[June Tests 2018: 3rd Test] South Africa vs. England (23/06/2018)

[Gena_ZA]

Well done on taking the last game England
Jantjies is my view nullified any chances we had and made AE inclusion fruitless
Still we lost and England was better on the day
Was a good series, I do feel England has bigger and more problems than SA has at this stage and I am looking forward to the next game in November to measure each improvements.
Thanks to all the England commentators here, great to read and learn for people with insight, can't get this kind of info anywhere else, glad it happened in good spirit!
Cheers

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd question whether Cole is the best scrummager to be honest. See how he is after the summer off, theoretically he is but he's been poor lately.
Agree that sinck had average at best initial 2 games, but the combo of him and marler was excellent so I'd keep it going forwards into the AIs

Aye.

Bear in mind too that Sinckler was basically in his career worst club form this season, it's not like he was killing it at club level then floundered when he stepped up.
When he was playing better for the Lions, he had been in better form for Quins too.

I think everyone would love it if Dan Cole circa 2011 came back.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I have a question for our administrators. And this is maybe not just in Rugby, but also in Cricket. Why do we host teams in stadiums at times of the year where the conditions will suit the opposition better than us? For example, Why host a match in Cape Town in the middle of winter, when we all know that the Cape is the only Winter Rainfall province in the country. Why host a game against a NH opposition in Cape Town when it's a damn near guarantee that it'll rain? Same with Durban during the Summer in cricket season.

I get that we need to spread the attendance with regard to venues and matches in SA. But surely we could have traded a venue for this last game for a game during the RC at perhaps Durban or PE?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Being stuck with the soulless monolith that is Twickenham I love the fact that your national team plays around the country.

Rats, agree on earlier version of Cole. Definitely a shirt up for grabs.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

I have a question for our administrators. And this is maybe not just in Rugby, but also in Cricket. Why do we host teams in stadiums at times of the year where the conditions will suit the opposition better than us? For example, Why host a match in Cape Town in the middle of winter, when we all know that the Cape is the only Winter Rainfall province in the country. Why host a game against a NH opposition in Cape Town when it's a damn near guarantee that it'll rain? Same with Durban during the Summer in cricket season.

I get that we need to spread the attendance with regard to venues and matches in SA. But surely we could have traded a venue for this last game for a game during the RC at perhaps Durban or PE?

It's probably a good thing long term. You can't always dictate the conditions and there's every chance you'll be playing in the mud come November. Not a bad idea to find out who can roll around in the stuff without grimacing.
Or look at it this way; you are very unlikely to see Elton on a wet day again, if at all

 

[ratsapprentice]

Rats, agree on earlier version of Cole. Definitely a shirt up for grabs.

Don't know whether I'd say that.

What I mean is - unless Cole returns to that kind of form, the shirt isn't really up for grabs.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Don't know whether I'd say that.

What I mean is - unless Cole returns to that kind of form, the shirt isn't really up for grabs.

I mean it is.
Williams or Sinckler.
Sinckler finished well but was bang average the previous 2 games.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Maybe, as I said in the previous post, Sinckler was nowhere near his best for Quins.

So if he returns to something like that, which you'd have to hope he would, at least to some degree; he'll be hard to displace.

 

[Reiser99]

I have a question for our administrators. And this is maybe not just in Rugby, but also in Cricket. Why do we host teams in stadiums at times of the year where the conditions will suit the opposition better than us? For example, Why host a match in Cape Town in the middle of winter, when we all know that the Cape is the only Winter Rainfall province in the country. Why host a game against a NH opposition in Cape Town when it's a damn near guarantee that it'll rain? Same with Durban during the Summer in cricket season.

I get that we need to spread the attendance with regard to venues and matches in SA. But surely we could have traded a venue for this last game for a game during the RC at perhaps Durban or PE?

See I actually think that planning venues to suit one team should be stopped, especially in cricket where it is worse and they prepare pitches specifically to teams wishes sometimes. Sport should be a fair competition and while you will always have some benefits from being at home, such as support or local condition, it shouldn't be to the point that it affects the opposition in a clear way.

 

[RedruthRFC]

See I actually think that planning venues to suit one team should be stopped, especially in cricket where it is worse and they prepare pitches specifically to teams wishes sometimes. Sport should be a fair competition and while you will always have some benefits from being at home, such as support or local condition, it shouldn't be to the point that it affects the opposition in a clear way.

Indeed, all international sport should be played in the country of its invention, in the conditions that those who created it would have expected it to have been played in!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Indeed, all international sport should be played in the country of its invention, in the conditions that those who created it would have expected it to have been played in!

Absolutely!

Test cricket only to be played in overcast conditions at Headingley in the first two weeks of May. Rugby should be the preserve of Twickenham in the November rain. Wendyball, who cares?

 

[TRF_heineken]

See I actually think that planning venues to suit one team should be stopped, especially in cricket where it is worse and they prepare pitches specifically to teams wishes sometimes. Sport should be a fair competition and while you will always have some benefits from being at home, such as support or local condition, it shouldn't be to the point that it affects the opposition in a clear way.

I hear you. And in Cricket that plan is going to get a rude awakening as the ICC is looking at abolishing the coin toss ahead of the test and allow the visiting captain to decide on whether to bat or to bowl first.

