Leinster v Munster

[shazbooger]

Were all in a bit of denial because its John Hayes. he's not just a Munster legend ye know! The whole crowd were deflated after that. Apart from the odd chant everything went fairly quiet for the next 10 mins or so. I say again, hes not just a Munster legend. We all feel let down.

I remember seeing it on the screen and was shocked by it. It looked intentional then, and more so on the replay.

 

[monkeypigeon]

Well At least lessons have been learned.

1. Fogs can't be trusted in the lineout. Flannery comes in and the forwards get a break rather than having to worry about who's gonna catch the total miss throw and then suddenly being on defence again. Fogs wasn't the biggest problem...but Flannery should make a positive difference and safe lineout ball is essential. Flannery vs Hartley is gonna be quite a battle actually.

2. Buckley in for Hayes (most likely by neccessity). I suspect our scrum was gonna be massacred anyway against Northampton...at least Buckley will give us a bit more rucking power and 'scary mofo running at me' factor around the pitch.

3. O'Connell back in for Micko. Mick's done well in the last few weeks but last night he was exposed against a top team which at an intensity he can't manage. O'Connell will also give more leadership to the pack. I hope.

4. Backrow was where the big problem was. I knew going into it that the ballance was all wrong. Leamy's not a 6. He's a 7 or an 8. as far as I'm concerned anyway and he hasn't been playing well anyway. Niall Ronan is too light against a heavyweight backrow. He's a great tackler and he rips the ball nearly everytime but come an 80 minute battle he;s not the player I want in my backrow. Williams is a good 8 but always looks a bit lathargic when he doesn't have the ball. Hopedully next week we have a better balance with 6. Quinlan and then 7. Wallace 8 Williams/Leamy. Best/Rogers/Dowson etc are gonna make for a great backrow war so hopefully we pick the right one this time.

5. At halfback: Tomas O'Leary played well...brilliantly actually when you consider what pressure he was under. I'd love to have Warwick start ahead of ROG but it's never gonna happen.

6. Back three hardly touched the ball because Mafi doesn't know how to pass. I'm starting to hate the guy. Since I sae him live last year I've noticed every mistake he makes in attack. So he occassionaly does something brilliant. But more often that not he goes alone rather than just taking a defender out of the game and spreading the ball.

7. De Villiers is a great professional, I'm sure he learned from his mistakes....I still think Earls should be at 13 and not 15. Most people disagree, but I like him there. I've been impressed by Clarke at Northampton in the last few weeks (since Teh Mite pointed him out) but I think if a player is agressive with him he's manageable and I think De Villiers - Earls have the winning against Downey(or whoever starts there come Saturday)-Clarke


On Point 4....I'd like to add 'there's no point picking players on form if they're not gonna form well together'.

On Point 7...I realise I may have to eat humble if Earls plays centre and himself and de Villiers lose the battle.

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Oct 4 2009, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Were all in a bit of denial because its John Hayes. he's not just a Munster legend ye know! The whole crowd were deflated after that. Apart from the odd chant everything went fairly quiet for the next 10 mins or so. I say again, hes not just a Munster legend. We all feel let down.

I remember seeing it on the screen and was shocked by it. It looked intentional then, and more so on the replay.[/b]

It was the same in the pub. Everyone WTFing and yelling at the ref and saying it was someone else untill they showed the replay and after that there wasn't a sound untill Horgan intercepted the try. And at that poin it made no difference. Hayes had aleady stamped my heart out.

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Oct 4 2009, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 4 2009, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also on the Bull's case. Think he shouldn't be banned on basis he is a gentleman off field, rarely in trouble with a ref in all his time playing and he was not the only player comitting the foul.[/b]

I disagree entirely. Hayes had two goes at Healy's head. He looked down and knew precisely what he was doing. His previous record will count in his favour (unlike, say, Quinlan) but he deserves a ban.

Here's a clip of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTJt1e6k-M4
[/b][/quote]

I agree with what ye were saying and just think that the red card should be deemed enough or 3weeks max like I was just making point that the Bull was not the only player although he was only 1 who connected effectively. Like there was some incidents involving both players but none malicious like it was a derby and I just hope the Bull doesn't miss much especially not AI's as I feel it would end his international career and it not way a man who has given so much to game should bow out

 

[MunsterMan]

Mafi isn't an Outside Centre. His game is breaking the line and offloading.

