[June Tests 2018: 3rd Test] South Africa vs. England (23/06/2018)

[BenJeffrey]

Ben Youngs essentially admitting that having two jackals allowed them to defend and organise better, wonder if Eddie is listening...

 

[bushytop]

Guess Cips will be around for a while longer then.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ben Youngs essentially admitting that having two jackals allowed them to defend and organise better, wonder if Eddie is listening...

Essentially what England need is a double serving of Curry

 

[ratsapprentice]

Essentially what England need is a double serving of Curry

They need Shielding due to their inexperience.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Other lessons learned. Don't interview Jonny May. He's a painful listen.

 

[ncurd]

Cips ultimately did nothing IMO to prove he should play over Ford. Yes it was a moment of brilliance but we've seen Ford do the same.

That said sure start him in the AIs but that has to be with a vision for him to start in the world cup. Being in two minds about starting 10 was part of what got us into so much trouble last time.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Essentially what England need is a double serving of Curry

Chicken and Lamb Bhuna. Boom, boom. I'll get my coat.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Chicken and Lamb Bhuna. Boom, boom. I'll get my coat.

Tandoori and Biriyani, actually

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

Cips ultimately did nothing IMO to prove he should play over Ford. Yes it was a moment of brilliance but we've seen Ford do the same.

That said sure start him in the AIs but that has to be with a vision for him to start in the world cup. Being in two minds about starting 10 was part of what got us into so much trouble last time.

I agree, nothing from Cipriani to suggest he is head and shoulders above Ford in this game. I would like to see him given a few more starts to prove himself with the caveat that his play should be assessed against Fords body of work in the last two seasons for England, rather than his somewhat shakey performance on tour and in the 6N. Ultimately I would like to see us in a position where both players (or possibly Farrell pending other available centre options) are comfortable enough in the system that we can ride the form hand into the 6 nations and be set on a starter for the warm up games.

 

[Jimbo]

Cips ultimately did nothing IMO to prove he should play over Ford. Yes it was a moment of brilliance but we've seen Ford do the same.

That said sure start him in the AIs but that has to be with a vision for him to start in the world cup. Being in two minds about starting 10 was part of what got us into so much trouble last time.

I wouldn't say that, ultimately it wasn't a day for his running game to shine, he didn't try and force it, he did get stuck in physically and was I believe involved in a turn over or two, more than Ford, just Ford seems to have so much credit in the bank he is allowed to consistantly play like ****.

Don't think Cips could have done an awful lot more under the circumstances.

 

[ratsapprentice]

The British press are so fickle... practically bipolar.

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

It's ac

The British press are so fickle... practically bipolar.

It's actually a joke, they ask the "difficult questions" under the guise of maintaing accountability, but very few hold their tune when results turn, regardless of how well the problem areas go. Ultimately they only care about column inches/clicks/views. I even sympathise with EJ having to deal with it, but I suppose that's what generates the money for his salary. I think a genuinely quality rugby media would have a positive impact on the national team.

 

[Fuzzy du Plessis]

Cips ultimately did nothing IMO to prove he should play over Ford. Yes it was a moment of brilliance but we've seen Ford do the same.

Wasn't really the best opportunity for him but I get your point. He's definitely done enough today and over the last 2 years to get a shot in the AIs, but I'm also really keen to see Farrell at 10 with Loz and Te'o/Manu if one of them is actually fit.

 

[ratsapprentice]

It's ac


It's actually a joke, they ask the "difficult questions" under the guise of maintaing accountability, but very few hold their tune when results turn, regardless of how well the problem areas go. Ultimately they only care about column inches/clicks/views. I even sympathise with EJ having to deal with it, but I suppose that's what generates the money for his salary. I think a genuinely quality rugby media would have a positive impact on the national team.

Absolutely.

 

[mdaclarke]

Janjties was awful. I hope that is the last time we see him in a Bok jersey. I think he a player who is great at super rugby level but just not quite good enough at international level. Frustrating but he's had chance after chance.

 

[KanyeWest]

Cips ultimately did nothing IMO to prove he should play over Ford. Yes it was a moment of brilliance but we've seen Ford do the same.

That said sure start him in the AIs but that has to be with a vision for him to start in the world cup. Being in two minds about starting 10 was part of what got us into so much trouble last time.

I agree, nothing from Cipriani to suggest he is head and shoulders above Ford in this game. I would like to see him given a few more starts to prove himself with the caveat that his play should be assessed against Fords body of work in the last two seasons for England, rather than his somewhat shakey performance on tour and in the 6N. Ultimately I would like to see us in a position where both players (or possibly Farrell pending other available centre options) are comfortable enough in the system that we can ride the form hand into the 6 nations and be set on a starter for the warm up games.

I agree with you two guys. Have to say, I didn't notice Cipriani a lot but I certainly noticed Farrell. His voice, his authority, thought he was very good today. In a must win game when the pressure is on, I'd certainly feel more confident having him behind me at 10. He controlled and bossed the game, particularly second half I thought.

Cipriani, I think a lot of it is because people want to say that they were proved right. Had it not been for that kick, and there are very few wingers in the game who would have finished that off, I didn't see enough from him. Great to have in the 23 because if you need a try or you're behind in a match, he's a great guy to have on but I just think that World Cup contenders need a 10 who will bring his team home kicking and screaming in need be in whatever conditions he's in.

Thought England played the conditions much better, the game suited Curry and Robshaw and they made the most of it. Thought those two in the forwards, Farrell and May in the backs had good games.

 

[munstermuffin]

Cips ultimately did nothing IMO to prove he should play over Ford. Yes it was a moment of brilliance but we've seen Ford do the same.