But in rugby, the issue is that the stadiums aren't as full as it once were, especially in countries like South Africa due to a lot of losses and other factors. The crowd in most stadiums play an integral part in international tests, and try and make it as uncomfortable as possible for the visiting teams. But if it's rainy and muddy, less people will go to the match, and less people will go because they want to see entertaining rugby. All I'm saying is that the venues being selected should be considered for it's maximum potential and consider revenue and attendance.

 

[Reiser99]

I hear you. And in Cricket that plan is going to get a rude awakening as the ICC is looking at abolishing the coin toss ahead of the test and allow the visiting captain to decide on whether to bat or to bowl first.

But in rugby, the issue is that the stadiums aren't as full as it once were, especially in countries like South Africa due to a lot of losses and other factors. The crowd in most stadiums play an integral part in international tests, and try and make it as uncomfortable as possible for the visiting teams. But if it's rainy and muddy, less people will go to the match, and less people will go because they want to see entertaining rugby. All I'm saying is that the venues being selected should be considered for it's maximum potential and consider revenue and attendance.

I can see that point of view, on the other hand, playing international test matches elsewhere, could boost income for a stadium that is struggling and get more fans coming. If you just select for maximum potential and revenue, you'd probably end up with something like Twickenham.

 

[Jimbo]

Let's hope this break sorts the players out, if cips is our short term future 10 and everyone agrees Young's is an issue then give Velacott a go before the World Cup, he has pace to burn can really up the anti needs to be trialed before the World Cup.

 

[mania]

just gotta say, that when hitler was dreaming of his aryan super soldier he was thinking of vermulen. d4m its good to see him back in test rugby, but now he's taking a break!! whilst i applaud his intelligence for timing his rest for now before the WC i gotta sound out my disappointment at not seeing him perform vs the ABs in TRC.
still its good for the boks to have him back.
cracks me up cos imo vermulen is one of the slowest 8's in international rugby, yet he's one of the best thru sheer determination.

 

[Pom in Exile]

That game we won but still had the same issue when they attacked fast we had little answer in defence but the conditions didnt allow it, im worried the AB will rib our defence apart, cips got stuck in defencibly but got bumped off a couple of times and went high( like ford but not as well) conditions alowed and he would have added a spark to our attack, but i am still worried.

We deserved the win as we played the conditions better but dry pitch and it would have been alot tighter.

9 youngs was so slow constantly. We had spencer on the bench to speed it up, we had LCD as george wasnt exactly smashing it and simmonds who would have stopped robshaw being at 8 but non were used, yes we won but didnt learn as much as we would have liked.

Mako first choice but needs a bloody good rest to get back to his best and imo genge needs a decent shot off the bench, we know what marler can do.

Going on these are the finishers id like to see as we decided not to use any today

George sinkler genge. Is great impact front row,
Lawes to come back on the bench(or iseikwe)
Simmonds adds something different
Spencer. I like off the bench but god knows about first choice
Loz for me brings alot
Nowell to make impact. With may daly brown starting.

Gone for the bench id like to see after this series,

What about Watson?
Edit: apologies just read the rest of the thread.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I hear you. And in Cricket that plan is going to get a rude awakening as the ICC is looking at abolishing the coin toss ahead of the test and allow the visiting captain to decide on whether to bat or to bowl first.

But in rugby, the issue is that the stadiums aren't as full as it once were, especially in countries like South Africa due to a lot of losses and other factors. The crowd in most stadiums play an integral part in international tests, and try and make it as uncomfortable as possible for the visiting teams. But if it's rainy and muddy, less people will go to the match, and less people will go because they want to see entertaining rugby. All I'm saying is that the venues being selected should be considered for it's maximum potential and consider revenue and attendance.

You're forgetting that maintaining a sport's appeal across the country requires you to play across the country.

Learn from England's mistakes. Unless SARU's got the funding to buy out/build their own stadium - they'd be shooting themselves in the foot by not playing across the SR franchise cities.

 

[TRF_heineken]

You're forgetting that maintaining a sport's appeal across the country requires you to play across the country.

Learn from England's mistakes. Unless SARU's got the funding to buy out/build their own stadium - they'd be shooting themselves in the foot by not playing across the SR franchise cities.

I'm not missing anything. I'm just saying why are we playing games at let's say Newlands in the middle of winter when we all know it's the only stadium in the whole of South Africa that will have a 75% chance of rain as it's the only stadium in a winter rainfall province. All the other stadiums are situated in provinces with summer rainfall. So why not play the games in Newlands during the Rugby Championship? when it's September or October and the chance for rain is much less.

And Bloemfontein hosted the 2nd England game, and was sold out and it's not a SR Franchise city (anymore). Same can be said about PE or Mbombela.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Because Cape Town is an important city, support base wise, no?

 

[unrated]

Because Cape Town is an important city, support base wise, no?

Yes it is. But he is not saying we should stop hosting tests at Cape Town alltogether but rather better organize when we play there such as in the RC instead of June internationals when its rainy season in the Cape.
I agree that it will improve springbok results short term as we will be organizing our venues throughout the year to suit our strenghts. Such as playing in dry or altitude conditions.

But on the other hand we should take advantage of the diverse weather conditions to become a more complete team that are accustomed to the different weather conditions that we might find in other parts of the world. In the end i think the western cape population would like to attend matched other than the RC sides every now and then such as this incoming tour vs England.