My team for Northampton:

1. Horan
2. Flannery
3. Buckley
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Leamy
7. Wallace
8. Williams
9. O'Leary
10. Warwick
11. Dowling
12. de Villiers
13. Earls
14. Howlett
15. Jones

16. Fogarty
17. Brugnaut
18. Ryan
19. Ronan
20. Morland
21. O'Gara
22. Mafi

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Oct 4 2009, 08:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Mafi isn't an Outside Centre. His game is breaking the line and offloading.

My team for Northampton:

1. Horan
2. Flannery
3. Buckley
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Leamy
7. Wallace
8. Williams
9. O'Leary
10. Warwick
11. Dowling
12. de Villiers
13. Earls
14. Howlett
15. Jones

16. Fogarty
17. Brugnaut
18. Ryan
19. Ronan
20. Morland
21. O'Gara
22. Mafi[/b]

Are you mad Quinny has something major to offer from 6 or off bench,
Ryan > O'Driscoll is very debatable I prefer Micko myself.
Agree with Morland been ahead of Stringer & Warwick gettin chance at his preferred position of 10 but neither will happen.
And although Jones has had good start to season he was shaky at times also. Think Earls does need 4-5 games to get back in to mindset of 15 as we seen last night with judgement of wind etc

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Oct 4 2009, 08:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Mafi isn't an Outside Centre. His game is breaking the line and offloading.

My team for Northampton:

1. Horan
2. Flannery
3. Buckley
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Leamy
7. Wallace
8. Williams
9. O'Leary
10. Warwick
11. Dowling
12. de Villiers
13. Earls
14. Howlett
15. Jones

16. Fogarty
17. Brugnaut
18. Ryan
19. Ronan
20. Morland
21. O'Gara
22. Mafi[/b]

I like your team except I don't think Hurley deserves to be dropped. so I'd have him instead of Dowling. And if Quinnies is fit (is he?) I'd start him at 6.

 

[feicarsinn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 4 2009, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Oct 4 2009, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 4 2009, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also on the Bull's case. Think he shouldn't be banned on basis he is a gentleman off field, rarely in trouble with a ref in all his time playing and he was not the only player comitting the foul.[/b]

I disagree entirely. Hayes had two goes at Healy's head. He looked down and knew precisely what he was doing. His previous record will count in his favour (unlike, say, Quinlan) but he deserves a ban.

Here's a clip of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTJt1e6k-M4
[/b][/quote]

I agree with what ye were saying and just think that the red card should be deemed enough or 3weeks max like I was just making point that the Bull was not the only player although he was only 1 who connected effectively. Like there was some incidents involving both players but none malicious like it was a derby and I just hope the Bull doesn't miss much especially not AI's as I feel it would end his international career and it not way a man who has given so much to game should bow out
[/b][/quote]
WTF??

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Oct 4 2009, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 4 2009, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Oct 4 2009, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 4 2009, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also on the Bull's case. Think he shouldn't be banned on basis he is a gentleman off field, rarely in trouble with a ref in all his time playing and he was not the only player comitting the foul.[/b]

I disagree entirely. Hayes had two goes at Healy's head. He looked down and knew precisely what he was doing. His previous record will count in his favour (unlike, say, Quinlan) but he deserves a ban.

Here's a clip of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTJt1e6k-M4
[/b][/quote]

I agree with what ye were saying and just think that the red card should be deemed enough or 3weeks max like I was just making point that the Bull was not the only player although he was only 1 who connected effectively. Like there was some incidents involving both players but none malicious like it was a derby and I just hope the Bull doesn't miss much especially not AI's as I feel it would end his international career and it not way a man who has given so much to game should bow out
[/b][/quote]
WTF??
[/b][/quote]
I meant it as there was instances when Leinster were rolling forward on Munster and steamrolled over them and Micko got plenty of studs in body but not malicious and making point that IF the Bull did not have intention of hurting and could not see (IMO he couldn't see) and got Healy in chest would he still be guilty ..... NO

 

[feicarsinn]

I can't see how you can say there wasn't intent there. Watch the clip, it's right there.

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Oct 4 2009, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 4 2009, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Oct 4 2009, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 4 2009, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also on the Bull's case. Think he shouldn't be banned on basis he is a gentleman off field, rarely in trouble with a ref in all his time playing and he was not the only player comitting the foul.[/b]

I disagree entirely. Hayes had two goes at Healy's head. He looked down and knew precisely what he was doing. His previous record will count in his favour (unlike, say, Quinlan) but he deserves a ban.

