A Political Thread pt. 2

[Mallow]

Such a noble man. He grew a conscience just as we're about to kick him out the door.

 

[Reiser99]

Nah, it was more he couldn't get any hookers as he couldn't pay them without looking them in the face.

 

[Saintjay]

And he wants to tap up Angela Rayner for her accountants details.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Trump VP contender Kristi Noem defends killing her dog

South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem recalls shooting a dog and a goat in a soon-to-be released memoir.

www.bbc.co.uk

Potential Trump VP quite happily chatting about how she shot and killed both her family dog and goat for their bad behaviour, completely failing to see the common denominator. Republicans are literally at the stage of supporting people who boast about murdering their own pets, without letting their children know it was going to happen...

 

[Welsh Exile]

Trump VP contender Kristi Noem defends killing her dog

South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem recalls shooting a dog and a goat in a soon-to-be released memoir.

www.bbc.co.uk

Potential Trump VP quite happily chatting about how she shot and killed both her family dog and goat for their bad behaviour, completely failing to see the common denominator. Republicans are literally at the stage of supporting people who boast about murdering their own pets, without letting their children know it was going to happen...

The Democratic National Committee said: "If you want elected officials who don't brag about brutally killing their pets... vote Democrat."

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/28/ireland-looking-to-send-asylum-seekers-back-to-uk-report

Westminster finally finding a use for NI, a plantation of sorts too.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Genuine question:
Is going from UK -> Ireland any different from France -> UK?

Obviously the Rwanda plan is hogshit, and the Tories are trying to make the country as unwelcoming and toxic as possible so this is a relatively new development, but we've had years of people saying asylum seekers have every right to travel to the UK to claim asylum (which they do), so why is it different now that they're going to Ireland instead?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/28/ireland-looking-to-send-asylum-seekers-back-to-uk-report

Westminster finally finding a use for NI, a plantation of sorts too.

This is one of a very few cases where I actually agree with the UK government and the EU is showing crass hypocrisy. We have been told that it is wrong for us to ship people back to France, so how would it be any less wrong for them to be sent back from Ireland to the UK? It would be a complete double standard for the EU to say it's not ok for the UK to ship migrants back to the EU (France) but it's perfectly ok for the EU to ship them back to the UK.

 

[Reiser99]

This is one of a very few cases where I actually agree with the UK government and the EU is showing crass hypocrisy. We have been told that it is wrong for us to ship people back to France, so how would it be any less wrong for them to be sent back from Ireland to the UK? It would be a complete double standard for the EU to say it's not ok for the UK to ship migrants back to the EU (France) but it's perfectly ok for the EU to ship them back to the UK.

True, but if you're going to play this game and use migrants and refugees as a political weapon to galvanise support then you can't be can't act surprised when it happens to you.

I definitely don't see the UK as some kind of victim here, but that both sides suck for continuing to use migrants and refugees as political weapons rather than actually discussing and fixing the issue properly.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Genuine question:
Is going from UK -> Ireland any different from France -> UK?

Obviously the Rwanda plan is hogshit, and the Tories are trying to make the country as unwelcoming and toxic as possible so this is a relatively new development, but we've had years of people saying asylum seekers have every right to travel to the UK to claim asylum (which they do), so why is it different now that they're going to Ireland instead?

"What it shows, I think, is that the deterrent is … already having an impact because people are worried about coming here,"

That's pretty rotten to the core isn't it? We've taken in refugees far more openly than the UK in recent years, it's taking a major toll. Now asylum seekers land there and have are encouraged to come here instead of being sent to Rwanda. And they're happy to use their most neglected territory as a land bridge for this to happen.

This is one of a very few cases where I actually agree with the UK government and the EU is showing crass hypocrisy. We have been told that it is wrong for us to ship people back to France, so how would it be any less wrong for them to be sent back from Ireland to the UK? It would be a complete double standard for the EU to say it's not ok for the UK to ship migrants back to the EU (France) but it's perfectly ok for the EU to ship them back to the UK.

This is nothing to do with the EU, Ireland aren't in Schengen so it's not an EU border. It's Westminster taking advantage of the GFA in a total disregard for human welfare.

 

[Mallow]

"What it shows, I think, is that the deterrent is … already having an impact because people are worried about coming here,"

That's pretty rotten to the core isn't it? We've taken in refugees far more openly than the UK in recent years, it's taking a major toll. Now asylum seekers land there and have are encouraged to come here instead of being sent to Rwanda. And they're happy to use their most neglected territory as a land bridge for this to happen.



This is nothing to do with the EU, Ireland aren't in Schengen so it's not an EU border. It's Westminster taking advantage of the GFA in a total disregard for human welfare.

I don't really think anyone has the answers. I'm not against immigration, taking refugees etc, but it's pretty difficult for any country to take such a high consistent volume of people without causing issues. Particularly when we have a government that's consistently failed for the last 14 plus years to provide for what it already has.

I don't envy anyone trying to sort this out tbf.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

"What it shows, I think, is that the deterrent is … already having an impact because people are worried about coming here,"

That's pretty rotten to the core isn't it? We've taken in refugees far more openly than the UK in recent years, it's taking a major toll. Now asylum seekers land there and have are encouraged to come here instead of being sent to Rwanda. And they're happy to use their most neglected territory as a land bridge for this to happen.

Absolutely is rotten, no arguments there - but why is them passing through Greece/Italy/France on the way any different to the final hop from the UK to Ireland?

