June International Test: Australia vs. England [3rd Test] (25/06/2016)

[InsaneAsylum]

I think the Wallabies had a sense of arrogance in this series that cost them. I don't say that to simply reverse the common accusation thrown at us English but there was a lack of respect. Had the Aussies respected the English and taken 3 points when they were on offer, even with Foleys poor kicking, they could have won. As it was the Aussies went for the lineout time and time and time again thinking they could just get the tries. It's the sort of action teams take in few situations:

1) Their lineout and driving maul is excellent and they have already beaten the team with it
2) They desperately need the 7 points in the dying stages of a game
3) They think they are much better than their opposition and don't need to keep the scoreboard ticking over.

I suspect the Aussies were option 3. We saw the disdain for the England team at the start of the tour and it slowly but surely got stripped away, GAGR for example predicted Aussie wins every single game. I do think the Australian team needs to learn to show a bit more respect to their opposition and not approach the game expecting it to be a walkover.

History would suggest that - I can't remember the last time England beat us on home soil. I looked it up - 2010 and then 2003 before that. In fact, before the start of the tournament, Australia had won 4 times more than England on Australian soil. Then there's recently beating England at Twickenham in the World Cup to knock them out of there own tournament after they had knocked us out of 3 previous world cups. You can see how those two examples helped to build confidence that the Wallabies would do well - instead a vastly different England team turned up.

Disappointing result for us but if I can find a positive, the match in Sydney was great from a spectator point of view.

 

[msf]

History would suggest that - I can't remember the last time England beat us on home soil. I looked it up - 2010 and then 2003 before that. In fact, before the start of the tournament, Australia had won 4 times more than England on Australian soil. Then there's recently beating England at Twickenham in the World Cup to knock them out of there own tournament after they had knocked us out of 3 previous world cups. You can see how those two examples helped to build confidence that the Wallabies would do well - instead a vastly different England team turned up.

Disappointing result for us but if I can find a positive, the match in Sydney was great from a spectator point of view.

If only the Aussies had realised that 2010 was the last time we had played you in Oz. This means that England have won the last 4 matches in Oz. Also, having won 4 more times shouldn´t be a source of over-confidence, it wasn´t an amazing record by any means.

I think the real answer is we purposefully lulled you into a false sense of security by conspiring to hire a coach as mediocre as Lancaster and getting ourselves knocked out in the group stage of our own World Cup. Pretty smart, huh?

 

[InsaneAsylum]

If only the Aussies had realised that 2010 was the last time we had played you in Oz. This means that England have won the last 4 matches in Oz. Also, having won 4 more times shouldn´t be a source of over-confidence, it wasn´t an amazing record by any means.

I think the real answer is we purposefully lulled you into a false sense of security by conspiring to hire a coach as mediocre as Lancaster and getting ourselves knocked out in the group stage of our own World Cup. Pretty smart, huh?

Ha ha I can't really argue with that

I did have a thought though, what if we hadn't sacked Eddie Jones in 2005 and stuck with him until now, where would the Wallabies be?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Ha ha I can't really argue with that

I did have a thought though, what if we hadn't sacked Eddie Jones in 2005 and stuck with him until now, where would the Wallabies be?

Look at Wales for an idea of what happens if you stick with a coach for too long.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Wales have a far smaller catchment than Aussie. There are 37,000 more registered players in Aussie than in Wales.
Gatland is far more limited in what comes his way than any Wallaby coach.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Wales have a far smaller catchment than Aussie. There are 37,000 more registered players in Aussie than in Wales.
Gatland is far more limited in what comes his way than any Wallaby coach.

The limitation is mostly down to garlands game plan which hasn't worked in years. He really needed to swap out his assistant coach every 3 years or something to get some new ideas.

Wales have some great players but it's the game plan that often lets them down.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Yes, but Gatland and his team have been in place for a long time talking to fundamentally the same pool of players. There has to be an element of staleness and "heard it all before". As an Englishman I'm quite happy with that, if I was Welsh I'd be looking for change.

 

[Nubiwan]

History would suggest that - I can't remember the last time England beat us on home soil. I looked it up - 2010 and then 2003 before that. In fact, before the start of the tournament, Australia had won 4 times more than England on Australian soil. Then there's recently beating England at Twickenham in the World Cup to knock them out of there own tournament after they had knocked us out of 3 previous world cups. You can see how those two examples helped to build confidence that the Wallabies would do well - instead a vastly different England team turned up.

Disappointing result for us but if I can find a positive, the match in Sydney was great from a spectator point of view.

That is a fair comment, but I would go a step further and say it was more England not showing up,at their own World Cup, combined with a decent oz performance that day. Fully expected England to beat the Australian side given I watch more SH rugby. I just never rated the oz front 5 and felt England would / should have demolished them. I'd say England were too cocky, if anything, and had a miserable World Cup because of it.

 

[Nubiwan]

yeah all of those - Wallabies need to play smarter Rugby. England proved that you can win games by scoring less trys than your opponent. Wallabies mentality was just "if we score more trys than England we will win"

Foley isn't bad with ball in hand, he was atrocious in Melbourne but improved in Sydney. His kicking game is inadequate though. Having Toomua at 12 took the pressure off Foley's kicking game.

