Ireland vs France - 09/03/2013

[big ginger 8]

Ireland vs France

Sorry can't keep posting in the Scotland thread maybe a mod can fix it up.

Some fantastic new Kidney has actually dropped RO'G it shouldn't have come to this with any legacy he had getting a real battering with his performances but he's gone now. Madigan's been called up.

Ireland Squad:

Rory Best (Ulster)
Sean Cronin (Leinster)
Robbie Diack (Ulster)
Keith Earls (Munster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Ulster)
Craig Gilroy (Ulster)
Cian Healy (Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Leinster)
Iain Henderson (Ulster)
Paddy Jackson (Ulster)
David Kearney (Leinster)
Rob Kearney (Leinster)
David Kilcoyne (Munster)
Ian Madigan (Leinster)
Luke Marshall (Ulster)
MIke McCarthy (Connacht)
Fergus McFadden (Leinster)
Conor Murray (Munster)
Sean O'Brien (Leinster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster)
Tommy O'Donnell (Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster)
Peter O'Mahony (Munster)
Eoin O'Malley (Leinster)
Eoin Reddan (Leinster)
Mike Ross (Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Munster)
Jonathan Sexton (Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ulster)
Devin Toner (Leinster)
Dan Tuohy (Ulster)

Really progressive for Kidney.

 

[Peat]

I know he's not got a chance in hell of playing, but I am laughing like mad at Diack's name there.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

To give the outgoing coach his due, it is a progressive squad. Five uncapped players:

Robbie Diack (Ulster)
David Kearney (Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Leinster)
Tommy O'Donnell (Munster)
Eoin O'Malley (Leinster)

I'm happy for Robbie Diack who has improved out of sight this season. Dave Kearney has come into some form, Ian Madigan has been exceptional for the last season or more and Tommy O'Donnell has stepped up for Munster. Surprised Eoin O'Malley is there but I suspect it's due to the unavailability of Gordon D'arcy, Darren Cave and Robbie Henshaw.

The main talking point is obviously the omission of Ronan O'Gara. While it's a shame to see his international career end this way, it's entirely down to his form and his decision to play on this season. It's very likely that that decision was made for reasons outside rugby (which really aren't anyone else's business but have been well reported in the press). I'm glad he's out of the squad from a purely rugby perspective.

If I were Rob Penney, I'd turf Simon Mannix out on his ear for crimes against backline coaching and get both O'Gara and Doug Howlett involved with coaching that part of the team next season.

 

[Getofmeland]

Aviva Stadium, Ireland
17:00, 09/03/13​

​

 

[munstermuffin]

For what it worth Snoop Doug will have backs next year

 

[Amiga500]

Surprised at the dropping of Tom Court.

The scrum wasn't doing great when he was on... but disintegrated once he went off.

 

[Big Ewis]

We're gonna CRUSH YOU !!!! :lol:

 

[munstermuffin]

Surprised at the dropping of Tom Court.

The scrum wasn't doing great when he was on... but disintegrated once he went off.

To be honest I think it simply Kilcoyne offers alot more impact off bench and Healy is always going to start so Court isn't required. I don't think Kilcoyne can be singled out for scrum issues so makes sense to have him ahead of Court on bench as I think he offers the better option of impact. Again if Healy was out I'd have kept Court starting. Court doesn't offer impact so if he's not starting it makes sense.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It was the right decision to drop O'Gara, hardly what I would consider fantastic news though. I'm quite upset by it, I know it had to come but that doesn't change the fact that our best 10 of the professional era so far (Sexton needs to achieve something with Ireland to overtake) is gone and in such a bad way.

 

[psychic duck]

It was the right decision to drop O'Gara, hardly what I would consider fantastic news though. I'm quite upset by it, I know it had to come but that doesn't change the fact that our best 10 of the professional era so far (Sexton needs to achieve something with Ireland to overtake) is gone and in such a bad way.

If you Humphreys and O'Gara swapped provinces then in my opinion people would see Humphreys ahead of O'Gara as Ireland's best 10 of the pro era.

Just a shame for Humphreys that he didn't play in the finest Ulster team, and at a time where the success O'Gara had with Munster's golden era of players played a big part in his selection.

 

[Teh Mite]

Kidneys loyalty to him hasn't hurt his selections over the past few seasons either despite the Limerick to Dublin power-shift.

 

[lynam1104]

Happy with the squad. It's a shame ROG had to go out like this it's his and Kideny's own fault. Madigan's performances over the lat few weeks have have really warranted his inclusion hope he gets on the bench.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

http://www.therugbyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?30322-Ireland-vs-France-09-03-2013

 

[munstermuffin]

Not complaining about ROG being dropped but my issue is he was poor vs Scarlets but was on bench then played well against Ospreys and is dropped. But also if Sexton doesn't make it then it a major gamble having 2 novice 10s in game.
And Duck I'd disagree about Humps comments as he had games with these Munster lads in green and was with a good Ulster squad too. And ROG was 1 of the players that pulled Munster in to being golden era but his individual performances in gettin scores at vital times were what made him a great. May I add though Madigan deserves the call up and think he is man out of all in best form

 

[Big Ewis]

France...by 8.