France try to make themselves as inhospitable as possible, and the UK is supposed to just lump it - despite paying France half a billion pounds to strengthen the border, and them just waving off/escorting boats into UK waters for us to deal with


As above: it's an impossible situation to deal with and would require near global co-operation to make a manageable solution, at the moment everyone is just trying to pass the buck along to the next guy because the numbers are so unmanageable.
The UK being made out to be the big bad in this simply for doing exactly what everyone else is doing is crazy talk

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

This is nothing to do with the EU, Ireland aren't in Schengen so it's not an EU border. It's Westminster taking advantage of the GFA in a total disregard for human welfare.

I stand corrected on that front but the principle remains the same, why is it ok for France to refuse to take back asylum seekers but not ok for us to do likewise?

I don't support the Rwanda plan but this is about people being sent back to other European countries and it should be a consistent rule. It can't only be wrong for us.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Humza Yousaf to resign as Scotland's first minister

The BBC understands the SNP leader is to step down days after ending an agreement with the Scottish Greens.

www.bbc.co.uk

Entirely of his own doing, verging on Truss levels of incompetence

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Absolutely is rotten, no arguments there - but why is them passing through Greece/Italy/France on the way any different to the final hop from the UK to Ireland?

France try to make themselves as inhospitable as possible, and the UK is supposed to just lump it - despite paying France half a billion pounds to strengthen the border, and them just waving off/escorting boats into UK waters for us to deal with


As above: it's an impossible situation to deal with and would require near global co-operation to make a manageable solution, at the moment everyone is just trying to pass the buck along to the next guy because the numbers are so unmanageable.
The UK being made out to be the big bad in this simply for doing exactly what everyone else is doing is crazy talk

I have two issues, one is the use (and active encouragement to use) NI in all of this, the asylum seekers would be processed correctly if coming directly from the UK as there's customs checks going from there to here. It's a bit like the Tories getting the DUP in to get a hard brexit over the line, using the region when convenient and happily allowing the people there have far less opportunity than most of those in the UK and in the rest of Ireland.

The Irish question > Troubles > Brexit pawns > Conveyor belt of the unfortunate. How the **** is that any way to treat a region.

The second is the use of the GFA and recent UK "political" influence in this country. We can't put checks between the Derry, Tyrone, Fermanagh, Armagh, and Down and Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan, Sligo and Louth. It spits in the face of the GFA that the UK has desperately tried to undermine during Brexit and is now happy to use in this manner. In addition Westminster will be acutely aware of the rising far right movement here fuelled by their best and brightest in the likes of Tommy Robinson and Farage.

They also know that we're more or less at capacity for refugees, 1000s are being provided with tents while waiting for adequate dwellings because at the beginning of the recent crisis Ireland were for more welcoming of refugees than the UK were. Ireland would welcome these people if we could which has never been the UK's stance.

The timing of this surrounding the Rwanda act screams that it's been encouraged and pre meditated to me also. I'm not French or German and don't attest to what they do but this is typical of the UK and sweeping their own domestic issues into our driveway rather than addressing them at source (or with a shred of humanity).

I stand corrected on that front but the principle remains the same, why is it ok for France to refuse to take back asylum seekers but not ok for us to do likewise?

I don't support the Rwanda plan but this is about people being sent back to other European countries and it should be a consistent rule. It can't only be wrong for us.

Think the above covers this also.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I appreciate all of that, but the UK has a hard border with France and it didn't stop them getting this far, why would a hard border with Ireland be any different?
The crux of it seems to be the assumption that the government is actively engaging in this rather than just celebrating it - if they were smart/competent enough to try and sweep the migration problem onto Ireland's doorstep they'd have been doing it for the last 14 years

They also know that we're more or less at capacity for refugees, 1000s are being provided with tents while waiting for adequate dwellings because at the beginning of the recent crisis Ireland were for more welcoming of refugees than the UK were.

This isn't unique to Ireland, the UK numbers last year were very high (and almost 7 times Irish numbers) and are about to be dwarfed by this year

In addition Westminster will be acutely aware of the rising far right movement here fuelled by their best and brightest in the likes of Tommy Robinson and Farage.

I mean this is a significant issue in the UK, and realistically most of the west, with groups out of America fermenting and funding all of this, it's not unique to Ireland

 

[Reiser99]

Here's a different take. There isn't a migration issue at, there is a political and media narrative to make it an issue when it's not.

 

[Saintjay]

As far as I'm aware there's a considerable amount of anti-immigration feeling in Ireland. With protests and ill feeling after the stabbings at a school last year. It is most certainly a political issue. Tighter immigration controls are increasing across the EU. Amazing how welcoming everyone is until it becomes a problem.

I might be nieve here but if they have a legitimate claim I'd hope people wouldn't be sent to Rwanda. If they are legitimate and choose to transition through the UK onto Ireland then that's there choice. No different to having transitioned through Europe. Clearly Ireland needs to take this up with France and the other transit countries as well.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

As far as I'm aware there's a considerable amount of anti-immigration feeling in Ireland. With protests and ill feeling after the stabbings at a school last year. It is most certainly a political issue. Tighter immigration controls are increasing across the EU. Amazing how welcoming everyone is until it becomes a problem.

I might be nieve here but if they have a legitimate claim I'd hope people wouldn't be sent to Rwanda. If they are legitimate and choose to transition through the UK onto Ireland then that's there choice. No different to having transitioned through Europe. Clearly Ireland needs to take this up with France and the other transit countries as well.

Most charitable policies begin to fall apart when strained. Whilst the EU and Europe wants to portray itself as a bastion of progressiveness and good-will, people are fundamentally selfish and are charitable as long as it doesn't impact their own lives.

Europe as a whole (EU and non-EU) needs a coordinated policy on asylum seekers. In theory every person living in war torn or oppressive regimes could claim asylum and, with the best will in the world, there is no way any system could survive that.

 

[McTallshort]

I'm working in Wexford this week and County Antrim next. On my way to the ferry port now....hope they let us in!