Phipps inaccurate and slow service cost us, Folau is also not a great kicker. if only Phipps has crisp service along the lines of Aaron Smith, and Haylett Petty played at full back, I think that's a much better fit for the Wallabies - trouble is Folau would have to fit in at 13 or 14 as he's far too talented to leave out.

don't get me wrong, I don't think the Wallabies are a basket case - England have improved out of sight in a short space of time, but the Wallabies have a lot of work to do between now and August.

Watched a lot of Phipps in the last few seasons and he is honestly a player who irritates me. Simply a distributor of the ball, and very rarely wil take on the opposition. As such, never a threat. Whatever happened to nick white? Another player who gets under my skin, but mainly because of his tenacity and edge. Perhaps injured, but to me, Phipps is a waste of a 9 shirt and is simply the link between 8 and 10 even in for his provincial side.

been surprised how poor foley has been. He's clearly a better ball in hand 10, but England's defence put end to a lot of that. Hasn't Toomua played a bit of 10. Again though , more of a ball in hand player. Surprised he never got more time in all tests as he has looked sharp in super rugby. Leiliafano (sp) another who I thought offers the oz team a little difference. In the end, oz went more with a like for like in Phipps and Foley, when in the past, it has been their unique approach that has been successful against northern sides. Might be talking a load of bo ll ocks here but just a point of view in retrospect.

if nothing else, it was clear to me how much of a threat Folau was in all three tests. For me, your best back. As for forwards, I hate him, but hooper was his righteous pain in the ass through out. What a great little sh it he can be.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Sorry, not relevant, I just thought it was funny.

 

[Nubiwan]

a few comments on here above predicting the oz chances against the abs, and to be honest, I often go into a bledisloe (sp?) series thinking the abs will wash them out. More often than not, the Australians surprise, at least winning a game and keeping the outcomes tight. Going from memory here, if not statistically accurate. It occurs to me that the Australian sides of the recent past 10-15 years or so, have taken the field believing they can beat the abs, and more often than say England, they have done. It's this belief that separates them from England, who have typically approached abs games in damage limitation mode, at best. Perhaps not in recent years, but no one can convince me English teams expect to beat the abs.

 

[Maverick1987]

That is a fair comment, but I would go a step further and say it was more England not showing up,at their own World Cup, combined with a decent oz performance that day. Fully expected England to beat the Australian side given I watch more SH rugby. I just never rated the oz front 5 and felt England would / should have demolished them. I'd say England were too cocky, if anything, and had a miserable World Cup because of it.

England weren't cocky at their own World Cup imo. They were completely unprepared for the enormity of the stage and when it came to the punch they were under pressure and overwhelmed

 

[ubeefhooked]

Look at it from a bigger picture
Time to get rid of the Force and Rebels to strengthen our other 3 teams. Then hopefully, bolster the Wallabies. Too much competition from other codes in WA and VIC....need to support our rugby strong states. Not enough depth here in Aus for each team which causes us to get more players from overseas e.g. George smith....

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

England weren't cocky at their own World Cup imo. They were completely unprepared for the enormity of the stage and when it came to the punch they were under pressure and overwhelmed

Not to mention badly coached, badly selected and the complete cock up in the physical conditioning....

 

[Maverick1987]

Not to mention badly coached, badly selected and the complete cock up in the physical conditioning....

Well yes but we had had some good results despite this . But you are right the pressure was more the straw that broke the camels back than anything

 

[smartcooky]

Not to mention badly coached, badly selected and the complete cock up in the physical conditioning....

1. Have England actually started the same 12 - 13 pairing for more than two consecutive games in the last 3 years?

2. Why on earth did he select a carthorse like Robshaw at 7

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

1. Have England actually started the same 12 - 13 pairing for more than two consecutive games in the last 3 years?

2. Why on earth did he select a carthorse like Robshaw at 7

Lancaster was all over the place with his centre selections. In the 4 RWC games England played I think 5-6 different centre combos were played. Eddie has been much more consistent though. All but 2 of the centre combos he's picked so far has been Faz-JJ (And Faz wasn't available for 1 of those 2).

To be fair to Lancaster on Robshaw at 7, there weren't many better options. Obviously Kvesic had a claim but he was 23 when Lancaster was dethroned, so still very young, and I don't think he was ready. Robshaw at 7 was far from ideal, but Lancaster did have to work with an English system notorious for not being able to breed any natural open sides.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Agreed Toby but Haskell and Robshaw were available to Lancaster and didn't look anywhere near the players they have done under Jones. CR isn't a natural leader and captaincy weighed very heavily on him particularly in the RWC. Meanwhile the bloke who has just captained us to a GS and a series win down under was banished from the RWC for nodding at someone. Leadership - on and off the pitch- counts for so much.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Also under Lancaster no attempt was made to find an openside to replace Robshaw. Lots of people were shouting for Kvesic, or Fraser etc to at least be given a chance. Maybe the stocks weren't great but it was a fairly obvious deficiency and Lancaster didn't make any attempt to fix it.

 

[Raggs]

Haskell actually looked very good in the RWC warmup games, best forward of the pack. Those performances got him dropped from the team for the real thing for the most part.

Mullan was scrumming with Lawes behind him, Lawes is the weakest scrummager in the England side.