Here's a clip of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTJt1e6k-M4
[/b][/quote]

I agree with what ye were saying and just think that the red card should be deemed enough or 3weeks max like I was just making point that the Bull was not the only player although he was only 1 who connected effectively. Like there was some incidents involving both players but none malicious like it was a derby and I just hope the Bull doesn't miss much especially not AI's as I feel it would end his international career and it not way a man who has given so much to game should bow out
[/b][/quote]
WTF??
[/b][/quote]


Yeah. Sometimes people don't read things before they post them. Can we all stop talking about this. It depresses me.

anything but talking about Hayes,

Darren Bent is class isn't he?
X Factor's all a bit gay in't?
Law Mystery Tour on Tuesday, should be a laugh
Person on Facebook added me and again...haven't a clue who she is. Probably just fancies me.
Come Dine with me is some repetative rekcuf or a program.
Reading Neuromancer by William Gibson. Its the 'Archetypal Cyber-Punk Novel'.
My steak was nice.
Thank god my flu is gone...well nearly gone but I can get over the cough.
Think I'll have a shower. Gettin a bit sticky so I am.
That Moby song from the Bourne Identity is unreal.
Aneglina Jolie has BIG lips.

 

[feicarsinn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Oct 4 2009, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Oct 4 2009, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 4 2009, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Oct 4 2009, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 4 2009, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also on the Bull's case. Think he shouldn't be banned on basis he is a gentleman off field, rarely in trouble with a ref in all his time playing and he was not the only player comitting the foul.[/b]

I disagree entirely. Hayes had two goes at Healy's head. He looked down and knew precisely what he was doing. His previous record will count in his favour (unlike, say, Quinlan) but he deserves a ban.

Here's a clip of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTJt1e6k-M4
[/b][/quote]

I agree with what ye were saying and just think that the red card should be deemed enough or 3weeks max like I was just making point that the Bull was not the only player although he was only 1 who connected effectively. Like there was some incidents involving both players but none malicious like it was a derby and I just hope the Bull doesn't miss much especially not AI's as I feel it would end his international career and it not way a man who has given so much to game should bow out
[/b][/quote]
WTF??
[/b][/quote]


Yeah. Sometimes people don't read things before they post them. Can we all stop talking about this. It depresses me.

anything but talking about Hayes,

Darren Bent is class isn't he? In a good run of form alright. Still, wasn't good enough for Tottenham was he? maybe Steve Bruce is just the man
X Factor's all a bit gay in't? Yes. Britain's got talent however....
Law Mystery Tour on Tuesday, should be a laugh. Wut?
Person on Facebook added me and again...haven't a clue who she is. Probably just fancies me. Does she have a ridiculous name? I get them all the time. But I'm a stud
Come Dine with me is some repetative rekcuf or a program. Can't really comment. Hous is back tonight though!
Reading Neuromancer by William Gibson. Its the 'Archetypal Cyber-Punk Novel'. Again can't comment
My steak was nice. Had lamb tonight, not a fan. Geddit?, Lamb, fan?? No?
Thank god my flu is gone...well nearly gone but I can get over the cough. The mammy has something similar... wont shut up about it either
Think I'll have a shower. Gettin a bit sticky so I am. Lovely. "I just took a would you have been a Nazi test"
That Moby song from the Bourne Identity is unreal. Don't like Moby. Boo
Aneglina Jolie has BIG lips. Yes, very
[/b][/quote]

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Oct 4 2009, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Oct 4 2009, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 4 2009, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Oct 4 2009, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 4 2009, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also on the Bull's case. Think he shouldn't be banned on basis he is a gentleman off field, rarely in trouble with a ref in all his time playing and he was not the only player comitting the foul.[/b]

I disagree entirely. Hayes had two goes at Healy's head. He looked down and knew precisely what he was doing. His previous record will count in his favour (unlike, say, Quinlan) but he deserves a ban.

Here's a clip of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTJt1e6k-M4
[/b][/quote]

I agree with what ye were saying and just think that the red card should be deemed enough or 3weeks max like I was just making point that the Bull was not the only player although he was only 1 who connected effectively. Like there was some incidents involving both players but none malicious like it was a derby and I just hope the Bull doesn't miss much especially not AI's as I feel it would end his international career and it not way a man who has given so much to game should bow out
[/b][/quote]
WTF??
[/b][/quote]


Yeah. Sometimes people don't read things before they post them. Can we all stop talking about this. It depresses me.

anything but talking about Hayes,

Darren Bent is class isn't he?
X Factor's all a bit gay in't?
Law Mystery Tour on Tuesday, should be a laugh
Person on Facebook added me and again...haven't a clue who she is. Probably just fancies me.
Come Dine with me is some repetative rekcuf or a program.
Reading Neuromancer by William Gibson. Its the 'Archetypal Cyber-Punk Novel'.
My steak was nice.
Thank god my flu is gone...well nearly gone but I can get over the cough.
Think I'll have a shower. Gettin a bit sticky so I am.
That Moby song from the Bourne Identity is unreal.
Aneglina Jolie has BIG lips.
[/b][/quote]

Any friends for me

And I love Ms Jolie's lips :bravo:

 

[durbutter]

Ugh, Law.

