Ireland v New Zealand (13/11)

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ireland teasing out the team announcement isn't a great sign. Big injury announcement likely!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ireland teasing out the team announcement isn't a great sign. Big injury announcement likely!

Sexton is overdue his annual concussion

 

[big ginger 8]

Ireland teasing out the team announcement isn't a great sign. Big injury announcement likely!

The press have all been saying Farrell is due to announce the team 'this afternoon' so he's just taking lunchtime to new heights of vagueness hopefully.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Sexton is overdue his annual concussion

If this happens I'll kill you and then myself with Johnny's samurai sword.

 

[Groundhog]

If this happens I'll kill you and then myself with Johnny's samurai sword.

Olly would love to die like a weeb, don't give him the satisfaction.

 

[munstermuffin]

2 changes. Henderson starts Beirne on bench. Herring on bench Sheehan gone.

Not annoyed but wow this team is underwhelming. Feel for Beirne as he has been 1 of our best players consistently for last 18 months.
No point bulling about JGP, Lowe, Conway etc because fact is despite me thinking this will seriously show a few of them up. There is no guarantee the alternatives would improve and well when you start it up to you to hold that jersey and well noone was poor last week.

Big fears are loose Sexton early and it is big trouble, loose a centre and we just tog in. In the forwards the reserve frontrow scares me a little and well if we chasing the game it not a frontrow I'd back to come in and claw it back. But again no guarantee alternatives would either.

My major worry is we seem to have very poor depth outside the back 5 of pack.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

2 changes. Henderson starts Beirne on bench. Herring on bench Sheehan gone.

Not annoyed but wow this team is underwhelming. Feel for Beirne as he has been 1 of our best players consistently for last 18 months.
No point bulling about JGP, Lowe, Conway etc because fact is despite me thinking this will seriously show a few of them up. There is no guarantee the alternatives would improve and well when you start it up to you to hold that jersey and well noone was poor last week.

Big fears are loose Sexton early and it is big trouble, loose a centre and we just tog in. In the forwards the reserve frontrow scares me a little and well if we chasing the game it not a frontrow I'd back to come in and claw it back. But again no guarantee alternatives would either.

My major worry is we seem to have very poor depth outside the back 5 of pack.

I'd argue we have serious depth at backrow and centre of used correctly. Back three isn't great but we're two players deep in each position without a massive drop off.

Seperately, there's a lot of optimism around Irish rugby right now, I think we'll come crashing down to earth on Saturday. NZ by 15+.

 

[Groundhog]

I am disappointed for Beirne. He's not put a foot wrong. A top quality player was always going to lose out though I suppose. I predict we will win and then get brought crashing down in the 6 Nations actually

 

[munstermuffin]

I'd argue we have serious depth at backrow and centre of used correctly. Back three isn't great but we're two players deep in each position without a massive drop off.

Seperately, there's a lot of optimism around Irish rugby right now, I think we'll come crashing down to earth on Saturday. NZ by 15+.

Backrow I agree. That what I am saying. Plenty there.
Centre. Aki, Ringrose and Henshaw. After that we may have alot but none are proven or at a top level.
Back 3 - Keenan is Rob Kearney style and will do certainly. Wingers. We don't have 1 real world class finisher like alot of average to good but none that are like wow.
Stockdale was the huge hope buy lost his way a bit.

On Saturday - I agree it may be a scary conclusion. Joey Carbery and Tadhg Beirne (30 in January) are the only 2 lads on bench under 30.

 

[munstermuffin]

I am disappointed for Beirne. He's not put a foot wrong. A top quality player was always going to lose out though I suppose. I predict we will win and then get brought crashing down in the 6 Nations actually

Beirne has been excellent. James Ryan has been poor the past 18 months but Tadhg probably is better off the bench than Ryan and has form as well as versatility.

 

[jcahill1]

I thought Ryan has been significantly better for Leinster this year to be honest. Not as noticeable as he once was but quietly good. Nowhere close to Beirnes pre lions form in fairness which was unbelievable. We'll see how this pair go on Saturday anyway.