That said sure start him in the AIs but that has to be with a vision for him to start in the world cup. Being in two minds about starting 10 was part of what got us into so much trouble last time.

I think it's more Ford was a much higher rated talent and hit reverse a bit the last 12 month's. When both at peak Ford is better 10 but it's getting Ford to that stage is his issue

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So what do we now know?

1. Marler's our best all round LH. Mako's bench material, but we knew all that. Big shame we didn't get to see Genge.
2. Can't see anything other than Hartley coming back in as captain if injury allows. George failed audition.
3. Sinckler confimed that like Mako he's bench material. Williams is more likely to get the starting shirt, but if Cole's looked after I expect to see him start in Japan.
4. Launch did as Launch does. Will never let you down. Missed a real chance to see what Isiekwe could do.
5. Itoje v mixed. Jones has a real issue there. Lawes & Kruis will come back into equation, but Super Maro's not looking so super at the moment. Guess our locks will all boil down to who's in form at any moment, but overall I think the Saffers showed us that our front 5 should be as big and powerful as possible.
6. Robshaw went OK today, but Eddie's clearly seen the light at last. That's a positive, Shields may be the answer, let's see how he adapts to the NH.
7. Curry's really put the cat among the pidgeons. A proper 7 who will only get better. Got to be in pole position and worth backing.
8. A mess. Binny can, unfortunately, no longer be relied on and Hughes wasn't fit. Hughes can do better than that, but surely Morgan must come back into the fold.
9. Another mess. We need the spiky darting Youngs of a few years ago, not the 2018 version. There must be opportunities for Robson and Spencer to press their cases. Care looks like a specialist finisher.
10. Cips is the man in possession. Give him a run. Ford and Faz are known quantities if he doesn't work.
11. May. Sorted.
12. Faz. No issues. Will be interesting if Teo gets fit and firing as we do need some power in the backs.
13. Didn't quite run for Slade. Guess Joseph's in pole, but we really need a fit Manu.
14. We know Brown's not a winger. Some good touches, some not so good. Feels like the shirt's just being kept warm for Watson.
15. Let's see what Daly can do without the comfort blanket. Brown's always a fall back, shame Woodward didn't get a look in.

Before the tour I said what I really wanted to see were 2 or 3 players really put their hands up for Japan. One - Curry - did. Shields partially did and May cemented his spot. Potential in the Daly FB experiment. But overall more questions than answers.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Really? I get the Ford love I really do but credit where it's due. The main difference is we won. Cipriani was given the worst hand in terms of the conditions and yet in those circumstances he made the telling contribution that in combination with the mentalist May won the game. In my view he also put in a decent defensive effort. He wanted it and it showed.

That said the problems aren't at 10 anyway. On a stodgy track the ultimate stodger came to the fore. Robshaw just plodded through that and does what he does. Curry was exceptional. Hughes was ****. You could play Ben Youngs with any 10 in the world and he's going to make it difficult to shine. Slade is a busted flush we've seen what he can do and it's not enough.

It's a good win against the poorest side the saffers put out this tour. Jantjes had a proper Charlie Hodgson day which helped

Finally Glenn Jackson seemed to be the first ref this series to see through de Klerks cloaking device. That helped too!

 

[Reiser99]

England played a lot better and after silly penalty at the start, they found their discipline. However this definitely wasn't as strong a SA side as the previous two tests, so I really hope EJ goes away and has a serious think about how to address the issues from the first two tests as there were still glimpses of them in this one. Especially around the breakdown.

Front Row: Marler and Sinckler played well, Sinckler especially carried far better. Mako does look like an impact sub, rather than a starting player, especially against a strong front row. Would have like to see Harry Williams on earlier as I don't think he's had a chance to shine this tour. George looks like he might be suffering from too much playing time. Maybe he can find some of the old form with a rest, but looks like Hartley's place isn't under threat. Shame LCD didn't get a chance to play, but I don't think he's in contention anyway.

Locks: Far better, though issues at the line out. Itoje's discipline was far better. Still don't think anyone is a guaranteed starter if Lawes and Kruis come back in form.

Backrow: Still needs work. I've been saying Hughes isn't good enough for a while and especially when not fit. If you have Billy and he's not working, I don't see what else Hughes brings honestly. Robshaw had a better game, but it was a slower game and he's been humiliated recently in fast pace games. Sooner Shields cements his place the better. Curry has had a fantastic tour and now we need to nurture him to be better and not ruin the parts of his game that are already outstanding. Wilson showed that he is a genuine option, but who knows if he'll get another chance.

9&10: Youngs looks a shadow of what he was and is so slow. However with Robson clearly not being picked and Care having a nightmare 6N's who else is there. Why Spencer didn't come on I don't know, because he would have had to be frozen in place to be any slower. Cips played well personally and didn't have much chance to shine, but showed glimpses of what he can do, especially with his kick through. Needs to start in AI's if for no other reason than to keep the pressure on Ford.

Centres: Farrell his usual self, with nothing spectacular except for his kicking from the tee. Awful decision for the drop goal. Slade has blown his chance, which is a shame as I was a big supported of his, but he just hasn't transitioned to international rugby.

Backs: May showed why he needs to be in the team. Still would like to see him go sideways less, but can't have everything. Daly has struggled, but I think he would be a genuine option if he played at 15 for Wasps, which isn't going to happen with Le Roux there. Brown played well, however he has lost his pace. I feel that for the world cup we need him at 15 to secure the high ball, with our faster players on the wing. Oh also Solomona came on, what a pointless sub.