Ugh mystery tours. Jammed to the hole with first years gan dabt.

 

[cyRil]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Oct 4 2009, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Person on Facebook added me and again...haven't a clue who she is. Probably just fancies me.[/b]

Check her birth date. If it's down as 1 February 1990 delete her, people are trying to hack into your profile.

 

[MunsterMan]

Just going back to the John Hayes debate, when calculating how long he should be banned for under Magners League disciplinary rules, he should be given 3 or 4 times the ban the Scarlets tightead for for the stamp and flying headbutt on a prone player.

What is 3 or 4 times nothing again?

The Magners disciplinary rules are laughable.

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads back to the match and away from the Hayes incident. After sobering up and reading he programme as the day-after trip to the bog B) was required with a good read i browsed through the stats etc and notice that while (up to last year) I always felt Leinster were 2-3years behind Munster in the development as a province (eg. been consistently competitive and building a die-hard fan-base) they have caught up and we are on par I think at this moment.

But Leinster have ditched the D4 crap etc and have scanned the province and found some real gems like Sean O'Brien. But my point is should we here in Munster not study Leinsters underage system set-up as upon reading it just seems to me in Munster you have to be with certain clubs and schools to even be recognized and we arent doing what Leinster are doing and raiding everywhere. Like if you come from a junior club chances are by time an AIL club recognizes you and you were to establish yourself your too old for Munster like I know there are few exceptions. But what i basically want is a change in the way we develop and discover players.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 4 2009, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I agree with what ye were saying and just think that the red card should be deemed enough or 3weeks max like I was just making point that the Bull was not the only player although he was only 1 who connected effectively.[/b]

Watched the match again on Setanta. It was ironic to see Hayes on the floor of Leinsters rolling maul (around 30-35 mins), hanging out of a Leinster leg and being dragged along the ground. Barely a boot went near him even though he was so obviously bringing it down.

Roll on 20-25 mins and Healy is on the floor, every single Munster boot is giving him a shoeing. In fact it looked like they lost most of their momentum cause they seemed intent on hurting the player on the ground. Instead of just mauling they decided to take the law into their own hands. An obvious sign of frustration. Really was not a pretty sight.

I dont care if its John Hayes or Brian O'Driscoll. There was intent (he was looking right at him and his aim was absolutely perfect) and given the whinging we all did with regards to Burger and Quinlan, if were being consistent a big ass ban should be handed out.

 

[shazbooger]

And back on match. Looking at the replay Luke Fitzgerald looked razor sharp. He dumped Williams on his ass head on, and with ball in hand he kinda reminded me of Shane Williams (without the turnovers).

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Oct 4 2009, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 4 2009, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with what ye were saying and just think that the red card should be deemed enough or 3weeks max like I was just making point that the Bull was not the only player although he was only 1 who connected effectively.[/b]

Watched the match again on Setanta. It was ironic to see Hayes on the floor of Leinsters rolling maul (around 30-35 mins), hanging out of a Leinster leg and being dragged along the ground. Barely a boot went near him even though he was so obviously bringing it down.

Roll on 20-25 mins and Healy is on the floor, every single Munster boot is giving him a shoeing. In fact it looked like they lost most of their momentum cause they seemed intent on hurting the player on the ground. Instead of just mauling they decided to take the law into their own hands. An obvious sign of frustration. Really was not a pretty sight.

I dont care if its John Hayes or Brian O'Driscoll. There was intent (he was looking right at him and his aim was absolutely perfect) and given the whinging we all did with regards to Burger and Quinlan, if were being consistent a big ass ban should be handed out.
[/b][/quote]
I agree if there was intent he should be slapped with the book it just that knowing John Hayes it is totally out of character and maybe it because of shock just find it hard to accept he acted with intent or without being provoked. ( Not saying he was provoked just that it totally unlike him and must've been that or possibly frustration)