 

[big ginger 8]

At least Beirne gives us some genuine impact on the bench. The rest of the guys are good players but where they are now, not who you want of you're losing. Understand the Herring call but would have love the added impact of Sheehan.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Few questions...

1. I thought Sam Cane was a banker, whos this new openside and what is he like? Same for blindside
2. How has the Rieko at 13 effort been progressing?
3. Is McKenzie usually just involved in tier 2 games now?

Just my impressions of course

1. Canes has only just come back from long term injury, paps was the form open side in surgery rugby, Blackadder has been fighting it out with akira for the 6 jersey, I think this just comes down to akira might need a break?

2. I think he is a better 11 but our midfield has been very limp so they are trying to give it some firepower

3. No, but Jordie is the clear fav at 15 so there just isn't the room for dmac

This is pretty accuarate. I'd add:

McKenzie has struggled a bit under the high ball and Jordie is our best in that regard, so jordie has won the starting role because of his performances against the springboks under the hugh ball. Prior to that mckenzie was slightly preferred but it was pretty much 50 50. He has often been in the bench when Jordie has started, but that hasn't really given the best mix in terms of injury cover, and he didn't play as well as one would have hoped against Italy.

Rieko is not the finished product at 13, has started a few tests this year but if late has mostly started in the wing then moved in to centre at the end of the game. His defence can still be off at times and he doesn't have all blacks level passing skills. Alb is more of an off loader than a spiral passer too so it's not the greatest combo for getting the ball wide. But no other centre in the world can take an outside break like rieko. As we've been struggling to make inroads in the midfield against rush defence, the coaches are clearly trying something different. They probably were planning to pick tupaea as their something different, but he wasn't great with the rush defence last week either.

I thought they might play cane in the bench to continue his reintegration but that wouldn't have been a very balanced loose forward quadruple. Ethan Blackadder, the son of Todd, was the best forward in super rugby in what was pretty much his first year. He was originally playing in the games against the minnows and in the bench in the top games but has kept impressing and has gradually made his way to the starting lineup for the top team, starting against wales and now ireland. He has a range of skills and a big engine. Papalii is a very strong dude who does the dirty work, os very good at the breakdownis a strong tackler, good in the mauls, carries well, as has been said was the best seven in super rugby (and probably the second best forward after Blackadder) and incredibly consistent. He has been first choice at seven all year when not injured or returning from injury. But he won't keep cane out of the side once he's back to full fitness.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Its kinda mad TJ flaps is still starting for you blokes. He's pretty damn average these days.

wont get any argument, i wold have started christie

 

[NZbloke]

....this is quite possibly the first time i have heard someone purport that smith is anything short of a light year ahead of the other halfbacks in every facet...at least for several years...so im not sure how to respond

surely you see a difference between having to fly someone in as injury cover, someone that MAY have to slot into a team with little to no training...and planning a tour where you can manage blooding someone new and green...there is a huge difference between picking a bolter that then spends a few weeks with the team before playing...and jetting one in to potentially play fresh of the plane

You've got to be kidding me... tell me all the other areas where Smith is so much better than our other halfbacks other than his passing ?

Come on, if you're sending a player over as cover at least you want that player to have match fitness... the chances of that 9 playing is very slim with only two games remaining, if we do get a halfback injury & that player has to play in the last test they will be on the bench anyway.

 

[NZbloke]

Would've had Akira Ioane at 6, he's far more explosive & quicker than a solid type of player like Blackadder - also had Havili over Rieko Ioane, who gets caught out too much in defence in the midfield.
We're really lacking that fast link player at 7, with the whole squad we have to choose from I'd slot Ardie Savea in at 7.

 

[Five Meters Out]

Few questions...

1. I thought Sam Cane was a banker, whos this new openside and what is he like? Same for blindside
2. How has the Rieko at 13 effort been progressing?
3. Is McKenzie usually just involved in tier 2 games now?

