations. Very little between Kearney and Halfpenny though, who were both consistently excellent throughout the 6 nations. I'd expect Foden to be back challenging in time for the Lions though.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Kearney and Halfpenny are both better atm.
I'd take an on form Foden over either of those, though.

 

[j'nuh]

Still wondering how well Halfpenny would do in wet and windy conditions. Jonny May was fantastic at fullback for Gloucester and won player of the month for January because of this, but then looked really exposed under the high ball against Leicester when the weather was crap. Also, Halfpenny's size is a bit of a disadvantage in competing in the air. If I were a coach, I'd love to try and expose that. Jury's still out imo, let's see how he plays against New Zealand or an on-fire Australia.

Foden hasn't put in a big game at international level for a while. He was kept out of the game around the WC because we couldn't get the ball back to our outside backs because of how deep JW was standing, and more recently he was kept out of the game because our only attacking tactic was to kick. Hopefully we'll appoint Wayne Smith and he'll get the most out of Foden.

Kearney is excellent, and he'd be my first-choice if the Lions were now.

 

[Saintjay]

I would take England winning over any Lions victory. Just because of where I live and the bragging rights over the welsh. It frustrates me when the Lions lose because in theory they should be pretty unbeatable. My interest started to wane in the Lions after the Keith Wood era Lions. The 96 Living with Lions DVD started my unexplained and unreasonable man crush on Keith Wood. My interest has picked up again pretty much because of this forum I guess.

 

[Teh Mite]

Once the Lions tours actually come around, too many people give more of a toss about their nationality then they do the players available. You watch and see...

 

[markjudge]

Ok guys,

decided to come up with a full squad for touring. Here it is:

Props: Gethin Jenkins, Cian Healy, Alex Corbisiero, Dan Cole, Adam Jones
Hookers: Dylan Hartley, Rory Best, Matthew Rees

I think both of these areas almost pick themselves. Jenkins' ability to play on either side, means a straightforward choice of two loose two tight. Hooker a very solid position imho.

Locks: Ian Evans, Paul O'Connell, Richie Gray, Alun Wyn Jones

Only taking four locks so I can take an extra flanker. If really pushed for a fifth, Parling on current form. However, I think I'd rather play Tom Croft in the second row. His strength in the lineout speaks for itself.

Flankers: Stephen Ferris, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton (captain), Tom Croft, Ross Rennie
Number 8: Toby Faletau, Jamie Heaslip, Ben Morgan

The fact that players of Denton, SOB and Wood's quality would be staying at home speaks for itself. Honestly, it's a toss up between Wood and Lydiate for me. Ferris and Croft are ahead of Lydiate for me. Warburton and Rennie both fantastic and GENUINE 7's. Lydiate's (slight) lack of pace is a worry and Wood covers both sides. However, Lydiate's saving grace is the Lydiate/Warburton/Faletau balance, which just sneaks him in.

Scrum-Half: Mike Phillips, Ben Youngs, Conor Murray
Fly-Half: Jonny Sexton, Rhys Priestland, Owen Farrell

Scrum-Half is the weakest position in the squad. Youngs' great play against Oz previously gets him in. Flood unlucky not to get in for same reason.

Centres: Jamie Roberts, Manu Tuilagi, Jonathan Davies, Brian O'Driscoll

Easiest position to pick in my view. Anyone leaving BOD at home is out of their mind, and I'm English!!!

Wings: George North, Alex Cuthbert, Tommy Bowe, Chris Ashton
Full Backs: Leigh Halfpenny, Rob Kearney, Ben Foden

That's 37 players, imho a perfect number to tour.

First XV

1. Jenkins
2. Hartley
3. Jones
4. O'Connell
5. Gray
6. Croft
7. Warburton (capt)
8. Heaslip
9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Tuilagi
14. Bowe
15. Halfpenny

16. Best
17. Cole
18. Evans
19. Ferris
20. Youngs
21. Farrell
22. Kearney

 

[Amiga500]

Can't argue too much with the above squad...

Although I'd hold on naming Tuilagi at 13 ahead of the great man. By the end of this season he could (once again) be best 13 in the NH. We all remember how well him and Roberts worked in bokke-land.

Also, not in a million years would I have Tom Croft ahead of Stephen Ferris.

 

[cyRil]

Olyy's wondering where Dave Denton is?

 

[Amiga500]

Olyy's wondering where Dave Denton is?

Probably on a beach somewhere! :lol:

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd sack off Faletau for another lock right away (either Parling or A.N Other) - Denton would be good to take, especially as he plays 6 and 8, but then who do you take him over?
Croft is the worst of that lot (on recent form), but if on good form then he's very handy to have.

Also wouldn't take Ben Youngs if you paid me! He's got 18months to prove himself again, but even then....

 

[Draggs]

I'd sack off Faletau for another lock right away (either Parling or A.N Other) - Denton would be good to take, especially as he plays 6 and 8, but then who do you take him over?
Croft is the worst of that lot (on recent form), but if on good form then he's very handy to have.

Also wouldn't take Ben Youngs if you paid me! He's got 18months to prove himself again, but even then....

Until Ben Morgan can play 80 minutes, I wouldn't bother with him.
Heaslip is off form and I still am not sure about Denton.

 

[dullonien]

Yeah, not much wrong with the squad you picked. We'll have to see how Matthew Rees goes over the coming year, because at the moment he's nowhere near the level required. If he doesn't improve by Summer, Ken Owens could go to Aus as number one hooker, and I wouldn't be surprised if he retained that position into the 6 nations and beyond. I'd have Best as the current Lions starter ahead of Hartley, who imo isn't that great.

The situation at lock could get interesting if Charteris returns to his WC form, but it does get difficult to decide who to leave out. O'Connell's age could count against him, but if he's playing at the same level in a year's time, he goes. It might come down to a straight shootout between the three Welsh locks, with two getting on the plane.

The battle for the back-row is going to be monumental, there is just so many good players. My thoughts on the current blindside options are well known so I won't go into that any more than just saying that I'd have both Ferris and Lydiate ahead of Croft at the moment. It's nice to see Croft playing well, but he needs to show he can sustain it, after being pretty dire for much of the time since the last Lions tour. Ryan Jones will be unlucky to miss out if his form continues, but that just shows the quality available. At number 8, I'm not sure I'd have Heaslip in the squad, with Denton playing so well, but that depends on Heaslip really. He's shown signs of returning to his best, so we'll have to wait and see.

There should be a good battle for the 13 shirt. Jon Davies is the front runner at the moment, but I will never rule out BOD, and Tuilagi is such a handful. I don't think defences would like to see Roberts and Tuilagi lining up opposite them! I'm going to mention Ashley Beck once more here, because he's probably on of the form centres in the NH, and could cause a bit of a stir this Summer with Roberts out.

I'm not totally sold on Alex Cuthbert yet. His form for the Blues has been appalling, where he's shown signs of a lack of basic skills. This might just be the current Blues effect, where confidence and enthusiasm is non-existent. The next year will tell us a lot about him, but I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Hogg, or one of the many English wingers, or Fitzgerrald or Earls go instead. The same goes for Chris Ashton who wouldn't be anywhere near the squad at present.