 

[munstermuffin]

Why have we 2 threads in this game

 

[lynam1104]

BG8 started the other yesterday I think. This is the official one, I assume they'll be merged at some point.

 

[psychic duck]

And Duck I'd disagree about Humps comments as he had games with these Munster lads in green and was with a good Ulster squad too. And ROG was 1 of the players that pulled Munster in to being golden era but his individual performances in gettin scores at vital times were what made him a great.

I'll start off with saying I thought at his best O'Gara was a good player. But not Ireland's best in the professional era.

People keep going on about his trophy cabinet and honours, which is very impressive, and saying that Ireland wouldn't have won in 2009 without him or Munster without him. But do you really think if Sexton or Humphreys had played in that Munster team that they would have still been regularly in the knockout stages and won the trophies. In fact, if you consider that neither of them would have to been babysitted in defence, and in Sexton's case a better attacker then Munster would have been even better.

Also you say Ulster had a good squad when Humphreys was there. But they were not at all comparable to Munster's. They had their moments, but those were fleeting and by and large apart from that they were poor. An the very small amount of Ulster players that were in the Ireland team for the first half of the 2000's reflects this. Contrast this to Munster who had nearly the entire Ireland pack at one stage.

Humphreys was unfortunate that he played most of his career with a struggling Ireland side in the 1990's, and with a poor Ulster side, and when he did get the chance with the new generation from Ireland he was impressive and could do everything as good as O'Gara could plus being able to defend better as well (which isn't hard). O'Gara was just fortunate enough to play in better sides than Humphreys did, he was by no means a better player.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Szarsweski has been ruled out, with Guirado called up in his place.

(Anyone having to write about this game likes this)

Previously, Médard and Vahaamahina were called up instead of Fall and Suta.

The squad is:
Debaty
Domingo
Kayser
Guirado
Mas
Ducalcon
Maestri
Samson
Vahaamahina
Nyanga
Dusautoir
Picamoles
Claassen
Parra
Machenaud
Michalak
Trinh-Duc
Fofana
Bastareaud
Fritz
Médard
Clerc
Huget

We're likely to see a loose trio and a back three made purely of Toulouse players. The squad will, in all likelihood look like:
Domingo, Kayser, Mas
Maestri, Samson
Nyanga, Picamoles, Dusautoir
Parra, Trinh-Duc
Médard, Fofana, Fritz (Bastareaud), Clerc
Huget.

Bench:
Guirado, Debaty, Ducalcon, Vahaamahina, Claassen, Machenaud, Michalak, Bastareaud (Fritz)

I don't see PSA changing the halfback pairing after the England game, while the only 50-50 calls are at 13 and who will play 11 and 15 between Médard and Huget.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'll start off with saying I thought at his best O'Gara was a good player. But not Ireland's best in the professional era.

People keep going on about his trophy cabinet and honours, which is very impressive, and saying that Ireland wouldn't have won in 2009 without him or Munster without him. But do you really think if Sexton or Humphreys had played in that Munster team that they would have still been regularly in the knockout stages and won the trophies. In fact, if you consider that neither of them would have to been babysitted in defence, and in Sexton's case a better attacker then Munster would have been even better.

Also you say Ulster had a good squad when Humphreys was there. But they were not at all comparable to Munster's. They had their moments, but those were fleeting and by and large apart from that they were poor. An the very small amount of Ulster players that were in the Ireland team for the first half of the 2000's reflects this. Contrast this to Munster who had nearly the entire Ireland pack at one stage.

Humphreys was unfortunate that he played most of his career with a struggling Ireland side in the 1990's, and with a poor Ulster side, and when he did get the chance with the new generation from Ireland he was impressive and could do everything as good as O'Gara could plus being able to defend better as well (which isn't hard). O'Gara was just fortunate enough to play in better sides than Humphreys did, he was by no means a better player.

But it was temperment and I think Humps played with decent teams and was a good player but think with regards teams he has played with as well has having good international teams that he totally underachieved and ROG is a much better player. And ROG rescued alot of games for Ireland in days when Humphreys disappeared when he had chances. By and large you make your own luck and the day ROG got the drop goal to win it in Cardiff (not the day of Grand Slam) it was Humphreys that disappeared that day and had a tendency to do it.

With regards Sexton, the argument could be same as ROG would he be as good if he didn't have that team around him? But fact is he is a superb player and if he achieves with Ireland he will overtake ROG but I don't think any will ever be as good as ROG in terms of kicking tactically and to corners and at goal under pressure. Also think Sexton is still too early to be judged but don't think Humphreys even comes into the equation.