I don't think Canes completely over his injury or anywhere near ready.
Openside is Ethan Blackadder and he reminds me of a Josh Kronfeld type player - if you can recall him.
I reckon Reiko is learning 13 - but that never comes quickly. It's a mater of getting all your best players on the field and those two wingers are too good to leave out.
McKenzie just doesn't look suited to Northern Hemisphere (and Sth African) "biff bash" games. I'd go as far to say "he's too small".

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I don't think Canes completely over his injury or anywhere near ready.
Openside is Ethan Blackadder and he reminds me of a Josh Kronfeld type player - if you can recall him.
I reckon Reiko is learning 13 - but that never comes quickly. It's a mater of getting all your best players on the field and those two wingers are too good to leave out.
McKenzie just doesn't look suited to Northern Hemisphere (and Sth African) "biff bash" games. I'd go as far to say "he's too small".

Blackadder is playing blindside. And cane is over his injury as far as i know, but he's played two and a half games of rugby all year, so he doesn't have match fitness.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Would've had Akira Ioane at 6, he's far more explosive & quicker than a solid type of player like Blackadder - also had Havili over Rieko Ioane, who gets caught out too much in defence in the midfield.
We're really lacking that fast link player at 7, with the whole squad we have to choose from I'd slot Ardie Savea in at 7.

Nothing wrong with that thought process but it's easy to see the selectors thought process too.

They are rewarding form, and giving people opportunities. Blackadder has performed well at every opportunity and akira didn't pass the springbok tests with flying colours so now is ethans chance in a big match. If he fails then akira or someone else might come back in. As for the seven, well I've always said ardie should be at seven but at the end of the day the number on the shirt doesn't matter, different teams will give different roles to their sevens and it will depend on the makeup of the trio. The all blacks don't always have their seven as a link player. Papaliis role in the trio is to focus on the breakdown, especially on attack, allowing the others to utilize their ball skills and running game. A Very different role to your Wellington seven for example (on attack I mean).

I think most people agree that the havili alb combo isn't ideal, but there is no clear alternative. They are trying alb ione because they did well at the end of the wales game, but yeah that's not a proven combo either. It's not clear what they should have done in this space really, as no one has put their hands up against rush defence.

Edit: rieko reading the multiple options sexton always has up his sleeve is going to be a challenge for him no doubt.

 

[NZbloke]

Nothing wrong with that thought process but it's easy to see the selectors thought process too.

They are rewarding form, and giving people opportunities. Blackadder has performed well at every opportunity and akira didn't pass the springbok tests with flying colours so now is ethans chance in a big match. If he fails then akira or someone else might come back in. As for the seven, well I've always said ardie should be at seven but at the end of the day the number on the shirt doesn't matter, different teams will give different roles to their sevens and it will depend on the makeup of the trio. The all blacks don't always have their seven as a link player. Papaliis role in the trio is to focus on the breakdown, especially on attack, allowing the others to utilize their ball skills and running game. A Very different role to your Wellington seven for example (on attack I mean).

I think most people agree that the havili alb combo isn't ideal, but there is no clear alternative. They are trying alb ione because they did well at the end of the wales game, but yeah that's not a proven combo either. It's not clear what they should have done in this space really, as no one has put their hands up against rush defence.

Edit: rieko reading the multiple options sexton always has up his sleeve is going to be a challenge for him no doubt.

Yeah, fair points - reckon they were pretty harsh on Arika though, if they were going to drop him for that game against the Boks they could've easily dropped a lot of the others that didn't play well in that game too... with the fast pace game the ABs play would much rather have an very athletic loose forward trio involved.

All loose forwards are good at the breakdown close in... honestly the way the law is at the breakdown is pretty easy to win a penalty there, if an opposition player gets isolated for a second, the bloke from the other side only has to lean over place his hands around him, ball & all, so the poor bloke on the ground has no chance whatsoever of releasing it, same for all sides I suppose, that why it's so important to have enough numbers to clean & blow past the ball knocking their players out the way at the breakdown to keep possession.

Rieko only played against a Welsh B team, so there wasn't a lot of pressure applied on him in that match... this game is going to be much harder, so lets see how well he defends in the midfield in this one.